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Topic: Most Mt Gox Bitcoins Were Gone by May 2013, Report Claims (Read 1495 times)

full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
is still possible to tracking mt.gox stolen bitcoins?

Not if the people with the information dont release the information, according to them finding the missing coins isn't very possible at this stage.

so people didnt release their information? and the case unpunished?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
A pumpkin mines 27 hours a night
is still possible to tracking mt.gox stolen bitcoins?

Not if the people with the information dont release the information, according to them finding the missing coins isn't very possible at this stage.

We would need access to all the transaction logs of Mt. Gox, only they know all the addresses of their wallets, and without those we can never be sure when coins went "left Gox" or "entered Gox". Such a list alone would be of phenomenal use for investigating this issue!
legendary
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
is still possible to tracking mt.gox stolen bitcoins?

Not if the people with the information dont release the information, according to them finding the missing coins isn't very possible at this stage.
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
is still possible to tracking mt.gox stolen bitcoins?
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1219
The 424,242 BTC transfer by Karpeles happened on June at exactly the same time the biggest theft was suspected to have happened.

Do I need to explain this any more? Around BTC425,000 were stolen on June 2011 from Mt Gox. At the same time, according to the Blockchain, Mark Karpeles moved some BTC424,242 to an unspecified Bitcoin address.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Trust me!
Mark should have noticed coins are missing when he produced his first balance sheet and annual reports. It is impossible not to notice so much money vanished, unless he is doing the stealing.

That is the whole point. If I am not wrong, the balance sheet and financial reports for Mt Gox were created and verified every 3 months. Also, it seems that in June 2011 (when the biggest robbery happened), the vast majority of the Gox coins were stored in a single Bitcoin wallet. It is impossible not to notice the robbery of BTC425,000 from a single wallet.

Well for what it's worth: From what I have heard of the things allegedly going on at Mt. Gox (past tense) I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't realize 425.000 BTC disappearing. Also its was a tad less money than what that amount would be worth today!
full member
Activity: 350
Merit: 118
Mark should have noticed coins are missing when he produced his first balance sheet and annual reports. It is impossible not to notice so much money vanished, unless he is doing the stealing.

That is the whole point. If I am not wrong, the balance sheet and financial reports for Mt Gox were created and verified every 3 months. Also, it seems that in June 2011 (when the biggest robbery happened), the vast majority of the Gox coins were stored in a single Bitcoin wallet. It is impossible not to notice the robbery of BTC425,000 from a single wallet.

The 424,242 BTC transfer by Karpeles happened on June at exactly the same time the biggest theft was suspected to have happened.

I wonder if there is a link between this transfer and the sudden ~425,000 BTC discrepancy. Does anyone know how Mt. Gox stored their coins after 2011? I'm assuming that they split the funds into multiple addresses?

In retrospect, perhaps exchanges should keep their coins in one single large wallet. It would definitely make tracking coins, identifying lost coins, confirming reserves, etc. much more easier.
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1219
Mark should have noticed coins are missing when he produced his first balance sheet and annual reports. It is impossible not to notice so much money vanished, unless he is doing the stealing.

That is the whole point. If I am not wrong, the balance sheet and financial reports for Mt Gox were created and verified every 3 months. Also, it seems that in June 2011 (when the biggest robbery happened), the vast majority of the Gox coins were stored in a single Bitcoin wallet. It is impossible not to notice the robbery of BTC425,000 from a single wallet.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Maybe Mark just didn't want to notice that they were all missing. He could make as much money as possible for as long as possible before anyone caught on.

Some of the early "leaders" in bitcoin have hurt it some. I was at an event yesterday and a Wall Street guy said, "people are afraid...We've got a lot of work to clean up where these early guys screwed up."

Now, if the apparent risk is really illusory, and the string of failures has been caused by incompetence or crooked behavior, then the real risk isn't nearly that bad.  Which, you know, is what we all hope.  And that's why the whole scene needs to be "rehabilitated" with honest and competent businessmen accumulating a much better track record than these early unregulated and largely incompetent-at-business people have done, before the wall street guys can sell investors on it.

My understanding is that one of the great things about Bitcoin was that it was supposed to take power away from the established financial institutions and the people who currently run our fiat system. But if the current breed of Bitcoin entrepreneurs continue to screw up as they have done so many times in the past and the old Wall Street types have to step in and take control, then perhaps that represents a failure of one of Bitcoin's supposed benefits.

There are good, honest, and technically capable people in the Bitcoin world today. People like Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen have an in-depth understanding of Bitcoin security and probably won't screw their customers due to incompetence in the same way Mt. Gox and BFL did but unfortunately, they're not really businesspeople.

I proposed the idea of an independent Bitcoin auditing service in this thread that would audit Bitcoin-based businesses using a team of accountants from the old fiat world and Bitcoin experts like Hearn and Andresen. It's not perfect, but I believe it would go a long way towards encouraging businesses to become more transparent with their operations and adopt better practices with their customers' funds.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Some of the early "leaders" in bitcoin have hurt it some. I was at an event yesterday and a Wall Street guy said, "people are afraid...We've got a lot of work to clean up where these early guys screwed up."

Exactly.  While I think that the acceptance of Bitcoin has reached a tipping point where legit institutions will eventually deal in it, right now there is huge reluctance because of all the scammy associations that rise out of silk road (just plain illegal), Gox (incredibly stupid or incredibly crooked, doesn't matter, either way is bad), Butterfly, and dozens of imploded exchanges.  

Facing facts, if you were going to investigate the prospects for opening a Bitcoin business right now from a businessman's perspective, you'd be noticing that Bitcoin exchanges have a tendency to go broke in a spectacular way losing a lot of money they'd been trusted with.  And given that apparent risk, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to get into that business.

