MTGOX Statement *NEW MAR 3RD* - page 3.

bitserve

legendary

Activity: 1862

Merit: 1530

Self made HODLER ✓

Quote from: murraypaul on March 03, 2014, 10:10:20 AM

If you read carefully, that isn't what it says.
It says:
a) At the start of February, there was an increase in incomplete transfers, which caused them to investigate
b) When they investigated, they found that 850,000 coins were missing
They don't say that the 850,000 coins were transferred in February, just that that was when the first noticed that coins were being transferred. The transfers could have been happening for months or years before that without them noticing.

If you choose to believe what MtGox says as truth, you can also consider true their claims that they were "AT ALL TIMES" accounting for BTC and FIAT balances.

Hmmmm, no, you CAN'T consider them both to be true, its logically IMPOSSIBLE.

Anyway... We are still waiting for them to report at which exact time the balace discrepancy started. That's very easy to prove forensically matching internal accounting data with blockchain ledger.

alan929

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

On the same day (24th), we found out large discrepancies between the amount of cash held in financial institutions and the amount deposited from our users. The amounts are still under investigation and may vary but they approximate JPY 2.8 billion.
We are investigating the causes of these problems. Since there are probably a variety of causes including hacking by third parties, we need to investigate a huge amount of transaction reports in order to establish the truth. As of this date, we cannot confirm the exact amount of missing deposit funds and the total amount of bitcoins which disappeared.
Once we discovered that bitcoins had disappeared and the discrepancies between cash funds and deposit balances, we judged that it would be difficult to continue our activities normally and we therefore closed our site at noon on the 25th (Japan time).

OK. So as a financial guy.....Here is my question. It's one thing to get hacked and lose 100s of thousands of BTC.
How is the CASH on the 24th missing? Shouldn't this have been audited on a daily basis, a weekly basis perhaps, but certainly on a monthly basis. To say OOP...we lost 2.8 JPY is the most troubling thing here for me.

Money Raccoon

member

Activity: 67

Merit: 10

Quote from: davida on March 03, 2014, 08:22:50 AM

So, for less than 30 million usd technically a new owner could step in and restore all mtgox balances and continue business as normal? (i say normal, obviously would have a lot of trust to regain)

Surely in the long term some smart investors would be all over that???

You're forgetting about the cost of replacing the "lost" 800btc. No one is buying MtGox unless they're recovered.

murraypaul

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Loozik on March 03, 2014, 03:44:57 AM

Quote from: casinocoin on March 03, 2014, 01:53:10 AM

At the start of February 2014, illegal access through the abuse of a bug in the bitcoin system resulted in an increase in incomplete bitcoin transfer transactions and we discovered that there was a possibility that bitcoins had been illicitly moved through the abuse of this bug.
As a result of our internal investigation, we found that a large amount of bitcoins had disappeared. Although the complete extent is not yet known, we found that approximately 750,000 bitcoins deposited by users and approximately 100,000 bitcoins belonging to us had disappeared.
We believe that there is a high probability that these bitcoins were stolen as a result of an abuse of this bug and we have asked an expert to look at the possibility of a criminal complaint and undertake proper procedures.

So the hack took place between 1 Feb 2014 and 6 Feb 2014 (6 Feb is I believe when btc withdrawals were halted at Gox). During less than a week 850,000 were stolen.

If you read carefully, that isn't what it says.
It says:
a) At the start of February, there was an increase in incomplete transfers, which caused them to investigate
b) When they investigated, they found that 850,000 coins were missing
They don't say that the 850,000 coins were transferred in February, just that that was when they first noticed that coins were being transferred. The transfers could have been happening for months or years before that without them noticing.

fryarminer

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

I feel so sorry for those phone operators. This could officially make all of Japan hate bitcoin forever haha!

frito

full member

Activity: 129

Merit: 100

In order to increase repayments to our creditors, it is necessary to explore the possibility of having MtGox Co., Ltd. continue its business. This is why the civil rehabilitation procedure has been chosen, Rebuilding MtGox Co., Ltd under the supervision of the court in a legally organized procedure while giving proper explanations will not be for the sole benefit of the company but for that of the whole bitcoin community.
All efforts will now be made to restore the business and recover damages to repay debts to creditors. We hope for the understanding and cooperation of all.

