Topic: MTGOX: enable SEPA withdraw (Read 3751 times)
What you say is true; but my complaint was the unnecessary requirement to have a notary signature, which is not simple to get and can be expensive.
For example, here's what a forex company wants for supporting documents
http://www.fxcm.co.uk/spread-betting-account.jsp#step2
- Photocopy of government ID
- Proof of residence -- recent bills from major utilities
The website you quote says:
A proof of residence dated within six months for the address indicated on the application. (PO Boxes are not acceptable.)
Please note that we are unable to accept any statement or bill that has not been received in its entirety. Information such as the billing name and address must be visible, as well as the company that has issued the bill. Your document must not be folded. Payment stubs are not acceptable, as they display limited information. Confidential information, such as an account number(s), may be removed at your own discretion.
Examples of this include a:
• Gas bill• Electric bill• Telephone bill• Mortgage bill• Credit card statement• Bank statement• Current lease agreement
See, they explicitly accept bank statements, while MtGox doesn't, which makes it impossible to verify for a whole lot of people who don't own or lease any house where they pay bills. Actually probably more then half of the worlds population will not be able to satisfy MtGox requirements, look: at every house usually several people live, and only one of them pays the bills. And the rest? Are out of luck for MtGox accounts... I've seen no other financial institution which doesn't accept bank statements for that purpose.
I cant find the answer , maybe I'm blind . So do the world a favor and help a blind man.
NO, YOU CAN NOT WITHDRAW WITH SEPA ON MTGOX, ONLY DEPOSIT(afaik)use intersango for sepa transfers.
i have been a huge mtgox fan in the past, but their service sucks now, abandon them and let their bad support hurt their wallets.
I cant find the answer , maybe I'm blind . So do the world a favor and help a blind man.
then go read their website! NOOBS! or even this thread!
ETA on SEPA withdraw? Will it ever become an option ?
Re-bought BTC, bought 2 5970 and will sell the rest on Bitmarket.eu.
I won't say "never again", but will certainly try to avoid mtgox from now on.
EDIT: 200 euros withdraw, 158 received. International sucks.
hi- anything to do with gov, banks, corps etc sucks. we are only still getting involved with their rules because as yet we do not have annonymous BTC outlets- the sooner we have a BTC credit card under our own control and purchace "stuff" with this only -the better in my opinion. reg
I won't say "never again", but will certainly try to avoid mtgox from now on.
EDIT: 200 euros withdraw, 158 received. International sucks.
hi- anything to do with gov, banks, corps etc sucks. we are only still getting involved with their rules because as yet we do not have annonymous BTC outlets- the sooner we have a BTC credit card under our own control and purchace "stuff" with this only -the better in my opinion. reg
Re-bought BTC, bought 2 5970 and will sell the rest on Bitmarket.eu.
I won't say "never again", but will certainly try to avoid mtgox from now on.
EDIT: 200 euros withdraw, 158 received. International sucks.
I won't say "never again", but will certainly try to avoid mtgox from now on.
EDIT: 200 euros withdraw, 158 received. International sucks.
I find it hard to belive this considering I have been an amateur gambler for many years and have had to do this for Betfair, SportsInteraction, Bet365, and WilliamHill.
I don't think you understand what this issue is about. Asking for ID or proof of residence is very standard but this has little to do with that. Mt. Gox is asking for Apostille certificated documents, the usual procedure of scanning and sending documents does not apply anymore. These "Apostille" documents require you to go to a local authority and possibly pay a significant fee to get what you need. In some countries it can be difficult to get one even if you wanted to.Thank you for understanding the situation...
Who said i didn't? I do! You need more proof that i am the real owner.
Tell me what more documents you need and i will provide them.
Telling me you don't know when you will enable SEPA withdraw is not the answer.
It's honestly about time they started doing this. It's pretty standard everywhere else that when you can't directly sight ID documents the copies must be notarised by someone authorised to do so.
It's not standard. I've never in my life had to submit 3rd party verified documents to anywhere and I've been a professional gambler for many years. This is in fact the first time I've heard of a site that has this requirement. I've used a large number of online payment processors and online casinos, ranging from small to very large. This is perhaps the standard at a Swiss bank but no, I can pretty much guarantee that it's not the standard in general.I find it hard to belive this considering I have been an amateur gambler for many years and have had to do this for Betfair, SportsInteraction, Bet365, and WilliamHill.
Seriously -- a signature on an "Apostille"? There are reports that that would cost about $60 -- plus thanks to their crazy "for the purposes of Mt.Gox" requirement, that signature would be useless for any other purpose in the future.
I wasn't saying that the passport+electricity bill could be removed; I was saying that the signature from a notary could be removed, and replaced with the digital signature of another verified Mt.Gox user and be just as good.
Let's remember that what they're trying to fight against is that someone photoshops a passport and electricity bill. The physical signature is to verify that real documents exist. That can be done using a web-of-trust system, since once someone is verified you can send the cops round when they commit fraud... that would include saying you saw a real passport when you didn't.
Jeez, offer verified customers a couple of bitcoins to act as a physical document verifier.
+100 I wasn't saying that the passport+electricity bill could be removed; I was saying that the signature from a notary could be removed, and replaced with the digital signature of another verified Mt.Gox user and be just as good.
