Topic: Multipool - the pool mining pool (with source code) - page 14. (Read 48269 times)

TeaRex is exactly correct in the explanation. The reason I didn't display utility as "expected per share" to begin with, is that each share has unique utility. The database keeps count of the number of shares submitted by each user to each pool in each round, and also of the sum of the shares' utilities in that round. When a round is rewarded, each user receives a proportion of the round's reward equal to the proportion of the user's total utility against the total utility of all users in that round. To me it is easier to think of expected utility in these terms. Couldn't someone write a greasemonkey script if there really is demand for displaying utility as per share, rather than total?

So what's the deal with eligius? Eligius-us is back up, serving stats and getworks, and accepting shares, but it is "down"? I guess I'll keep it out of rotation while it decides its existential problem.

NotaNumber (div by zero) just ruin everything! they're contagious and infect everything they contact.

The reason for my  is that I'd thought that is what "Efficiency" already represents. Eg: atm if you solo 877000 shares/blocks, or do the same at a proportional pool at "luck" multiplier = 1.0, you expect 50 coins. You can check for yourself that efficiency is calculated as (received coins/expected coins), which means it would also be (utilised shares/accepted shares). But efficiency!=utility/shares - again, you can check this with a few of your own.

I prolly have this the wrong way around, and it'd be handy for stats purposes if it relates to eg. the total shares in that block. Then (I hope to) relate results to Raulo's original paper on hopping and not just calculate hopping efficiency but predict best hopping algos for each pool.

As I see it, utility is related to what the multipool algorithm expects the shares to be worth ahead of time, while efficiency is related to what their real worth turns out to be after the fact, once multipool knows how many coins it will actually collect for them. Confusingly the two are not expressed in the same way, one is expected total worth, while the other is real worth per share (both in relation to the average worth of one share at the current difficulty).

That's what I suggested should be changed, so that you'd have "expected worth per share" and "real worth per share" instead, allowing for a direct comparison. If the algorithm is correct, these numbers should more or less converge over time.

Is Multipool the "crazy miner on eligius US" who has 68% of the hashrate?

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.msg264031#msg264031

(eligius US has been down for the last week, everyone is on eligius EU)

What is this 2% fee of which you speak?

same
also, my efficiency is down to 0.997, while paying 2% fee to the pool and a fee to the pools it mines :/

I've been getting a LOT of connection errors and invalids using this pool lately. Switching both my miners back to bitcoin.lc - will revisit once these issues are fixed.

overall review on 10,000 shares and around .60 btc earned.. I think i started off really well on efficiency and all the solo mining mixed in with score based mining kinda brought that eff down

As I see it, utility is related to what the multipool algorithm expects the shares to be worth ahead of time, while efficiency is related to what their real worth turns out to be after the fact, once multipool knows how many coins it will actually collect for them. Confusingly the two are not expressed in the same way, one is expected total worth, while the other is real worth per share (both in relation to the average worth of one share at the current difficulty).

That's what I suggested should be changed, so that you'd have "expected worth per share" and "real worth per share" instead, allowing for a direct comparison. If the algorithm is correct, these numbers should more or less converge over time.

Well thx for trying to explain - but 

The reason for my  is that I'd thought that is what "Efficiency" already represents. Eg: atm if you solo 877000 shares/blocks, or do the same at a proportional pool at "luck" multiplier = 1.0, you expect 50 coins. You can check for yourself that efficiency is calculated as (received coins/expected coins), which means it would also be (utilised shares/accepted shares). But efficiency!=utility/shares - again, you can check this with a few of your own.

I prolly have this the wrong way around, and it'd be handy for stats purposes if it relates to eg. the total shares in that block. Then (I hope to) relate results to Raulo's original paper on hopping and not just calculate hopping efficiency but predict best hopping algos for each pool.

Cheers for the help!

Sorry techwtf, I still don't get why you'd leave for losing some shares to btcmine - you get decaying shares at eligius-eu which zero out some rounds. But the overall efficiency for eligius-eu is ok, as is the overall efficiency for the pool.

Can you post your shares (without pending, the top number) and your earned (not collected) for all pools?  Efficiency of 1.086 is not just nice, but means you get 1.086 coins for every coin you'd earn elsewhere (averaged over quite often a loooong period of time).

Yeah... like the big red flashing "9.999999 99" that my dad's old TI-59 programmable calculator produced on divide by zero back in the seventies; they also propagated that value and then you'd have to tediously single-step to find the culprit, instead of the code just halting with an error immediately. Nice idea in principle but it can cause no end of headaches.


As far as I understand it, utility is "the number of shares your submitted shares (including pending shares) are assumed to be worth by multipool's underlying algorithm", compared to solo mining or a hypothetical proportional pool without fees, and average luck. So basically if you'd have submitted that many shares to a proportional pool at random times, and the pool had been neither lucky nor unlucky, you'd get the same amount of money as Multipool expects you to receive for the shares you actually submitted there. I hope I haven't confused you any further now...

NotaNumber (div by zero) just ruin everything! they're contagious and infect everything they contact.

Can anyone explain what utility is? Efficiency is how many expected shares worth of coin your actual shares get you, but I can't figure out how to relate utility to shares.  And I don't understand what TeaRex means here (no offence mate) since I don't know how you could get an "expected efficiency".

We cannot drop btcmine for having lower efficiency than other pools. Being a score-based pool, it provides an important role - a baseline expected utility of about 90%. All the times you are mining in btcmine at 90% utility, all the other pools have utilities much lower than that - you would lose more by removing btcmine from rotation. Btcmine also has a very good response rate, so it often fills in extra getworks when a higher-utility pool cannot keep up. Notice that for most rounds in btcmine, the expected utility actually is just about or slightly higher than 100%. Unless you can show with statistical significance that the actual btcmine rewards, and therefore efficiency, are lower than the predicted utility, it has to stay.

An even better alternative would be a constant-utility pool like Continuum, but I am afraid whether doubling its hashrate is such a good idea. Continuum is a good fallback for solo hoppers, but we, as a pool of comparable size, would not gain much decrease in block finding variance by joining up. We would be better off generating our own getworks, which, by definition, have expected utility of 100%... Perhaps I'll increase the priority of generated getworks over pools with utilities below 100% (right now solo getworks only get used as a fallback to keep the work queue running).

There seems to be a little math problem in your Webserver script at the moment.

My total utility is currently "nan" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaN) probably thanks to the fact that Utility at eligius-eu is "nan", which in turn is caused by utility for the 325 shares I submitted there (through multipool of course) for block #132521 being "nan" for whatever reason.

And let me offer a little suggestion: It would be nice if instead of "utility" you'd have "expected efficiency" (i.e. utility divided by number of submitted shares) listed on the site. That way one could compare it directly with the achieved efficiency without having to do all the divisions by hand (or rather in the Windows calculator...).

Also, is there any particular reason that bitcoinpool is listed twice?

I'm mining on Multipool under the address 1Jp9L4vkdkpFBmUWrBQcwj5rFSrmpzc19F if you need that info to check the problems yourself.

Thanks again for offering this service!