More Regulation Incoming! - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Who is John Galt?

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Quote from: Bushdark on July 10, 2023, 04:41:59 PM

I think this is one of the things that the Binance is struggling with now and it is making things hard for them. The SEC is currently not smiling and had been in a contention with both Binance and Coinbase and I think Coinbase is planning to leave the US if things does not tlstoll work out the way it ought to. The SEC had been very strict currently fighting against illegal and unregistered exchanges and cryptocurrency projects that is not abiding by the rules that is regulating them. I hope more of these regulations will not be enforced by the government of other countries against cryptocurrency exchanges and projects.

The government cannot actually regulate bitcoin because it is decentralized. Therefore, it will regulate what it is very familiar with, centralized companies, among which are CEXs like Binance or Coinbase. And I wouldn't bet a farthing that governments (short of some offshore financial centres) won't heavily regulate centralized companies that are intermediaries for decentralized projects like bitcoin.

Bushdark

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Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 05, 2023, 09:29:17 PM

@zasad@. Yes, not yet at present. However, if a project is declared as a security, it would be forced to either leave the American jurisdiction or register with the US SEC for compliance which, under securities laws, might force those projects to use government approved custodians and transfer agents.

This important information is presently being left unnoticed by much of the people in the cryptospace and it will be the most damaging on the greatest innovation that decentralized ledgers and database has brought us.

I think this is one of the things that the Binance is struggling with now and it is making things hard for them. The SEC is currently not smiling and had been in a contention with both Binance and Coinbase and I think Coinbase is planning to leave the US if things does not tlstoll work out the way it ought to. The SEC had been very strict currently fighting against illegal and unregistered exchanges and cryptocurrency projects that is not abiding by the rules that is regulating them. I hope more of these regulations will not be enforced by the government of other countries against cryptocurrency exchanges and projects.

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 25, 2023, 10:05:53 PM

@zasad@. Witnessing what has happened within 2 weeks, it appears not to be the case with Gary Gensler as the head of the SEC. I warn not to underestimate where Gensler wants to go in his crackdown against the cryptospace. We might have forgotten that Ethereum's founders had their own ICO from July 14, 2014 to September 2, 2014.

This information can be used as part of the SEC's fear tactics in implying that Ethereum might be an illegal security.

"The tail does not wag the dog" (C)
I said that ethereum is an exception to all the rules, and very influential world banks and corporations are behind this project.
So far, there are no coin registries in the US that say which coin is a product and which stock it is, but Ethereum has more chances to survive than all projects that had an ICO. Even if there is a fine, the fine will be related to the amount of money collected for the ICO. And this is a very ridiculous amount for such a project.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@zasad@. Witnessing what has happened within 2 weeks, it appears not to be the case with Gary Gensler as the head of the SEC. I warn not to underestimate where Gensler wants to go in his crackdown against the cryptospace. We might have forgotten that Ethereum's founders had their own ICO from July 14, 2014 to September 2, 2014.

This information can be used as part of the SEC's fear tactics in implying that Ethereum might be an illegal security.

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 05, 2023, 09:29:17 PM

@zasad@. Yes, not yet at present. However, if a project is declared as a security, it would be forced to either leave the American jurisdiction or register with the US SEC for compliance which, under securities laws, might force those projects to use government approved custodians and transfer agents.

This important information is presently being left unnoticed by much of the people in the cryptospace and it will be the most damaging on the greatest innovation that decentralized ledgers and database has brought us.

I agree with you that SEC can kill any fledgling project. These are big risks, but I don't think SEC will kill Ethereum.
If the project has money, then it will be able to pay a fine in the USA and not be traded on American exchanges. And the number of US exchanges has been declining lately.
Or maybe a new type of assets will appear and crypto exchanges in the US will receive a license to trade such assets.
There are a lot of options for the development of events, but the legislation in Europe and some Asian countries treats cryptocurrencies with understanding and is not in a hurry to recognize cryptocurrencies as shares.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@zasad@. Yes, not yet at present. However, if a project is declared as a security, it would be forced to either leave the American jurisdiction or register with the US SEC for compliance which, under securities laws, might force those projects to use government approved custodians and transfer agents.

