Move bitcoins anonymous to another wallet

TryNinja

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Quote from: Chris! on November 24, 2019, 10:15:53 AM

It's 2019. Stop suggesting mixers. They've been broken for a long time.

How about this part of his post?

Quote from: madu on March 05, 2019, 04:30:35 PM

[...]

In my thesis, I attacked coinmixer.se (at the time of writing it was the biggest centralized mixing service), however - except chipmixer.com¹ - every other centralized mixing service I checked could be broken in a similar fashion.

[...]

¹ Chipmixer was the only centralized mixing service which I did not break fully. However, I did not put much work into checking this mixing service.

Chris!

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Quote from: bitmover on November 18, 2019, 05:17:30 PM

Quote from: perkoo on November 18, 2019, 04:55:29 PM

What is the the best and most anonymous way to move X bitcoins to another wallet?
Does it really matter to split it up in eg. 0.1-0.9 bitcoins per transaction? Or is there "services" that scanning the blockchain for transactions over eg 1 bitcoin? And how frequently can I do the transactions?

I will ofc use a vpn. But is there anything else that I should do?

There are services like walletexplorer.com that scan the blockchain for every transaction , no matter the size.

The best way to get some anonymity is using a mixer (hey will mix your coins with other people's coins and give you coins from another person)r. Chipmixer is the most used one around here.

It's 2019. Stop suggesting mixers. They've been broken for a long time.

LbtalkL

full member

Activity: 1176

Merit: 162

I used DEX to transfer my bitcoin to another wallet untraceable, DEX with multiple coins like shapeshift, i send my BTC and receive it to other coins like eth and turn it back to BTC by using same proccess but be aware it has some fees. It was a bit hassle I guess it could be done conveniently on Mixers.

GSpgh

sr. member

Activity: 532

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Quote from: coupable on November 18, 2019, 06:46:08 PM

What about CoinJoin? I advice you to try it. Easy method, use Wasabi wallet, you can send a CoinJoin transaction and you will receive new coins from an unknown address. CoinJoin is a wallet added feature to mix inputs from different senders and split into the output addresses. In simple words , You will receive btc from a different input from which it has originally sent.
You can always use Mixers as you can also use another anonymous blockchain like Grin or Monero.

CoinJoin doesn't send you coins from an unknown address, not exactly. It sends coins from a large set of inputs to a large set of outputs. The input set you're getting coins from includes your own inputs (keep in mind that it's trustless so your coins are sent and received in one TX and never leave your custody), it just makes it harder to prove which outputs are yours, depending on how many joins are there in the TX and what the amounts are. Wasabi tries to make the inputs and outputs identical in size so that also adds a bit of privacy but you can't mix amounts lower than ~0.1 BTC. Usually you need multiple rounds of CoinJoin to get a reasonable level of mixing. You also have to be extremely careful with what you do with change which is often an issue with Wasabi due to the 0.1 BTC minimum. Accidentaly merging change with clean coins can undo the mixing.

This is different from custodial mixing services that send you coins that are completely separete from your inputs and can usually handle odd amounts except chipmixer with its premade chips.

perkoo

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 1

I don't actually think that I want to use a mixer even if wasabi wallet seems to be a safe mixer (to not to be scamed).

Quote from: RapTarX on November 19, 2019, 08:38:58 AM

May be the articles are true or may not be. As per theymos, 100% anonymity isn't possible. Moreover, I have read a thread here where an user have showed breaking some of the mixing site.

One thing I don't get is how a user that broke some of the mixing sites can see if I transfer 0.1 coins from my wallet to a gambling site or an exchange and the sends 0.05 coins 2 (or another amount 3, 4, 5 .. X) times to my other wallet. Isn't that enough for him to lose his track on me?

theymos

administrator

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Quote from: DdmrDdmr on November 19, 2019, 03:42:41 AM

Relating to Mimblewimble and Grin, I’ve come across a couple of recent interesting reads, fresh from the oven:

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52
https://medium.com/grin-mimblewimble/factual-inaccuracies-of-breaking-mimblewimbles-privacy-model-8063371839b9 (counters arguments to the former link).

I don’t really know how much certainty the above articles provide, but it casts some doubt as to exactly how far the anonymity goes. At least if it’s what I was after, I’d keep reading these sort of articles for a few days to get a better idea of the extent.

AFAIK, that medium post is nothing new.

Base mimblewimble isn't really designed to be a "black box of reliable anonymity" in the way that Monero or Wasabi-CoinJoins are, where connections are hard-broken. It's more of a framework on which you could build solid anonymity using techniques that have largely not yet been perfected, plus major scaling benefits. Monero = CT + stealth addresses + ring signatures. Grin = CT + "stealth addresses" + mimblewimble. Because grin replaces ring signatures with mimblewimble, its privacy is less reliable than Monero's. Probably the grin developers have tried to make their mimblewimble transaction aggregation methods good, but I currently wouldn't put much faith in it, and IMO it'll take many years of research to get something really solid. That said, CT + stealth addresses offer a certain base level of privacy, and grin's method of handling stealth addresses (using an interactive protocol, exchanging "slates") is both more scalable than Monero and probably more private.

