More than 50,000 unconfirmed transactions - page 14.

ArticMine

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: Kakmakr on January 24, 2017, 12:40:52 AM

...

Ok, So this is an attack targeted at nodes. Why would someone go through all the trouble to do that? Can this be a strategy to force people to accept SegWit or to make them realize that it is needed? The other possibility is that this is a external attack from a competitor, to take the network down.

What would be your opinion on the motive for this attack?

I suspect it is related to the blocksize issue. For example force a bigger blocksize etc. It will not bring down the Bitcoin network at least at the current levels, but it is having a negative impact. Increasing bandwidth costs for nodes, slowing down legitimate transactions, etc.

rdbase

legendary

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Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Yeah I've been waiting over 8 hours. I hope it somehow confirms soon Sad

Kakmakr

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: ArticMine on January 24, 2017, 12:19:53 AM

Quote from: bitsolutions on January 24, 2017, 12:05:50 AM

...
The spammer increasing their fees just causes legitimate transaction fees to increase since wallets use dynamic fee calculators, this prices the spammer out of the blocks since transaction fees are relatively small for the legitimate users but large for the spammer(since they are trying to buy a lot of block space). Without a cap fees would likely be too low to price the spammer out of the blocks.

The point of the spam is not to buy blockspace since there is way too much spam for that, or even compete with the ham but only to spam the nodes. Fee filters are not a defense since the spammer sets her fees above the filter but below the ham.

Ok, So this is an attack targeted at nodes. Why would someone go through all the trouble to do that? Can this be a strategy to force people to accept SegWit or to make them realize that it is needed? The other possibility is that this is a external attack from a competitor, to take the network down.

What would be your opinion on the motive for this attack?

ArticMine

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Activity: 2282

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: bitsolutions on January 24, 2017, 12:05:50 AM

...
The spammer increasing their fees just causes legitimate transaction fees to increase since wallets use dynamic fee calculators, this prices the spammer out of the blocks since transaction fees are relatively small for the legitimate users but large for the spammer(since they are trying to buy a lot of block space). Without a cap fees would likely be too low to price the spammer out of the blocks.

The point of the spam is not to buy blockspace since there is way too much spam for that, or even compete with the ham but only to spam the nodes. Fee filters are not a defense since the spammer sets her fees above the filter but below the ham.

mobnepal

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Activity: 1218

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Quote from: rexxarofmoknathal on January 24, 2017, 12:04:42 AM

Out of curiousity, what's the worst it's ever gotten to, whether because of spammers or other reasons?

In worst case this may last for few days but if you look at http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/transactions in monthly stats you can see similar attack during 6th of January which haven't lasted for more than a day. So may be this will be settled down by tomorrow or by end of today. Nothing to worry about just you have to send bitcoin with a bit more fee than what you used to today.

bL4nkcode

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Activity: 2142

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Limited in number. Limitless in potential.

As this current time, there are already 71208 unconfirmed transactions in live updating list of new bitcoin transactions in blockchain https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions, and expect that it will increase later it this kind of attack will continue. But I guess this is bit normal, as I saw already more 70k unconfirmed transaction last year.

bitsolutions

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Activity: 261

Merit: 257

Quote from: ArticMine on January 23, 2017, 11:03:50 PM

Actually the spammer simply increases her fees. One must keep in mind that the spammer relies the fact that only a very small portion of the spam transactions will actually get mined regardless of the fees because of the fixed blocksize. A dynamic blocksize with a proper fee structure can be a very effective deterrent against this type of spam attack because by threatening to mine the spam it imposes a very significant risk to the spammer.

The spammer increasing their fees just causes legitimate transaction fees to increase since wallets use dynamic fee calculators, this prices the spammer out of the blocks since transaction fees are relatively small for the legitimate users but large for the spammer(since they are trying to buy a lot of block space). Without a cap fees would likely be too low to price the spammer out of the blocks.

rexxarofmoknathal

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Out of curiousity, what's the worst it's ever gotten to, whether because of spammers or other reasons?

ArticMine

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Activity: 2282

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: bitsolutions on January 23, 2017, 10:32:07 PM

...

Feerate filters will generally drop spam transactions and prevent those with too low of fees from getting relayed. The block size limit is actually fairly effective at preventing most of the spam from getting mined. What you're missing is that the resources costs to nodes for spam transactions that get mined are far higher than those that do not. Raising the block size actually has the effect of making spam attacks worse since more spam would be mined and take up resources/create more UTXO's.

Actually the spammer simply increases her fees. One must keep in mind that the spammer relies the fact that only a very small portion of the spam transactions will actually get mined regardless of the fees because of the fixed blocksize. A dynamic blocksize with a proper fee structure can be a very effective deterrent against this type of spam attack because by threatening to mine the spam it imposes a very significant risk to the spammer.

bitsolutions

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Quote from: ArticMine on January 23, 2017, 10:06:50 PM

This kind of attack works because the spammer sends spam at a much faster rate than the Bitcoin network with its fixed 1 MB blocksize can possibly mine. There is consequently little or no cost to the spammer other than the spammer's own bandwidth. There is a significant cost to the network; however in driving up the bandwidth costs of those of us who run full nodes, with the likely result of driving down the number of full Bitcoin nodes.