This important information is presently being left unnoticed by much of the people in the cryptospace and it will be the most damaging on the greatest innovation that decentralized ledgers and database has brought us.

zasad@

legendary

Activity: 1736

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on June 02, 2023, 11:41:04 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on May 31, 2023, 01:20:17 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 31, 2023, 01:06:06 AM

@zasad@. It is a compliance nightmare for development teams that are located with in American jurisdiction. They're choices are to leave or be taken down by the United States of America hehehe. I not be shocked if the next stage for US regulators is to impose KYC on users personal wallets. What use would the innovation brought by these decentralized ledgers and databases if we cannot be in full control of our digital assets?

..

The more SEC will complicate the lives of crypto projects, the more dissatisfaction will be. MICA will be implemented in Europe and all wallets must be verified.
Large DEFI projects will also follow these principles and introduce whitelisting. I say that freedom will soon end. Other projects will also work, but not with the same liquidity and reliability.

MICA might only be the beginning of the regulators' agenda of killing the most important innovation that decentralization has give us, not your keys, not your coins.

In any case, on uncle Gary vs. Ripple, the Hinman docs will be revealed on June 13. It has a record of the speech made by Bill Hinman who argues that Bitcoin and Ethereum are not securities and transactions on these networks are not securities transactions. Ripple is trying to use this speech as evidence that the SEC does not consider Bitcoin and Ethereum as illegal securities and wants to open another argument that Ripple is also not an illegal security based on this speech.

If this officially and legally proves that Bitcoin and Ethereum are not securities and if it opens an argument for many altcoin projects to also not be securities, I speculate that this will certainly pump the whole cryptospace market hehehehe.

MICA law does not require you to use custodial wallets. The regulator wants to know how many bitcoins and other coins are in your wallet and wants to control the payment of taxes on your cryptocurrencies.
The European regulator has no problem with bitcoin and etherium, and most likely these coins will be regulated as utility tokens.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: zasad@ on May 31, 2023, 01:20:17 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 31, 2023, 01:06:06 AM

@zasad@. It is a compliance nightmare for development teams that are located with in American jurisdiction. They're choices are to leave or be taken down by the United States of America hehehe. I not be shocked if the next stage for US regulators is to impose KYC on users personal wallets. What use would the innovation brought by these decentralized ledgers and databases if we cannot be in full control of our digital assets?

..

The more SEC will complicate the lives of crypto projects, the more dissatisfaction will be. MICA will be implemented in Europe and all wallets must be verified.
Large DEFI projects will also follow these principles and introduce whitelisting. I say that freedom will soon end. Other projects will also work, but not with the same liquidity and reliability.

MICA might only be the beginning of the regulators' agenda of killing the most important innovation that decentralization has give us, not your keys, not your coins.

In any case, on uncle Gary vs. Ripple, the Hinman docs will be revealed on June 13. It has a record of the speech made by Bill Hinman who argues that Bitcoin and Ethereum are not securities and transactions on these networks are not securities transactions. Ripple is trying to use this speech as evidence that the SEC does not consider Bitcoin and Ethereum as illegal securities and wants to open another argument that Ripple is also not an illegal security based on this speech.

If this officially and legally proves that Bitcoin and Ethereum are not securities and if it opens an argument for many altcoin projects to also not be securities, I speculate that this will certainly pump the whole cryptospace market hehehehe.

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 31, 2023, 01:06:06 AM

@zasad@. It is a compliance nightmare for development teams that are located with in American jurisdiction. They're choices are to leave or be taken down by the United States of America hehehe. I not be shocked if the next stage for US regulators is to impose KYC on users personal wallets. What use would the innovation brought by these decentralized ledgers and databases if we cannot be in full control of our digital assets?

..

The more SEC will complicate the lives of crypto projects, the more dissatisfaction will be. MICA will be implemented in Europe and all wallets must be verified.
Large DEFI projects will also follow these principles and introduce whitelisting. I say that freedom will soon end. Other projects will also work, but not with the same liquidity and reliability.

bbc.reporter

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1440

@zasad@. It is a compliance nightmare for development teams that are located with in American jurisdiction. They're choices are to leave or be taken down by the United States of America hehehe. I not be shocked if the next stage for US regulators is to impose KYC on users personal wallets. What use would the innovation brought by these decentralized ledgers and databases if we cannot be in full control of our digital assets?

America has also been losing their lead in blockchain development. Their share of developers has fallen from 40% down to 29%.

