Most common mistakes of amatuer Bitcoin sellers - page 2.

Pursuer

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Quote from: Kakmakr on September 28, 2016, 12:35:23 AM

Quote from: sbtctalk on September 27, 2016, 05:49:57 AM

Quote from: Mastsetad on September 27, 2016, 05:24:47 AM

The most common mistake of a amatuer bitcoin seller is that they don't know about escrows or anything and they believe anyone easily without thinking about the risk involved with it that is the reason they mostly get scammed because only a few people don't scam people without escrow.

I thought of a scenario when I was taking my dinner earlier -

What if the seller and the escrow are the same person (but login using 2 different accounts)?
or
What if the buyer and the escrow are the same person (but login using 2 different accounts)?

It is possible, but what reputation will this Escrow have in the community, if he or she scams people? The only way this will work is if this person are busy with a long Con, where they build trust and wait for the whale, and then jump with the mother load.

Most of these people would make enough money from the Escrow service, if they have build enough trust for them not to have to scam people. ^smile^

Escrow services scamming people is not so unheard of and it has actually happened before with big escrow people here on this forum too!

and the solution for that is also easy too when using bitcoin.
you can simply use multi signature bitcoin addresses for example addresses with 2 out of 3 signature that each party has access to only one key and then spending it would require at least two party signing.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: sbtctalk on September 27, 2016, 05:49:57 AM

Quote from: Mastsetad on September 27, 2016, 05:24:47 AM

The most common mistake of a amatuer bitcoin seller is that they don't know about escrows or anything and they believe anyone easily without thinking about the risk involved with it that is the reason they mostly get scammed because only a few people don't scam people without escrow.

I thought of a scenario when I was taking my dinner earlier -

What if the seller and the escrow are the same person (but login using 2 different accounts)?
or
What if the buyer and the escrow are the same person (but login using 2 different accounts)?

It is possible, but what reputation will this Escrow have in the community, if he or she scams people? The only way this will work is if this person are busy with a long Con, where they build trust and wait for the whale, and then jump with the mother load.

Most of these people would make enough money from the Escrow service, if they have build enough trust for them not to have to scam people. ^smile^

ObscureBean

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Quote from: sbtctalk on September 27, 2016, 03:55:52 AM

Quote from: ObscureBean on September 27, 2016, 01:47:01 AM

I think Localbitcoins is safe enough even when selling Bitcoin for PayPal, you just need to check the track record of the buyer. There are plenty of buyers who've been on there for a long time and have 100% positive feedback from 1000+ trades. Sure that doesn't guarantee they won't scam you but it certainly helps. And if you're looking to sell a big amount of Bitcoins, you might consider selling in smaller chunks to several top buyers instead of the whole thing to just one buyer.

The safest transfer method seem to be LBC with direct inter bank transfer. There is no way refund or chargeback could be made this way.

Bank is indeed probably the safest but the drawback is the fee you'll need to pay to receive the money, usually between $15 - $30 depending on the bank. Also, you have to wait for at least a few hours for the money to become available, sometimes longer while PayPal is pretty much instantaneous. For big amounts though, it's definitely worth it to pay the fees and get the money sent directly to your bank account.

sbtctalk

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Quote from: BARR_Official on September 27, 2016, 06:01:41 AM

Quote from: sbtctalk on September 26, 2016, 07:04:34 AM

I could also buy a 2nd hand camera from eBay, receive the goods and I deny I received the goods and I file a charge back since delivery confirmations are useless?

People do it every day, and ebay encourages it. Ebay works for the buyer, and Paypal works for ebay.

If a buyer says he didn't receive the item, Ebay refunds him the full price plus shipping. Then Paypal takes the money from your bank account, even if it leaves you with a negative balance. There is nothing you can do about it, and they don't care.

What is this world becoming? How prevalent are these practices? Are stories to share?

Then why are people still with Paypal? But this will lead to the next question - Bitcoin is a good alternative and it protects the seller but it puts buyer at disadvantage.

When you are on Paypal/Ebay - The seller is disadvantaged
When you use Bitcoins - The buyer is disadvantaged

What is the balance?

But there are a couple of hardcore Crypto sellers on eBay who are still surviving strongly with hundreds of positive reviews. How do they survive?

