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Topic: MTGOX <-> BTC BID/ASK - page 39. (Read 74859 times)

hero member
Activity: 579
Merit: 500
CoinQuacker
February 11, 2014, 04:33:21 PM
Unfortunately the price of Bitcoin on Gox is influenced by a lot of other factors like some people thinking $ will be easier to get out in a bankruptcy, people trading the money they can't do anything else with etc.

When you could move BTC and the price on Gox was 15% higher than Coinbase I am sure you would not make the conclusion that BTC on Mt. Gox was 15% safer than on Coinbase because you would get more coins on Coinbase for the same amount...

I would use the following method to price these deals:

- MtGox was 15% higher when BTC worked and fiat worked as well as it supposedly does now (there is no evidence that any fiat has been sent out since long time but let's believe there is). Since coins had the same value as in Bitstamp, we must conclude that GoxBux were appraised at 1/1.15 = 0.87.

- Now neither works. So we take the discount of GoxBTC relative to BitstampBTC (currently 570/642 = 0.89) and multiply it with the purchasing power of GoxBTC: 0.89*0.87 = 0.77.

We can conclude that GoxBTC should have 77% of the value of BitstampBTC.

Prior to DDOS, BitstampBTC was = blockchain BTC. If you believe that the DDOS causes BitstampBTC to be in a discount, apply this discount to the equation, which results in a slightly lower value.


this is very close to actual price, so the theory does work well, at least in matching the conclusion. 
hero member
Activity: 579
Merit: 500
CoinQuacker
February 11, 2014, 04:31:04 PM
it's kind of interesting that the open market price for BTC over the last 2+ days has been VERY volatile, and in the gox/BTC market, individuals in this forum have kept a pretty tight ask of roughly ~0.75 per gox coin. The former has millions of players and the latter has maybe 50 so conventional economic theory is it would be reversed.

Just interesting price theory, I'm not making a statement that I think it is low or high. The market is always right, after all!
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
February 11, 2014, 04:12:35 PM
Unfortunately the price of Bitcoin on Gox is influenced by a lot of other factors like some people thinking $ will be easier to get out in a bankruptcy, people trading the money they can't do anything else with etc.

When you could move BTC and the price on Gox was 15% higher than Coinbase I am sure you would not make the conclusion that BTC on Mt. Gox was 15% safer than on Coinbase because you would get more coins on Coinbase for the same amount...

I would use the following method to price these deals:

- MtGox was 15% higher when BTC worked and fiat worked as well as it supposedly does now (there is no evidence that any fiat has been sent out since long time but let's believe there is). Since coins had the same value as in Bitstamp, we must conclude that GoxBux were appraised at 1/1.15 = 0.87.

- Now neither works. So we take the discount of GoxBTC relative to BitstampBTC (currently 570/642 = 0.89) and multiply it with the purchasing power of GoxBTC: 0.89*0.87 = 0.77.

We can conclude that GoxBTC should have 77% of the value of BitstampBTC.

Prior to DDOS, BitstampBTC was = blockchain BTC. If you believe that the DDOS causes BitstampBTC to be in a discount, apply this discount to the equation, which results in a slightly lower value.
full member
Activity: 123
Merit: 100
February 11, 2014, 04:12:10 PM
Just letting people know you can now see the open order book right on the front page of https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/ and the highest current bid is .73 BTC per Gox BTC!
sr. member
Activity: 465
Merit: 254
February 11, 2014, 03:53:14 PM
Unfortunately the price of Bitcoin on Gox is influenced by a lot of other factors like some people thinking $ will be easier to get out in a bankruptcy, people trading the money they can't do anything else with etc.

When you could move BTC and the price on Gox was 15% higher than Coinbase I am sure you would not make the conclusion that BTC on Mt. Gox was 15% safer than on Coinbase because you would get more coins on Coinbase for the same amount...

hero member
Activity: 579
Merit: 500
CoinQuacker
February 11, 2014, 03:17:09 PM
The parity you are trying to use does not work when you are not able to move either $ or BTC out of Gox. If you could move one of those out you could use your logic, like when you could move BTC out you could use the equilibrium to find that Mt gox $ was worth about 85% of real $. However when you can't get either out the ratios does really not say anything anymore.

I was thinking the other way if I had $690 to spend I could go to coinbase and own 1.0 btc or put it in gox and get 1.19 stipulating I don't have the ability to get it out and the price difference IS THE IMPLIED RISK.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1057
bigtimespaghetti.com
February 11, 2014, 03:06:10 PM
4 Goxcoins, asking 3 real. Sold- thanks!