A ~60% effective blocksize increase via say SegWit alone will not address this kind of spam attack.

Feerate filters will generally drop spam transactions and prevent those with too low of fees from getting relayed. The block size limit is actually fairly effective at preventing most of the spam from getting mined. What you're missing is that the resources costs to nodes for spam transactions that get mined are far higher than those that do not. Raising the block size actually has the effect of making spam attacks worse since more spam would be mined and take up resources/create more UTXO's.

ArticMine

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Activity: 2282

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Monero Core Team

This kind of attack works because the spammer sends spam at a much faster rate than the Bitcoin network with its fixed 1 MB blocksize can possibly mine. There is consequently little or no cost to the spammer other than the spammer's own bandwidth. There is a significant cost to the network; however in driving up the bandwidth costs of those of us who run full nodes, with the likely result of driving down the number of full Bitcoin nodes.

A ~60% effective blocksize increase via say SegWit alone will not address this kind of spam attack.

-ck

legendary

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: Hydrogen on January 23, 2017, 08:53:37 PM

Quote from: -ck on January 23, 2017, 08:06:07 PM

You're right, it appears to be another concerted spam effort rather than real transactions though.
This graph is telling:
http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/transactions

Likely another political stunt.

Maybe they're doing it to push the price down.

So they can buy a lot of BTC for their next pump and dump cycle?

Many of these done in the past have even announced their intent and they were mostly political and rarely technical, but never financial; no doubt this one is something about block size again.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: -ck on January 23, 2017, 08:06:07 PM

You're right, it appears to be another concerted spam effort rather than real transactions though.
This graph is telling:
http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/transactions

Likely another political stunt.

Maybe they're doing it to push the price down.

So they can buy a lot of BTC for their next pump and dump cycle?

dihari

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 525

Quote from: kiklo on January 23, 2017, 08:11:09 PM

Quote from: Viscount on January 23, 2017, 08:03:17 PM

Quote from: kiklo on January 23, 2017, 07:49:43 PM

This is the Chinese Cashing Out before the Price Drop.

Longer you wait to do the same , the more capital you will lose. Tongue

What makes you think the price will drop? We can see big volumes no small down tick it's an indicator that whales buying furtively. Tongue

Bitcoin makes x3 by summer 2017 Cool

Price has gone down $15 in the last 20 minutes, BTC is heading down,
Chinese are selling because the new trading fees on their exchanges mean they won't be able to manipulate the price like when it was zero fees.
Watch the Charts tonight and decide for yourself. Wink

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts
Select 1d so you can see the decline begin.

Cool

Why it's all about the Chinese? Why they have big amount of money in this business? Why another countries can't be like Chinese so they can make a move for bitcoin too? Why?
So many unconfirmed transactions from Chinese users before the price down is mean they know what will happen next.

kiklo

legendary

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Quote from: hdtqisg on January 23, 2017, 08:39:10 PM

many unconfirmed transactions at the moment, but i think it is still normal

https://blockchain.info/
unconfirmed transactions will get alot higher if they keep doing this, Tongue

Height Age Transactions Total Sent Relayed By Size (kB
449723 2 minutes 1 12.50 BTC BTCC Pool 0.27

Cool

hdtqisg

sr. member

Activity: 686

Merit: 250

many unconfirmed transactions at the moment, but i think it is still normal

kiklo

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Quote from: Viscount on January 23, 2017, 08:03:17 PM

Quote from: kiklo on January 23, 2017, 07:49:43 PM

This is the Chinese Cashing Out before the Price Drop.

Longer you wait to do the same , the more capital you will lose. Tongue

What makes you think the price will drop? We can see big volumes no small down tick it's an indicator that whales buying furtively. Tongue

Bitcoin makes x3 by summer 2017 Cool

Price has gone down $15 in the last 20 minutes, BTC is heading down,
Chinese are selling because the new trading fees on their exchanges mean they won't be able to manipulate the price like when it was zero fees.
Watch the Charts tonight and decide for yourself. Wink

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts
Select 1d so you can see the decline begin.

Cool

countryfree

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1047

Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: -ck on January 23, 2017, 08:06:07 PM

You're right, it appears to be another concerted spam effort rather than real transactions though.
This graph is telling:
http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/transactions

Likely another political stunt.

Thanks for info. I was wondering whether it was an attack or something.
Well, I hope it doesn't last.

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

You're right, it appears to be another concerted spam effort rather than real transactions though.
This graph is telling:
http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/transactions

Likely another political stunt.

Viscount

sr. member

Activity: 243

Merit: 250

Quote from: kiklo on January 23, 2017, 07:49:43 PM

This is the Chinese Cashing Out before the Price Drop.

Longer you wait to do the same , the more capital you will lose. Tongue

What makes you think the price will drop? We can see big volumes no small down tick it's an indicator that whales buying furtively. Tongue

Bitcoin makes x3 by summer 2017 Cool

Topic: More than 50,000 unconfirmed transactions - page 14. (Read 16779 times)