BARR_Official

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Quote from: sbtctalk on September 26, 2016, 07:04:34 AM

I could also buy a 2nd hand camera from eBay, receive the goods and I deny I received the goods and I file a charge back since delivery confirmations are useless?

People do it every day, and ebay encourages it. Ebay works for the buyer, and Paypal works for ebay.

If a buyer says he didn't receive the item, Ebay refunds him the full price plus shipping. Then Paypal takes the money from your bank account, even if it leaves you with a negative balance. There is nothing you can do about it, and they don't care.

sbtctalk

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Quote from: Mastsetad on September 27, 2016, 05:24:47 AM

The most common mistake of a amatuer bitcoin seller is that they don't know about escrows or anything and they believe anyone easily without thinking about the risk involved with it that is the reason they mostly get scammed because only a few people don't scam people without escrow.

I thought of a scenario when I was taking my dinner earlier -

What if the seller and the escrow are the same person (but login using 2 different accounts)?
or
What if the buyer and the escrow are the same person (but login using 2 different accounts)?

NetFreak199

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Quote from: jacafbiz on September 27, 2016, 05:37:59 AM

Quote from: TraderETH on September 27, 2016, 05:10:09 AM

I think the most common mistake of amateur bitcoins sellers, they use payment method using reversible services are like paypal,skrill and neteller without escrow service and they usualy sell the bitcoins to users who has not positive feed back, so they was got scam.

I agreed with your points, anybody that is going to transact with anybody must enforce the use of Escrow service

Agree! Escrow services ! You should do escrow if you have to transact big amount of bitcoin and i think also low but i do prefer big because it will be a lot lost if you will be scam but in low sort of nothing happen Cheesy

jacafbiz

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Quote from: TraderETH on September 27, 2016, 05:10:09 AM

I think the most common mistake of amateur bitcoins sellers, they use payment method using reversible services are like paypal,skrill and neteller without escrow service and they usualy sell the bitcoins to users who has not positive feed back, so they was got scam.

I agreed with your points, anybody that is going to transact with anybody must enforce the use of Escrow service

Mastsetad

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The most common mistake of a amatuer bitcoin seller is that they don't know about escrows or anything and they believe anyone easily without thinking about the risk involved with it that is the reason they mostly get scammed because only a few people don't scam people without escrow.

Herbert2020

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i think all the things that were mentioned here are only a simple common sense!

there have always been scammers around the corner to take other people's money and run away. and it doesn't matter if it is bitcoin or it is paypal or even paper money being traded hand to hand, there will always be some people who want to exploit the gullibility of others and make money from it.

so it is always up to the people who are using these services to keep their eyes open, know the risks and benefits and then jump in.
and those who jump in with their eyes close deserve losing money and they have no right for coming to forums and cry about it.

TraderETH

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I think the most common mistake of amateur bitcoins sellers, they use payment method using reversible services are like paypal,skrill and neteller without escrow service and they usualy sell the bitcoins to users who has not positive feed back, so they was got scam.

sbtctalk

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Quote from: klf on September 27, 2016, 05:02:46 AM

Quote from: sbtctalk on September 27, 2016, 03:55:52 AM

Quote from: ObscureBean on September 27, 2016, 01:47:01 AM

I think Localbitcoins is safe enough even when selling Bitcoin for PayPal, you just need to check the track record of the buyer. There are plenty of buyers who've been on there for a long time and have 100% positive feedback from 1000+ trades. Sure that doesn't guarantee they won't scam you but it certainly helps. And if you're looking to sell a big amount of Bitcoins, you might consider selling in smaller chunks to several top buyers instead of the whole thing to just one buyer.

The safest transfer method seem to be LBC with direct inter bank transfer. There is no way refund or chargeback could be made this way.

But the even safest method is buying with cash if you can find a seller in your place. If you don't know the person, then it is not advisable to receive funds from an unknown person because we don't know the source of those funds. I one time did a cash transaction and it went very smooth without any issue.

As long as there is a banking trail and you keep a log book of your sales, it should cover yourself? I am not a legal expert here - can anyone clarify?