If your goal is to mix coins, grin is definitely not for you right now, and it may never be. Monero's goal is maximal privacy, regardless of the cost. Grin's goal is excellent privacy, consistent with scaling.

notblox1

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Quote from: 0xcosmos on November 18, 2019, 11:32:19 PM

you can also use services like shapeshift to convert your btc to another currency like xmr
and then convert xmr again to another btc wallet which will fulfill the purpose

I would not suggest using shapeshift because they have mandatory KYC.
That is not private at all as all your information is revealed.

LTU_btc

legendary

Activity: 3234

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Slava Ukraini!

Bitcoin isn't anonymous currency because all transactions are visible on Blockchain. I think that spliting your Bitcoins into multiple transactions won't help you much to stay anonymous. VPN also won't help you at all, because it only hides your real location, but all traces on Blockchain remains.
Probably only Bitcoin mixer can give best possible privacy. I'm not very familiar with privacy focused wallets mentioned above, but I doubt that they can give as much privacy as Bitcoin mixer does.

RapTarX

hero member

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Quote from: DdmrDdmr on November 19, 2019, 03:42:41 AM

I don’t really know how much certainty the above articles provide, but it casts some doubt as to exactly how far the anonymity goes. At least if it’s what I was after, I’d keep reading these sort of articles for a few days to get a better idea of the extent.

May be the articles are true or may not be. As per theymos, 100% anonymity isn't possible. Moreover, I have read a thread here where an user have showed breaking some of the mixing site.
I don't know much about MimbleWimble, if I am correct it's something which remove data from the blockchain which can ensure anonymity. I will not surprise if they have flaws because Monero as well have flaws which I have read a while back.
I would follow the theymos guideline which is the maximum level of anonymous transaction at the moment.

DdmrDdmr

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There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

Relating to Mimblewimble and Grin, I’ve come across a couple of recent interesting reads, fresh from the oven:

https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52
https://medium.com/grin-mimblewimble/factual-inaccuracies-of-breaking-mimblewimbles-privacy-model-8063371839b9 (counters arguments to the former link).

I don’t really know how much certainty the above articles provide, but it casts some doubt as to exactly how far the anonymity goes. At least if it’s what I was after, I’d keep reading these sort of articles for a few days to get a better idea of the extent.

Avirunes

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Quote from: 0xcosmos on November 18, 2019, 11:32:19 PM

you can also use services like shapeshift to convert your btc to another currency like xmr
and then convert xmr again to another btc wallet which will fulfill the purpose

There is no service which gives the anonymity level like mixer does. BTW you require account in shapeshift. If you want to do it that way then you can also do it by depositing in a gambling site and then withdraw (you get escape a lot of fees compared to the shapeshift way you mentioned). But even in case of gambling or services there is a little bit of info. present like your email id while in case of mixers they don't ask that mostly

Quote

you can also buy some hashrate in nicehash and use that to mine some coins through the pool and receive completely new generated coins in your another wallet

Mining contains risk so not really an option to go with. There is a possibility that user might lose significant portion of balance.

0xcosmos

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you can also use services like shapeshift to convert your btc to another currency like xmr
and then convert xmr again to another btc wallet which will fulfill the purpose

you can also buy some hashrate in nicehash and use that to mine some coins through the pool and receive completely new generated coins in your another wallet

ice18

hero member

Activity: 2492

Merit: 542

Probably what you are looking is a bitcoin mixer service if you are asking for a total anonymity, theres a lot of trusted bitcoin mixing service out there check out this thread by @LeGaulois https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2023-list-bitcoin-mixers-bitcoin-tumblers-websites-2827109

Bttzed03

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https://bitcoincleanup.com/

Theymos created a guide for decent mixing methods.

He also mentioned Wasabi like what others have said and also Monero.

Thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-decent-mixing-methods-5146241
(Read the comments as well.)

tranthidung

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Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: coupable on November 18, 2019, 06:46:08 PM

What about CoinJoin?

CoinJoin is one of best solutions but the level of privacy people get for their transactions depend on how they use CoinJoin, before and after mixing.

By now, there are less than 6000 CoinJoin transactions (5373 more exactly) that is surely not an impressive figure.

There are Wasabi and Samourai wallets but if one asks me I will suggest to use Wasabi wallet.
There are some important notes for Wasabi wallet, one of them is choosing bech32-support wallets with coin control features.