Now, if the apparent risk is really illusory, and the string of failures has been caused by incompetence or crooked behavior, then the real risk isn't nearly that bad.  Which, you know, is what we all hope.  And that's why the whole scene needs to be "rehabilitated" with honest and competent businessmen accumulating a much better track record than these early unregulated and largely incompetent-at-business people have done, before the wall street guys can sell investors on it.



And I definitely think we are getting there. The businesses that are coming out now have a lot of VC funding, are able to hire top notch engineers that can ACTUALLY keep things secure, and are saying the right things. I wasn't part of bitcoin when Mt.Gox occurred, but I can't imagine trusting one guy with all my bitcoin. One guy who was in control of everything. But I guess hindsight really is 20/20.
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1035
Mtgox is an important lesson to remind us all of Satoshi's original intent and purpose with a decentralized p2p currency.

Whether it was gross incompetence and/or fraud , doesn't matter as the lesson is their are large security risks in trusting a centralized third party with your wealth.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Trust me!
It's difficult to believe that nobody at Gox noticed such huge amount of missing coins. Why those guys never made any accounting on their holdings? For any exchange that should be one of the most trivial things.
It was because they were not ready for MtGox being so popular, so these people from normal accountants overnight become keepers of the multi million dollar money fortune. They have no experience with bitcoins  trading on such scale.

It is also imaginable that once you realize that such a big loss has occurred (somehow) you get cold sweat and have to decide on your course of action. I bet in this case many people's instinct would be to somehow try and cover up the whole thing ans manage to get those coins back somehow.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1132
Some of the early "leaders" in bitcoin have hurt it some. I was at an event yesterday and a Wall Street guy said, "people are afraid...We've got a lot of work to clean up where these early guys screwed up."

Exactly.  While I think that the acceptance of Bitcoin has reached a tipping point where legit institutions will eventually deal in it, right now there is huge reluctance because of all the scammy associations that rise out of silk road (just plain illegal), Gox (incredibly stupid or incredibly crooked, doesn't matter, either way is bad), Butterfly, and dozens of imploded exchanges.  

Facing facts, if you were going to investigate the prospects for opening a Bitcoin business right now from a businessman's perspective, you'd be noticing that Bitcoin exchanges have a tendency to go broke in a spectacular way losing a lot of money they'd been trusted with.  And given that apparent risk, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to get into that business.

Now, if the apparent risk is really illusory, and the string of failures has been caused by incompetence or crooked behavior, then the real risk isn't nearly that bad.  Which, you know, is what we all hope.  And that's why the whole scene needs to be "rehabilitated" with honest and competent businessmen accumulating a much better track record than these early unregulated and largely incompetent-at-business people have done, before the wall street guys can sell investors on it.

legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 1001
More news on mtgox good now I got some reading to do and see if more vapour or something worth reading and seeing what claims been made now.  iver way hes made is billions and ran off and loling to the bank with everyone's coins.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Maybe Mark just didn't want to notice that they were all missing. He could make as much money as possible for as long as possible before anyone caught on.

Some of the early "leaders" in bitcoin have hurt it some. I was at an event yesterday and a Wall Street guy said, "people are afraid...We've got a lot of work to clean up where these early guys screwed up."
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Mark should have noticed coins are missing when he produced his first balance sheet and annual reports. It is impossible not to notice so much money vanished, unless he is doing the stealing.
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1128
Enjoy 500% bonus + 70 FS
Quote

Mt Gox's missing bitcoins were stolen from the exchange over a period of time beginning in 2011, according to a new report released today by a group investigating its collapse.

They were gone long before the company's collapse in February 2014, the report said. Gox had therefore been operating on a fractional reserve basis for most of that time, either knowingly or unknowingly.

The stolen bitcoins had been withdrawn and sold off on various exchanges including Mt Gox itself, and given the timing probably at prices far below the 2013-14 highs.

Tokyo-based bitcoin security firm WizSec, which produced today's update and a previous one in February, has been conducting an unofficial investigation into Mt Gox's collapse based on data pieced together from various leaks, hacks and other sources.


http://www.coindesk.com/most-mt-gox-bitcoins-were-gone-by-may-2013-report-claims/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CoinDesk+%28CoinDesk+-+The+Voice+of+Digital+Currency%29

http://blog.wizsec.jp/2015/04/the-missing-mtgox-bitcoins.html

Many news have come out about Mt gox but the real truth will not come out in any  time in the near future. It was a mystery and will be a mystery for a very long time to come, thats what I feel about whats  happening right now with the whole case of Mt gox.
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
Was not Mt. Gox under control of Jed Mccaleb in 2011 ?

According with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox:
Quote
... McCaleb announced on 6 March 2011 that he had sold MtGox to Mark Karpelès ...
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
It was because they were not ready for MtGox being so popular, so these people from normal accountants overnight become keepers of the multi million dollar money fortune. They have no experience with bitcoins  trading on such scale.

Gox was the first and most popular for years, that should be enough time to get used to their popularity.

"They have no experience with bitcoins  trading on such scale."
Just like nobody else in the crypto scene, but many other exchanges were able to cope with the scale of trade without stealing 640 000 bitcoins Smiley.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1005
★Nitrogensports.eu★
It's difficult to believe that nobody at Gox noticed such huge amount of missing coins. Why those guys never made any accounting on their holdings? For any exchange that should be one of the most trivial things.
It was because they were not ready for MtGox being so popular, so these people from normal accountants overnight become keepers of the multi million dollar money fortune. They have no experience with bitcoins  trading on such scale.
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