I wanna be a shareholder and change the firm name to fritoX

frito

full member

Activity: 129

Merit: 100

Quote from: Rampion on March 03, 2014, 09:41:40 AM

Quote from: electronistul on March 03, 2014, 09:28:09 AM

I'm fascinated how nobody reports back on this forum (or I'm idiotic enough to not have found the relevant thread around here yet) on telephone inquiries.
I mean, ffs, they did list a couple of telephone numbers on their "press release", one of them was for English speaking customers, some thousand people must have already called over there - did they say anything at all ?!
I would probably pop only the relevant Qs at hand:
- "Will MtGox reimburse anything ?"
- "Will I get back a fraction of the fiat/BTC I had on my account at the time you wiped the site off the internet ?"
- "Was Karpeles buying some ~6k coins on Stamp earlier today so he could free his family from wrongdoers ?"
- "Are you (the telephone operator) gay ?"
- "Does God exist?"
... and some others I can swiftly think of ... Undecided

Here a link to a Gox call center conversation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJt-MpoTP4

sounds like karpeleses nurse moonlighting

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: electronistul on March 03, 2014, 09:28:09 AM

I'm fascinated how nobody reports back on this forum (or I'm idiotic enough to not have found the relevant thread around here yet) on telephone inquiries.
I mean, ffs, they did list a couple of telephone numbers on their "press release", one of them was for English speaking customers, some thousand people must have already called over there - did they say anything at all ?!
I would probably pop only the relevant Qs at hand:
- "Will MtGox reimburse anything ?"
- "Will I get back a fraction of the fiat/BTC I had on my account at the time you wiped the site off the internet ?"
- "Was Karpeles buying some ~6k coins on Stamp earlier today so he could free his family from wrongdoers ?"
- "Are you (the telephone operator) gay ?"
- "Does God exist?"
... and some others I can swiftly think of ... Undecided

Here a link to a Gox call center conversation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJt-MpoTP4

fryarminer

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Quote from: electronistul on March 03, 2014, 09:28:09 AM

I'm fascinated how nobody reports back on this forum (or I'm idiotic enough to not have found the relevant thread around here yet) on telephone inquiries.
I mean, ffs, they did list a couple of telephone numbers on their "press release", one of them was for English speaking customers, some thousand people must have already called over there - did they say anything at all ?!
I would probably pop only the relevant Qs at hand:
- "Will MtGox reimburse anything ?"
- "Will I get back a fraction of the fiat/BTC I had on my account at the time you wiped the site off the internet ?"
- "Was Karpeles buying some ~6k coins on Stamp earlier today so he could free his family from wrongdoers ?"
- "Are you (the telephone operator) gay ?"
- "Does God exist?"
... and some others I can swiftly think of ... Undecided

Someone did report last evening on a different thread. All they did was refer him to the website.

electronistul

full member

Activity: 160

Merit: 100

I'm fascinated how nobody reports back on this forum (or I'm idiotic enough to not have found the relevant thread around here yet) on telephone inquiries.
I mean, ffs, they did list a couple of telephone numbers on their "press release", one of them was for English speaking customers, some thousand people must have already called over there - did they say anything at all ?!
I would probably pop only the relevant Qs at hand:
- "Will MtGox reimburse anything ?"
- "Will I get back a fraction of the fiat/BTC I had on my account at the time you wiped the site off the internet ?"
- "Was Karpeles buying some ~6k coins on Stamp earlier today so he could free his family from wrongdoers ?"
- "Are you (the telephone operator) gay ?"
- "Does God exist?"
... and some others I can swiftly think of ... Undecided

exocytosis

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: fryarminer on March 03, 2014, 05:57:41 AM

"These are now investigated by an expert"
I just hope that this single "expert" has any idea what bitcoin is.