Quote from: tranthidung on September 13, 2019, 03:35:02 AM

Wasabi wallet implement bitcoin transactions through Coinjoin inputs and Coinjoin outputs, but the wallet is unable to know which outputs of belong to which inputs. This is why it brings more privacy to users.
Practice of coin control after mixing will identify the level of privacy users have. That depends on practice of users, not the Wasabi wallet.
Wasabi wallet uses Tor by default, and users don't have to set up Tor. ^a

Do not turn off Tor in Settings, because it might damage their privacy by IP address.
Verify first, before installing
Wasabi wallet only generate Bench32 address (with prefix bc1 at the start of address), but unable to send BTC to other Bench32 address
Don't send all of your bitcoins to a new wallet, instead import your seeds into new wallet in order to protect your privacy.

I have a thread on this issue: Enhanced privacy with Wasabi & Samourai wallets

HCP

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Quote from: perkoo on November 18, 2019, 04:55:29 PM

I will ofc use a vpn. But is there anything else that I should do?

Depends on what wallet you're sending from... it's quite possible that your privacy is already gone.

As mentioned above... the two best options for trying to "anonymize" your transactions are:

1. Use a mixer/tumbler like ChipMixer
or
2. Use a "CoinJoin" wallet like Wasabi

There are a lot of scam mixers around... ChipMixer is reliable, but there are a lot of scams that use similar URLs etc, so be careful and don't rely on Google searches as it is a common way for people to click the wrong links. I'd recommend visiting their announcement thread on BitcoinTalk here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-chipmixercom-bitcoin-mixer-bitcoin-tumbler-mixing-reinvented-1935098

dkbit98

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Quote from: perkoo on November 18, 2019, 04:55:29 PM

What is the the best and most anonymous way to move X bitcoins to another wallet?
Does it really matter to split it up in eg. 0.1-0.9 bitcoins per transaction? Or is there "services" that scanning the blockchain for transactions over eg 1 bitcoin? And how frequently can I do the transactions?

I will ofc use a vpn. But is there anything else that I should do?

Safest way is to use privacy oriented wallets for this:

1. Wasabi
https://www.wasabiwallet.io/

2. Samourai
https://samouraiwallet.com/

*Note: You will have to pay extra fee for this

PS
Developers are working on more ways to make Bitcoin transaction private,
and I hope to see more options soon:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/snicker-new-privacy-for-bitcoin-transactions-5201602

coupable

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What about CoinJoin? I advice you to try it. Easy method, use Wasabi wallet, you can send a CoinJoin transaction and you will receive new coins from an unknown address. CoinJoin is a wallet added feature to mix inputs from different senders and split into the output addresses. In simple words , You will receive btc from a different input from which it has originally sent.
You can always use Mixers as you can also use another anonymous blockchain like Grin or Monero.

BitMaxz

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Playbet.io - Crypto Casino and Sportsbook

If you want to transfer your BTC anonymously without traces use a mixer/tumbler like chipmixer it is under my signature.
Split transaction does matter in mixer but since you are using Chipmixer I think you don't need to split the transaction once you send the BTC to the chipmixer the traces stop there and they will give you a token(With new and clean coins) after one confirmation where you can redeem anytime you want.

I suggest you to use the Electrum wallet to sweep the mixed BTC or import the private key from Chipmixer then send it to a new wallet in Electrum.
With or without VPN your coins traces are broken you don't need to worry about your transaction period.

Just make sure to download the real Electrum directly from this Electrum.org original website.

bitmover

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Quote from: perkoo on November 18, 2019, 04:55:29 PM

What is the the best and most anonymous way to move X bitcoins to another wallet?
Does it really matter to split it up in eg. 0.1-0.9 bitcoins per transaction? Or is there "services" that scanning the blockchain for transactions over eg 1 bitcoin? And how frequently can I do the transactions?

I will ofc use a vpn. But is there anything else that I should do?

There are services like walletexplorer.com that scan the blockchain for every transaction , no matter the size.

The best way to get some anonymity is using a mixer (hey will mix your coins with other people's coins and give you coins from another person)r. Chipmixer is the most used one around here.

Deathwing

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VPN won't really get you anywhere. You can split, do it in one go, there is no limit on "frequency" however if you want to be absolutely safe (though this is debatable as there is no "absolute privacy" in Bitcoin as everything is traceable through the blockchain) you can utilise services like ChipMixer and such. They are the biggest and possibly the safest mixing service that should increase your anonymity.

perkoo

newbie

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What is the the best and most anonymous way to move X bitcoins to another wallet?
Does it really matter to split it up in eg. 0.1-0.9 bitcoins per transaction? Or is there "services" that scanning the blockchain for transactions over eg 1 bitcoin? And how frequently can I do the transactions?

I will ofc use a vpn. But is there anything else that I should do?

Topic: Move bitcoins anonymous to another wallet (Read 343 times)