Topic: Mt Gox Endgame (Read 4223 times)

Think deeper. What is the market in this case? Who might control or influence it?

Until we define our terms, and market is a critical term, we don't really know what we are dealing with.

The market is saying, based on the current BTC price,  that the probability is 20% of survival.

Never put your destiny in other's hands. It may seem smart but is a loser's strategy.

AMEN!!!!!

KEEP
CALM
AND
SEE
WHAT
HAPPENS

ok, so what can we do about it?

I agree.  Just like the regular stock market, it's the uncertainty which is driving the prices down.

what gox is doing makes absolutely no sense if the reasons gox is giving for their behaviour where true.

there is obviously something going on which is not talked about in public.
whatever it is it is important enough to let conspiracy theories and accusations of criminal behavior against gox be worth it.

most people would see a classic mix of greed and incompetence as the most plausible reason,
but there are several other options which could explain the gox behaviour.

e.g.:
criminal investigations inside:
 linked to sr1 and funding of other illegal activities (think guns, drugs or simply money laundry - there is obviously a giant market for that) are going on inside gox - investigators just go through all accounts and see who has more money (or btc) than they could possibly explain. They have gox by the balls as non-compliance can be used as a prison-time threat against mk.

the survival of the gox exchange or even the survival of the btc itself is probably considered less important than catching terrorists and mafiosi.

either way, in a system which is based as much on trust as btc, it keeps surprising me on a daily basis how anyone would want to do business via gox after the fiat withdrawal problems started and where never fixed.

so again it is greed and ingnorance, but also on the client side.

We should go to Washington en masse and demand that the exchanges be regulated (but not overegulated either in a way that kills them that way).

If the Bitcoin community does not take control of cleaning up the bad actors, past, present and future BY HAVING SYSTEMS PUT IN PLACE WHICH PREVENT ABUSE WITH BITCOIN, then bitcoin will not survive, nor should it survive if we do not care enough about it to take collective decisive positive action as a community.

Right now we are blaming everyone else, including Mt. Gox, but at a certain point that becomes wasted energy. There are so many bad (and/or incompetent) actors, perhaps, that it shows that we have not done our job as a community to make sure that there is a police force to catch the bad guys, and set up the system so that it becomes almost impossible to cheat or do bad things in the first place.

No one gets good things in life unless they earn them. Bitcoin is in the communities hands, to a large degree, I believe, in regard to whether it survives or fails, and we have collectively been an utter failure at that so far, as circumstances and events illustrate.

It seems to me that the key and fundamental issue here (or at least one of them) is that no one seems to really KNOW FOR SURE what is going on with Mt. Gox, so there is a lot of speculation.

If the exchanges were regulated, Bitcoin could be at $2000 today because TRUST is the key issue keeping the price down.

The exchanges must be transparent and it is up to us as the Bitcoin community to band together to insure that that happens.

If we want Bitcoin to survive.

I'm more concerned someone walks away with the hot wallet and cold wallet while the protestors go to get their license, that said the livefeed is down while they get a license to protest in Japan.

Fairly friendly police in my opinion all other things considered
Contrast that with US police at a peaceful protest lol.

The reason that MtGox "fix" their system so slowly with various kind of excuses of delay is that, it is very clear that after this crisis, MtGox will lose at least 80% of its customers, due to the harm it made to the bitcoin market, it may not be able to continue its business. Mark will not allow this to happen, he will never give you the chance to abandon it. Since now the money and coins are at his hand, he takes the control first.

What is going to happen is, in the next few weeks, MtGox will continue arbitraging from GoxBtc and real Btc, to make big profit as well as their trading fees, when they don't have huge volumns any more, and other exchange's bitcoin rates are similar to theirs so there is no chance for arbitraging, then they will make the final decision, to allow withdrawal with limits, and then close the business, with the piles of dollars, they will disappear from bitcoin world.

That's a good idea. Are there any similar shows in Japan?

Exactly.  The current BTC price at Mt.Gox is designed to rip-off customers. 

it won't, there will probably be some civil suits which mtgox will settle and make it go away by throwing a few pennies at them.  In the real financial world if such event occurs, the BOJ will step in and perform a full audit to determine if any laws (the equivalent of the glass steagall act in the us)  are broken where the firm performed trades using client's money without their consent, but there is no such regulations/controls for bitcoins in japan or anywhere.  

So those criminals like mark karpeles will get away free and clear, also with a good legal case in court, while a massive amount of customer's wealth is wiped and much worse - the reputational damage it will inflict on bitcoin as a whole as anyone outside - the mom&pop shops and ceos of retail companies will only read the headlines "bitcoin crashing, exchange shuts withdraw etc.." without understanding the actual details.

I can't believe mark is still on the bitcoin foundation board, i lost a tremendous amount of respect for the foundation and will not be donating anything going forward to them, it is crystal clear as day what this criminal is doing to his customers and to bitcoin as a whole, yet the foundation remains static.

What honest exchange would leave the trading engine running under these conditions. This is the biggest giveaway for me.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

Live right now

It's an unregulated exchange. Their motive to remain "proper" includes a desire for future profits and wanting to stay alive.

although we don't know the full outcome of this debacle , wouldn't it be great to have Mark Karpeles featured on an episode of American Greed ?

They are probably not doing that, imo.
I think they have money and will recover eventually as a "top 5" exchange.