Crypto and blockchain technologies are the next wave of the Internet, with the potential to fundamentally change money, the financial system, and the Internet more broadly. That the U.S. is losing market share in blockchain software development highlights the need for the country to take action to preserve its preeminence in financial markets and related technologies.

Source https://www.developerreport.com/developer-report-geography

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 21, 2023, 09:37:15 PM

@zasad@. I do not disagree. The regulators will certainly choose to make criminals out of innocent users first before they give up their campaign on shutting down the cryptospace heheheh. It cannot be killed, however. There is no other way for us in having real ownership over our digital assets except through decentralized ledgers and databases. People will keep using them.

https://metamask.io/
https://consensys.net/terms-of-use/
4.3 Taxes. Each party will be responsible, as required under applicable law, for identifying and paying all taxes and other governmental fees and charges (and any penalties, interest, and other additions thereto) that are imposed on that party upon or with respect to the transactions and payments under this Agreement. All fees payable by you are exclusive taxes unless otherwise noted. We reserve the right to withhold taxes where required.

I don’t know how many decentralized services and wallets there will be in 3-5 years, but all the popular wallets and services that exist now will most likely work with regulators for a while.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@zasad@. I do not disagree. The regulators will certainly choose to make criminals out of innocent users first before they give up their campaign on shutting down the cryptospace heheheh. It cannot be killed, however. There is no other way for us in having real ownership over our digital assets except through decentralized ledgers and databases. People will keep using them.

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 19, 2023, 11:16:42 PM

@zasad@. I am not asking you which side you will be on if being forced to choose. I am only making an argument if we can trust uncle Gary and the SEC to give a fair assessement on the exchanges, services and the projects in the cryptospace.

What is really shown to us is they do not regulate the cryptospace to protect the consumers. What they are doing is they use regulation to protect the interests of their backers from Wall Street and Main Street. If you did not notice, the cryptospace can become a big competitor against the traditional banking system.

Cryptocurrencies will not become competitors to the banking system. They will either be banned like in Pakistan or they will be heavily regulated like commercial banks. Defi projects will also have whitelists if you want to interact with them and KYC providers. The SEC will listen to the interests of the state and large banks that are its shareholders. I don't want to choose between shit and manure.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@zasad@. I am not asking you which side you will be on if being forced to choose. I am only making an argument if we can trust uncle Gary and the SEC to give a fair assessement on the exchanges, services and the projects in the cryptospace.

What is really shown to us is they do not regulate the cryptospace to protect the consumers. What they are doing is they use regulation to protect the interests of their backers from Wall Street and Main Street. If you did not notice, the cryptospace can become a big competitor against the traditional banking system.

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 18, 2023, 10:58:45 PM

@zasad@. Yes, Ripple Labs suffered losses in legal costs, however, the SEC is shown to be making cases not backed by clear regulations. If you are arguing for the SEC, do you really think that uncle Gary is a competent SEC chairman? I would very much disagree if you say yes hehehe.

Ripple had a small victory against the SEC on the Hinman documents. This proves that the SEC is not very transparent on their crackdowns on the different projects in the cryptospace. We already know that they do not have a real basis on what is an illegal security and what is not. Let us hope the Hinman documents will help classify much of the projects we support.

Ripple has secured a small victory against the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) — shutting down the agency’s motion to seal internal files known as the “Hinman Speech documents.”

Those documents consist of SEC drafts and emails relating to a speech given by William Hinman, former Director of the SEC’s Division of Corporation Finance, more than four years ago.

Hinman’s speech reportedly indicated the agency did not consider ether a security at the time. Ripple lawyers have fought to learn more about how Hinman came to that conclusion, which could impact XRP’s own classification.

Source https://blockworks.co/news/ripple-sec-hinman

You asked an interesting question, which side am I on? I hate regulators, but in this market a lot of people and companies have already lost money, so regulation is needed, and without it further development is impossible. But not according to the laws of 1946.

https://twitter.com/iampaulgrewal/status/1658271335066505217
"The SEC also said that the public statements by Chair Gensler are not formal guidance or policy statements from the SEC and the public cannot rely on them as such. 5/7"
"Overall the SEC’s response reinforces Coinbase’s longstanding concern that our industry does not have clarity on what the SEC may consider to be within or outside its jurisdiction at any time, and it is likely to continue changing its mind along the way. 6/7"
paulgrewal.eth(C)

bbc.reporter

legendary

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@zasad@. Yes, Ripple Labs suffered losses in legal costs, however, the SEC is shown to be making cases not backed by clear regulations. If you are arguing for the SEC, do you really think that uncle Gary is a competent SEC chairman? I would very much disagree if you say yes hehehe.