Completed one trade with johnscoins already.

My rep thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bigtimespaghetti-reputation-thread-237581

Can provide my eBayuser profile too.
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 02:09:05 PM
And now Bitstamp stopped btc withdrawals to.....
sr. member
Activity: 465
Merit: 254
February 11, 2014, 01:33:45 PM
The parity you are trying to use does not work when you are not able to move either $ or BTC out of Gox. If you could move one of those out you could use your logic, like when you could move BTC out you could use the equilibrium to find that Mt gox $ was worth about 85% of real $. However when you can't get either out the ratios does really not say anything anymore.
hero member
Activity: 579
Merit: 500
CoinQuacker
February 11, 2014, 01:20:05 PM
Your 83.3% price is not correct because:
If you had $580 right now at Gox you could buy 1 BTC, sell it to someone for 0.833BTC and sell it at coinbase for $575, pretty much moving money out of Gox for free.

exactly, this is parity because the original thesis is that the price in Gox (580) is less than CB (690) due to this implied risk.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 01:19:32 PM
I agree that the price should be less than 70%.

Bitstamp has just suspended bitcoin withdrawals so make sure that you don't exchange your goxxed coins for coins on Bitstamp!

https://www.bitstamp.net/article/bitcoin-withdraws-suspended/
sr. member
Activity: 465
Merit: 254
February 11, 2014, 12:53:48 PM
Current coinbase bid: 690
current gox 580

so that ratio yields ~5.031 for 6 coins.

This does not account for the risk that you might never get your $ out of Mt. Gox. The risk of that before all this started seemed to be priced by the market at 15% (probably higher now). That's why you will have a hard time selling your coins for 5 real BTC.

Your 83.3% price is not correct because:
If you had $580 right now at Gox you could buy 1 BTC, sell it to someone for 0.833BTC and sell it at coinbase for $575, pretty much moving money out of Gox for free. You will not find anyone who prefer $580 at Gox instead of $575 at Coinbase.

If you assume only 80% chance you might get your money out of Gox the correct market rate for Gox/Real is:
(580*80%) / 690 = 0.67 which is indeed much closer to what seems to be the going rate of 70%.
hero member
Activity: 579
Merit: 500
CoinQuacker
February 11, 2014, 12:02:02 PM
6 gox coins at the ready. Asking 5.

The market seems to have settled down and offered a true market price for gox coins. For me, this means what I could sell for at coinbase with 100% confidence as compared to the gox market price.

Current coinbase bid: 690
current gox 580

so that ratio yields ~5.031 for 6 coins.

I will entertain offers that remain close to this spread, otherwise, it is worth it for me to ride out the gox unknowns.

I recently had a successful exchange with johnscoin. This was the mechanism:

- Bitcointalk PM as the communication mechanism
- he sent over real BTC (fired the first shot across the bow, so to speak).
- After > 0 confirmation I sent a gox coin
- we continued until the exchange was done (6 real BTC), all at his comfort level (0.75 - 1.5 btc per shot)
- any snags, errors, late blockchain show-ups, you'll get requisite gox coins or BTC refund, your call (refund only once gox acct is 0 of course).
- be patient, you will not get screwed, and you can expect the same from me

Happy trading friends!
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 12:01:05 PM
Im a BUYER of goxBTC.   

Sorry for being unclear.
Still lots of fresh BTC here!
legendary
Activity: 1011
Merit: 1006
February 11, 2014, 11:58:16 AM
Want to sell 73 goxBTC for only 850K nextcoins (NXT).
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 11:03:08 AM
I offer 10BTC for 15GOX.

I will give 10.5 BTC for your 15 MtGox and use 3rd party escrow.
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 10:55:19 AM
I offer 10BTC for 15GOX.


legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
February 11, 2014, 10:44:27 AM
lulz I just realized Mt Gox could buy its user's goxBTC for less realBTC and come up with an insane profit  Cheesy

Heh! :-)

Ente
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
February 11, 2014, 08:03:04 AM
I offer 15 GOXBTC for 12 real BTC.

PM me if interested. or Skype : schnibl0r

I got a well known good reputation all over the internet.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
February 11, 2014, 07:54:41 AM
lulz I just realized Mt Gox could buy its user's goxBTC for less realBTC and come up with an insane profit  Cheesy

Good catch, and they're douchy enough to do that too.
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