I do not know understand why BTC sales is such a hassle. I am aware of the legitimate concerns of money laundering. But if a dubious character were to use their dirty money to buy physical goods from Target, Walmart and resell it on eBay to get hard currency, then what is the difference?

klf

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Quote from: sbtctalk on September 27, 2016, 03:55:52 AM

Quote from: ObscureBean on September 27, 2016, 01:47:01 AM

I think Localbitcoins is safe enough even when selling Bitcoin for PayPal, you just need to check the track record of the buyer. There are plenty of buyers who've been on there for a long time and have 100% positive feedback from 1000+ trades. Sure that doesn't guarantee they won't scam you but it certainly helps. And if you're looking to sell a big amount of Bitcoins, you might consider selling in smaller chunks to several top buyers instead of the whole thing to just one buyer.

The safest transfer method seem to be LBC with direct inter bank transfer. There is no way refund or chargeback could be made this way.

But the even safest method is buying with cash if you can find a seller in your place. If you don't know the person, then it is not advisable to receive funds from an unknown person because we don't know the source of those funds. I one time did a cash transaction and it went very smooth without any issue.

sbtctalk

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Quote from: btccashacc on September 27, 2016, 04:10:53 AM

Quote from: sbtctalk on September 27, 2016, 03:55:52 AM

The safest transfer method seem to be LBC with direct inter bank transfer. There is no way refund or chargeback could be made this way.

Just don't dealing with reversible payment method like paypal or others, i might agree with you that the wire transfer is a good option however the bank transfer has high fee especially for the international transaction, the alternative is open the localbitcoin, and find the seller on your area then pay with the cash, that's it

I believe there is a reason why it is called Localbitcoins.

It is meant for domestic regional dealings. Assuming the fund transfer is internal and domestic, the fees should be minimal. I refrain from international wire transfers because the fees are a deterrent.

btccashacc

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Quote from: sbtctalk on September 27, 2016, 03:55:52 AM

The safest transfer method seem to be LBC with direct inter bank transfer. There is no way refund or chargeback could be made this way.

Just don't dealing with reversible payment method like paypal or others, i might agree with you that the wire transfer is a good option however the bank transfer has high fee especially for the international transaction, the alternative is open the localbitcoin, and find the seller on your area then pay with the cash, that's it

sbtctalk

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Activity: 266

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Quote from: ObscureBean on September 27, 2016, 01:47:01 AM

I think Localbitcoins is safe enough even when selling Bitcoin for PayPal, you just need to check the track record of the buyer. There are plenty of buyers who've been on there for a long time and have 100% positive feedback from 1000+ trades. Sure that doesn't guarantee they won't scam you but it certainly helps. And if you're looking to sell a big amount of Bitcoins, you might consider selling in smaller chunks to several top buyers instead of the whole thing to just one buyer.

The safest transfer method seem to be LBC with direct inter bank transfer. There is no way refund or chargeback could be made this way.

ObscureBean

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Activity: 1148

Merit: 1000

I think Localbitcoins is safe enough even when selling Bitcoin for PayPal, you just need to check the track record of the buyer. There are plenty of buyers who've been on there for a long time and have 100% positive feedback from 1000+ trades. Sure that doesn't guarantee they won't scam you but it certainly helps. And if you're looking to sell a big amount of Bitcoins, you might consider selling in smaller chunks to several top buyers instead of the whole thing to just one buyer.

NorrisK

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At one point you simply have to trust a method such as exchanges (don't leave the coins there) or it will be impossible to buy bitcoins. There is no trustless service, but the risk can be minimized by using reputable services.

I am perfectly fine to pay a higher % fee for the ease of fast buying/selling, without leaving the house and without having to bother checking my bank account/paypal/whatever to see if the money is (still) there. Services charge a fee to make it easier for you and this should be embraced imo.

davis196

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shinratensei_

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Quote from: fravia on September 26, 2016, 03:54:28 PM

Quote from: btvGainer on September 26, 2016, 06:09:51 AM

Quote from: Senor.Bla on September 26, 2016, 05:32:21 AM

so to sum it up one could simply say, that you have to sell bitcoin offline and in an direct exchange for cash or goods? online it only makes sense as an professional exchange. or did i miss something?

I believe in reverse.If you want to be safe,always use good reputed exchange for most of them have all required info about both buyer and sellers and you can contact them and ask for help in case you get scammed

yeah, it is better to hold your bitcoins in the exchanges that have only good reputation so you dont lose it

So from the another users suggestion above me keep your bitcoin in the pouch of the people is those you don't know about that. but if you have a more time and MOVE it into your personal cold storage.

Topic: Most common mistakes of amatuer Bitcoin sellers - page 2. (Read 2414 times)