Let's remember that what they're trying to fight against is that someone photoshops a passport and electricity bill. The physical signature is to verify that real documents exist. That can be done using a web-of-trust system, since once someone is verified you can send the cops round when they commit fraud... that would include saying you saw a real passport when you didn't.
Jeez, offer verified customers a couple of bitcoins to act as a physical document verifier.
they require the same thing as mtgox: passport + electricity bill.
i don't think that a gpg signature, even though its more binding, can a substitute for passport + electricity bill, in a bureaucrats mind.
i don't think that a gpg signature, even though its more binding, can a substitute for passport + electricity bill, in a bureaucrats mind.
Perhaps you should reread my suggestion; and reread what Mt.Gox is asking for.
Quote
Due to a increased amount of forged documents being received by our AML department, we will be adding extra provisions to our AML requirements starting immediately.
Going forward:
Please be advised that documents received without the above may not be accepted as valid account approval documentation.
Going forward:
- Your notarization must include the wording “Notarization for the purpose of verifying on MtGox.com”
- Notarization alone will not suffice; we need an Apostille. Notaries can do this in most countries (please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_convention)
Please be advised that documents received without the above may not be accepted as valid account approval documentation.
Seriously -- a signature on an "Apostille"? There are reports that that would cost about $60 -- plus thanks to their crazy "for the purposes of Mt.Gox" requirement, that signature would be useless for any other purpose in the future.
I wasn't saying that the passport+electricity bill could be removed; I was saying that the signature from a notary could be removed, and replaced with the digital signature of another verified Mt.Gox user and be just as good.
Let's remember that what they're trying to fight against is that someone photoshops a passport and electricity bill. The physical signature is to verify that real documents exist. That can be done using a web-of-trust system, since once someone is verified you can send the cops round when they commit fraud... that would include saying you saw a real passport when you didn't.
Jeez, offer verified customers a couple of bitcoins to act as a physical document verifier.
- Supply a field in each Mt.Gox account for a PGP public key
- ...
It only needs Mt.Gox; not any external authority.
There is no "rule" that you must get your documents signed by a notary. I suspect Mt.Gox are overcorrecting so they don't get in trouble in the future. I'm merely arguing that they could overcorrect a different way... a bitcoin way.
For example, here's what a forex company wants for supporting documents
http://www.fxcm.co.uk/spread-betting-account.jsp#step2
- Photocopy of government ID
- Proof of residence -- recent bills from major utilities
i don't think that a gpg signature, even though its more binding, can a substitute for passport + electricity bill, in a bureaucrats mind.
- Supply a field in each Mt.Gox account for a PGP public key
- ...
It only needs Mt.Gox; not any external authority.
There is no "rule" that you must get your documents signed by a notary. I suspect Mt.Gox are overcorrecting so they don't get in trouble in the future. I'm merely arguing that they could overcorrect a different way... a bitcoin way.
For example, here's what a forex company wants for supporting documents
http://www.fxcm.co.uk/spread-betting-account.jsp#step2
- Photocopy of government ID
- Proof of residence -- recent bills from major utilities
I switched to intersango, I don't like the price, but it's better than NOT being able to withdraw.
why withdraw? can't you just not exchange them to local money, locally? legendary
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I switched to intersango, I don't like the price, but it's better than NOT being able to withdraw.
- Supply a field in each Mt.Gox account for a PGP public key
- ...
It only needs Mt.Gox; not any external authority.
- Supply a field in each Mt.Gox account for a PGP public key
- ...
It only needs Mt.Gox; not any external authority.
Why not do something better though?
For example: in the UK when you sign someone else's passport application (and the back of their photo) you must supply your own passport number.
In other words, they're creating a web of trust (about 20 years late).
We're on the cutting edge with Bitcoins; why are we doing things the old fashioned way? And why trust notary signatures from some random lawyer you don't know half way around the world?
Here's a suggestion:
Bitcoin users usually know each other (it's a word-of-mouth technology); so there is huge scope for this sort of thing.
When the feds come knocking, you have a chain of signatures, both digital and real, that can lead you back to someone who was verified by sight of a passport, or whatever AML documents you want.
For example: in the UK when you sign someone else's passport application (and the back of their photo) you must supply your own passport number.
In other words, they're creating a web of trust (about 20 years late).
We're on the cutting edge with Bitcoins; why are we doing things the old fashioned way? And why trust notary signatures from some random lawyer you don't know half way around the world?
Here's a suggestion:
- Supply a field in each Mt.Gox account for a PGP public key
- Verify an account with a public key with whatever meat-space mechanism you like
- Supply a field to allow upload of a photo of a signature
- Verified user-A signs (physically) the notary document for unverified user B; takes a photo and signs that photo with their PGP key. User-B can upload this photo + digital signature at their leisure.
- Mt.Gox can now compare the digitally-signed photo of User-A's pen-signature against the digitally-signed photo of the signature on User-B's proof-of-identity.
- User-B uploads their public key, which user-A will have signed as well.
Bitcoin users usually know each other (it's a word-of-mouth technology); so there is huge scope for this sort of thing.
When the feds come knocking, you have a chain of signatures, both digital and real, that can lead you back to someone who was verified by sight of a passport, or whatever AML documents you want.
That is an excellent idea
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