The expert is called Mark Karpeles.

exocytosis

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Artlover on March 03, 2014, 02:32:21 AM

Given he apparently left France in a hurry, moving to Japan practically over night after his employers accused him of computer fraud, I think there is valid reason to suspect that it's more than incompetence, and that illegal activity on his part here is likely.

Word.

ab8989

full member

Activity: 209

Merit: 101

FUTURE OF CRYPTO IS HERE!

Quote

(1) As of now, the liabilities of MtGox Co., Ltd exceed its assets and its financial situation is as follows:
Total amount of assets 3,841,866,163
Total amount of current liabilities 6,501,119,371

This statement looks horribly unprofessional. Why is there no indication of which currency is used? I assume those are yen, but I should not have to guess whether they are yen or not!!!

If we convert the numbers to USD by approximately dividing by 100 we get that the assets are 38MUSD and liabilities 65MUSD.

The numbers from crisis memo were fiat assets 32MUSD and liabilities 55MUSD. We are in the same ballpark so that gives some indication that assumption the statement was in yen might have been correct.

However I took the numbers from the crisis draft without BTC. That indicates the effect of the lost 750kBTC is not included at all! Using USD500/BTC gives an additional liability of 375MUSD or 37,500,000,000 yen which is not included in the statement today!!!

I am out of ideas for any alternative explanation how these numbers could make any sense at all in some other way.

BitOnyx

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Cryptocurrencies Exchange

Interesting is this might be one of first cases where bitcoins would be seriously taken as assets. I don't like some of changes force in all of this statements but i bet they get good enough lawyers for that. Ironically there wouldn't be so many problems if maybe they bought themselves insurance or store data off-line. Or maybe just limit on bitcoins stored on people accounts. At some point they were not only exchange but also bank in some way.

davida

sr. member

Activity: 585

Merit: 250

So, for less than 30 million usd technically a new owner could step in and restore all mtgox balances and continue business as normal? (i say normal, obviously would have a lot of trust to regain)

Surely in the long term some smart investors would be all over that???

donking

jr. member

Activity: 38

Merit: 2

I can not see any way justice being served and Mark Gox coming out of this ordeal with any coins to his name.

Zeeks

full member

Activity: 180

Merit: 100

Anyone who even starts to believe any of that for even a moment ought to drop by service discussion or r/bitcoin and see how people are uncovering hundreds of thousands of bitcoins still sitting untouched in MtGOX wallets. As if somehow no one would notice.

Loozik

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Born to chew bubble gum and kick ass

Quote from: loewen.brad on March 03, 2014, 07:02:00 AM

I'm still gonna have to go with the incompetence argument.

The incompetence argument (nice, naive fatty guy, probably incompetent) was created with fabricated ''leaks'', released on the right moments directed to the right people (the clueless ones):
- IRC chat discussions
- recovery plan
- business plan
- etc

The incompetence argument was so frequently used that it got imprinted in our brains. The incompetence served only as distraction for us so that we would never see that the grand theft of $ 0.5 billion was happening.

BitcoinObmen

newbie

Activity: 35

Merit: 0

Quote from: turvarya on March 03, 2014, 02:48:14 AM

There are just 2 realististic possibilities:

1. Mark Karpeles stole it
2. Somebody else from MtGox stole it.

The whole "there was a hacker, who used a bug to steal the Money"-Argument is just stupid.

+1

loewen.brad

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

I'm still gonna have to go with the incompetence argument. After all... Mt. Gox WAS originally created as a website for people to trade Magic: The Gathering cards with each other. Not EXACTLY something that takes a masters degree in business and economics to run properly, which is precisely what someone who heads a multi-million dollar financial institution should have.

Topic: MTGOX Statement *NEW MAR 3RD* - page 3. (Read 9163 times)

Topic: MTGOX Statement NEW MAR 3RD - page 3. (Read 9163 times)