Ripple had a small victory against the SEC on the Hinman documents. This proves that the SEC is not very transparent on their crackdowns on the different projects in the cryptospace. We already know that they do not have a real basis on what is an illegal security and what is not. Let us hope the Hinman documents will help classify much of the projects we support.

Ripple has secured a small victory against the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) — shutting down the agency’s motion to seal internal files known as the “Hinman Speech documents.”

Those documents consist of SEC drafts and emails relating to a speech given by William Hinman, former Director of the SEC’s Division of Corporation Finance, more than four years ago.

Hinman’s speech reportedly indicated the agency did not consider ether a security at the time. Ripple lawyers have fought to learn more about how Hinman came to that conclusion, which could impact XRP’s own classification.

Source https://blockworks.co/news/ripple-sec-hinman

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 18, 2023, 12:25:32 AM

However, a judge disagrees with the SEC hehehe. There is also uncle Gary's case against Ripple Labs. Why has it not come to a conclusion if the SEC really can interpret and implement the rules and regulations in accordance to US law? It is very clear to anyone who follows cryptonews that uncle Gary and his team are having difficulties because the rules are outdated and will kill the innovation being brought by the cryptospace.

SEC agents cannot explain to a federal judge what its policies and attitudes regarding virtual currencies are—or how they are going to impact the industry.

Many in the virtual currency industry have been confused and bedeviled by the Securities and Exchange Commission's (SEC) gradual and ill-explained encroachment on their world, with frequent claims from SEC Chair Gary Gensler that most cryptocurrencies should be properly seen legally as "securities" that ought to be regulated by his agency. That would potentially make lots of legit businesses suddenly illegal dealers in "unregistered securities."

In a decision last week in an ongoing bankruptcy case of Voyager Digital Holdings, U.S. bankruptcy Judge Michael E. Wiles in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York laid into SEC agents for their perplexing and officious manner of trying to force through their attitudes about cryptocurrencies-as-securities.

Judge Wiles finds this situation highly aggravating, noting that "Voyager operated, and Binance.US currently operates, in a regulatory environment that at best can be described as highly uncertain."

Source https://reason.com/2023/03/16/federal-judge-blasts-sec-for-poorly-argued-attempts-to-claim-cryptocurrencies-must-be-regulated-by-them/

I will also quote a little, the SEC has its own position, which they do not want to speak openly:
"And when he insisted on clarification from the SEC, its agents "initially asked if it could state its position only to me on an in camera basis, but I denied that request and ruled that to the extent the SEC wanted to say something further about its objection, it ought to be stated in the public forum, where all other interested parties could hear and understand the SEC's position.""
https://reason.com/2023/03/16/federal-judge-blasts-sec-for-poorly-argued-attempts-to-claim-cryptocurrencies-must-be-regulated-by-them/

In Ripple v. The SEC has not yet put an end to it, and Ripple has suffered huge losses in legal costs and has not been able to fully develop its project for several years.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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However, a judge disagrees with the SEC hehehe. There is also uncle Gary's case against Ripple Labs. Why has it not come to a conclusion if the SEC really can interpret and implement the rules and regulations in accordance to US law? It is very clear to anyone who follows cryptonews that uncle Gary and his team are having difficulties because the rules are outdated and will kill the innovation being brought by the cryptospace.

SEC agents cannot explain to a federal judge what its policies and attitudes regarding virtual currencies are—or how they are going to impact the industry.

Many in the virtual currency industry have been confused and bedeviled by the Securities and Exchange Commission's (SEC) gradual and ill-explained encroachment on their world, with frequent claims from SEC Chair Gary Gensler that most cryptocurrencies should be properly seen legally as "securities" that ought to be regulated by his agency. That would potentially make lots of legit businesses suddenly illegal dealers in "unregistered securities."

In a decision last week in an ongoing bankruptcy case of Voyager Digital Holdings, U.S. bankruptcy Judge Michael E. Wiles in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York laid into SEC agents for their perplexing and officious manner of trying to force through their attitudes about cryptocurrencies-as-securities.

