Most will never make a profit mining if BTC stays under $650 for long - page 2.

Syke

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Quote from: bozo333 on August 13, 2014, 10:33:38 PM

Quote from: Bitsaurus on August 13, 2014, 09:59:57 PM

The fiat price of Bitcoin really doesn't matter much.

Not sure how that can be...

More bitcoins = more fiat.
Less bitcoins = less fiat.

The fiat price of Bitcoin really doesn't matter much...when calculating the profitability of an already purchased miner.

Benjig

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Quote from: bozo333 on August 13, 2014, 08:55:27 PM

My company invested about 10K into various BTC and script mining machines incl. a SP10, a couple of S1, A2, Dragon Miner, and a few assorted smaller miners. Power costs are low here, about 10 cents per KWH.
After trying out various approaches during the last 2 months and negotiating much better prices from dealers should we buy miners for $250K+ the fact of the matter is one will not make any money mining using a 6 month horizon if difficulty continues to increase at about 30%/month average as it has during the last year and BTC does not go above $650 for any length of time. The only 'profit' would be whatever you can get for your then obsolete machines after those 6 months. And that is a pure crap shoot...

And in my calculations I did not factor in incidentals like setup, removal, maintenance, repairs (many cannot be fixed du to lack of parts), internet blackouts, other failures.

If you think the price of bitcoin will raise so dont buy miners, buy bitcoins itself.. the point fo mining is that you will make more coins than if you just buy them, as someone said above me.

Bitsaurus

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Quote from: bozo333 on August 13, 2014, 10:33:38 PM

Quote from: Bitsaurus on August 13, 2014, 09:59:57 PM

The fiat price of Bitcoin really doesn't matter much.

Not sure how that can be...can you buy your gas with bit coins? Pay for the electricity your miners use?
Bitcoins are not somehow magically disconnected from the real world. I buy stuff in Euro and Dollars. The prices
get adjusted one way or the other if the same thing has a big price difference based on the exchange rate. Bitcoin goes to $100 rest assured anybody selling you stuff will adjust the BTC price accordingly. Can't be any other way my friend.

PS I am talking a commercial mining enterprise, not hobbyist mining at home with a couple of S1 or similar.

Obviously you have not done enough reading on the forums. If your goal is to convert every transaction for fiat for payment then there's no point in getting into Bitcoins.

The whole point of mining (other than supporting the network) is that you believe you can get more coins with your hardware than you could have if you bought the coins. The value of the coins in fiat is more or less pointless. In fact if you buy them you obtain the coins instantly and are not forced to wait 6-8 months to recoup you investment.

Bitcoins are not magically disconnected from the real world, but the price you pay for electricity is the same as if you had used that money to buy the coins from an exchange.

I suggest you spend some time in the economics forum and speculation subthread.

Only newbies are looking to make more in fiat by mining.

bozo333

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Quote from: Bitsaurus on August 13, 2014, 09:59:57 PM

The fiat price of Bitcoin really doesn't matter much.

Not sure how that can be...can you buy your gas with bit coins? Pay for the electricity your miners use?
Bitcoins are not somehow magically disconnected from the real world. I buy stuff in Euro and Dollars. The prices
get adjusted one way or the other if the same thing has a big price difference based on the exchange rate. Bitcoin goes to $100 rest assured anybody selling you stuff will adjust the BTC price accordingly. Can't be any other way my friend.

PS I am talking a commercial mining enterprise, not hobbyist mining at home with a couple of S1 or similar.

cloverme

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Quote from: Bitsaurus on August 13, 2014, 09:59:57 PM

The fiat price of Bitcoin really doesn't matter much.

If I buy 10 BTC worth of mining equipment and I mine 20BTC with it then I have made a profit irrespective of whether BTC is $650 or $6.5. Conversely if I only manage to mine 7BTC with the same miners I am at a loss irrespective of fiat price. If all you care about is the fiat price, why even mine in the first place?

With the current difficulty spike it looks like no current hardware will ROI in BTC terms (at least until vendors drop BTC prices).

Thank you! I was trying to make that point about the difficulty in a hardware thread earlier and it was going over everyone's head. The prices need go down and the hashrate of the miners with respect to Gh or Th per KwH needs to go up. Difficulty going up combined with prices falling on BTC/USD are a very bad combo. He is mining for a profit though, so he has to convert some of his BTC into fiat to pay operating expenses.

Bitsaurus

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The fiat price of Bitcoin really doesn't matter much.

If I buy 10 BTC worth of mining equipment and I mine 20BTC with it then I have made a profit irrespective of whether BTC is $650 or $6.5. Conversely if I only manage to mine 7BTC with the same miners I am at a loss irrespective of fiat price. If all you care about is the fiat price, why even mine in the first place?

With the current difficulty spike it looks like no current hardware will ROI in BTC terms (at least until vendors drop BTC prices).

SMB-2525

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yep. I've run a ton of calcs. 0.10/KWH does not work for now - if ever again.

bozo333

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My company invested about 10K into various BTC and script mining machines incl. a SP10, a couple of S1, A2, Dragon Miner, and a few assorted smaller miners. Power costs are low here, about 10 cents per KWH.
After trying out various approaches during the last 2 months and negotiating much better prices from dealers should we buy miners for $250K+ the fact of the matter is one will not make any money mining using a 6 month horizon if difficulty continues to increase at about 30%/month average as it has during the last year and BTC does not go above $650 for any length of time. The only 'profit' would be whatever you can get for your then obsolete machines after those 6 months. And that is a pure crap shoot...

And in my calculations I did not factor in incidentals like setup, removal, maintenance, repairs (many cannot be fixed du to lack of parts), internet blackouts, other failures.

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