Judge Wiles finds this situation highly aggravating, noting that "Voyager operated, and Binance.US currently operates, in a regulatory environment that at best can be described as highly uncertain."

Source https://reason.com/2023/03/16/federal-judge-blasts-sec-for-poorly-argued-attempts-to-claim-cryptocurrencies-must-be-regulated-by-them/

zasad@

legendary

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 15, 2023, 01:36:59 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on May 13, 2023, 07:41:27 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 12, 2023, 11:34:22 PM

@zasad@. Centers for cryptocurrencies in other countries. This does not solve the problem of regulatory inclarity for the people who want to invest and use the cryptospace in America.

It also appears that it is not only the businesses that are focused on the cryptospace that want regulatory clarity. The US chamber of commerce has filed a brief questioning the SEC for acting unlawfully vs. Coinbase.

The SEC’s actions are not just harmful policy; they are unlawful; and the consequences of the SEC’s continued delay are severe for that reason too.

The SEC’s unwillingness to announce the rules of the road ex ante, combined with its use of enforcement actions to impose or threaten liability ex post, conflicts with the Due Process Clause and basic principles of administrative law. And the SEC’s continued inaction on Coinbase’s rulemaking petition compounds these violations.

Source https://www.uschamber.com/assets/documents/U.S.-Chamber-Amicus-Brief-In-re-Coinbase-Third-Circuit.pdf

Let me tell you my opinion, if I'm wrong, then you tell me where I'm wrong.
In the US, democracy, they do not have bribes, but there is lobbying. Binance in the US is declared a criminal and almost an accomplice of terrorists, so many officials are afraid to lobby for the interests of this company. The Coinbase exchange has a lobby, so they influence the SEC from different angles. This is how American democracy works.

The argument is on regulatory clarity and how the SEC does not have a clear definition on what is an illegal security on much of the projects in the cryptospace. Also, you mention lobbying. Coinbase can lobby to influence the SEC, however, why is the SEC suing Coinbase based on accusations that cannot be backed because uncle Gary does not have the regulatory structure to bring these cases to completion?

The SEC disagrees with your opinion.
They believe they are acting in accordance with US law.
Many projects preferred to negotiate with the regulator and pay fines.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coinbase-request-clarity-crypto-rules-112808455.html?
Coinbase Request for Clarity on Crypto Rules ‘Should Be Denied’, Says SEC

I have not read all the news today, and I will probably update the post. But I don't see any information that the SEC is suing. While I see a circus with a petition.
And while this is happening, secret negotiations are underway.

bbc.reporter

legendary

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Quote from: zasad@ on May 13, 2023, 07:41:27 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 12, 2023, 11:34:22 PM

@zasad@. Centers for cryptocurrencies in other countries. This does not solve the problem of regulatory inclarity for the people who want to invest and use the cryptospace in America.

It also appears that it is not only the businesses that are focused on the cryptospace that want regulatory clarity. The US chamber of commerce has filed a brief questioning the SEC for acting unlawfully vs. Coinbase.

The SEC’s actions are not just harmful policy; they are unlawful; and the consequences of the SEC’s continued delay are severe for that reason too.

The SEC’s unwillingness to announce the rules of the road ex ante, combined with its use of enforcement actions to impose or threaten liability ex post, conflicts with the Due Process Clause and basic principles of administrative law. And the SEC’s continued inaction on Coinbase’s rulemaking petition compounds these violations.

Source https://www.uschamber.com/assets/documents/U.S.-Chamber-Amicus-Brief-In-re-Coinbase-Third-Circuit.pdf

Let me tell you my opinion, if I'm wrong, then you tell me where I'm wrong.
In the US, democracy, they do not have bribes, but there is lobbying. Binance in the US is declared a criminal and almost an accomplice of terrorists, so many officials are afraid to lobby for the interests of this company. The Coinbase exchange has a lobby, so they influence the SEC from different angles. This is how American democracy works.

The argument is on regulatory clarity and how the SEC does not have a clear definition on what is an illegal security on much of the projects in the cryptospace. Also, you mention lobbying. Coinbase can lobby to influence the SEC, however, why is the SEC suing Coinbase based on accusations that cannot be backed because uncle Gary does not have the regulatory structure to bring these cases to completion?

Topic: More Regulation Incoming! - page 4. (Read 1753 times)