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Topic: My Asrock H110 Pro BTC+ caught fire - page 2. (Read 964 times)

newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
March 16, 2018, 01:03:55 AM
#27

If you are running dual PSUs then PSU(1) that powers the motherboard should also power all the risers. The other PSU(2) should only power GPU 6pin/8pin. This configuration ensures both PSUs are properly grounded.


You must connect the SAME psu that powers the riser to the same GPU 6/8 pin 12V connector. The purpose of the power to the riser is to give a current boost to the PCIE 12V bus feeding the GPU (up to 54 watts), not to feed power back to the MB.  If you have been doing it the way you described, only luck has been on your side. I know others do it this way as well, but this is actually wrong and is one of the reasons people have stated they can only run 2 risers on the same molex cable bus before it gets hot. It's overheating because the voltage potential between the molex 12v bus on one PSU and the 6/8pin 12V on another PSU is out of phase and causing a balancing current draw. But the part you said about not using the molex on the MB is correct.

Likely the reason why the OP burned up his MB is because he used the molex connector on the MB in the first place. You can't do this while using more than one PSU with the risers or GPUs. The reason is because of voltage phases with switching power supplies. He also may be on to something with one of the GPU PSU's being off and the MB trying to power the GPU alone, but this is a design flaw with all these Molex motherboards. There was never a provision for additional power to be supplied the way they are doing now. In normal circumstances, without the molex power being there, his MB would have simply shut down from an overload and prevented this hazard. but because that molex connector is running 12V on it's own bus, bypassing other circuits and thermal overload protections, it just ran away with the current. His PSU should have also prevented this from happening but the molex bus is allowed to do it's own thing and doesn't have the overload protections that the 24-pin bus has in place.

I'm an electrical engineer, and I have yet to understand how the MB manufacturers have got this so wrong. You can NOT use one PSU to power the risers and another to power the 6/8 pin GPU connectors with switching power supplies. This will create a potential delta of 12 along the same bus if and when one PSU is out of phase with the other on the same circuit. I don't think most people understand how a switching PSU works. It's basically a square wave cleaned up, but under heavy load it still shows itself as a square wave. For argument's sake, think of one PSU at a +12V peak for 60 cycles (an example, but it could be higher) and another at anything less than 12V or even zero, for 60 cycles on the same circuit. Whatever the difference is, the phase will create a voltage potential that shorts the circuit or the power bus in this case.

Do NOT use the molex connectors on the ASRock or Gigabyte mining boards. It is not necessary and is actually dangerous when using more than one PSU. It's a design flaw to even offer them. You would only ever need to use the molex connector if you had one single insane PSU run all the GPU cards and didn't use powered risers.  I have been running both the ASRock and Gigabyte mining boards with 12 cards and have never used the molex connector on the MB.


I have read a popular post before from an "electrical engineer" making the same claims as you. The flaw is that most risers still draw power from the MB, if they didn't then you would be correct. Have you ever tested this out? If OP had the PSU powering the MB connected to all the risers, and the MB molex coming from the same PSU that powered the MB 24pin/12v.  then he never would have ran into a issue.  

I don't think MB manufacturers have got this wrong, I think you've got it wrong. Some boards will not post with more than 3-4x GPUs without a molex plugged in.  It's only a problem if the molex you are using is coming from the PSU that's not plugged into the motherboards 24pin/12v connector.  
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
March 16, 2018, 12:59:11 AM
#26
In a multiple PSU setup the reason you want to connect the risers to the the same PSU as the motherboard is because all devices connected to the motherboard MUST share the same power source and ground so the voltage can be regulated according to a single source.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18351224

The problem with powering more than two risers per molex strand is 18 AWG wire is only rated for 10 A max for single core wire, which is 120 W at 12 V and much less for multi stand wire. Using more than two risers per PSU cable strand WILL exceed the rating of 18 AWG wire, causing the wire to heat up and is dangerous.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

Well, I disagree with this. It is more important to run the same PSU powering the riser and the GPU than it is to worry about MB to riser ground. The PSU, Riser, and GPU ground need to be tied together but the MB does not need to be on the same loop when using a powered riser. The reason is because the MB power is not powering the riser or GPU at this point. The USB cable is transferring data, not delivering 12v power, therefore common ground is less consequential.

On a side note, I have run 4 risers (Titan XPs) on one 18 gauge Molex and the current draw was not even 10A as long as the same PSU powered the GPU 6/8 pin.  I'm not saying it's best practice, but as soon as I separate the PSU that powers the riser from the one that powers the GPU, the current draw goes up and the Molex bus gets hot. This indicates a voltage potential difference on that bus, creating a greater power draw on that Molex bus. If the riser power is on the same bus, most of the power will be supplied via the 6/8 pin connector. While PCIE standards allow up to 75W via 12v and 3.3v combined power, most cards are designed to only draw up to 35 watts via 12V and the rest comes from the 6/8 pin bus.
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
March 16, 2018, 12:27:31 AM
#25
That's why people advise us to build 1PSU rigs if it is possible.

2-PSU rigs can do alright as long as you dial them right. Like OP, sometimes you don't.
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 606
March 16, 2018, 12:23:01 AM
#24
In a multiple PSU setup the reason you want to connect the risers to the the same PSU as the motherboard is because all devices connected to the motherboard MUST share the same power source and ground so the voltage can be regulated according to a single source.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18351224

The problem with powering more than two risers per molex strand is 18 AWG wire is only rated for 10 A max for single core wire, which is 120 W at 12 V and much less for multi stand wire. Using more than two risers per PSU cable strand WILL exceed the rating of 18 AWG wire, causing the wire to heat up and is dangerous.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
March 15, 2018, 11:15:21 PM
#23

If you are running dual PSUs then PSU(1) that powers the motherboard should also power all the risers. The other PSU(2) should only power GPU 6pin/8pin. This configuration ensures both PSUs are properly grounded.


You must connect the SAME psu that powers the riser to the same GPU 6/8 pin 12V connector. The purpose of the power to the riser is to give a current boost to the PCIE 12V bus feeding the GPU (up to 54 watts), not to feed power back to the MB.  If you have been doing it the way you described, only luck has been on your side. I know others do it this way as well, but this is actually wrong and is one of the reasons people have stated they can only run 2 risers on the same molex cable bus before it gets hot. It's overheating because the voltage potential between the molex 12v bus on one PSU and the 6/8pin 12V on another PSU is out of phase and causing a balancing current draw. But the part you said about not using the molex on the MB is correct.

Likely the reason why the OP burned up his MB is because he used the molex connector on the MB in the first place. You can't do this while using more than one PSU with the risers or GPUs. The reason is because of voltage phases with switching power supplies. He also may be on to something with one of the GPU PSU's being off and the MB trying to power the GPU alone, but this is a design flaw with all these Molex motherboards. There was never a provision for additional power to be supplied the way they are doing now. In normal circumstances, without the molex power being there, his MB would have simply shut down from an overload and prevented this hazard. but because that molex connector is running 12V on it's own bus, bypassing other circuits and thermal overload protections, it just ran away with the current. His PSU should have also prevented this from happening but the molex bus is allowed to do it's own thing and doesn't have the overload protections that the 24-pin bus has in place.

I'm an electrical engineer, and I have yet to understand how the MB manufacturers have got this so wrong. You can NOT use one PSU to power the risers and another to power the 6/8 pin GPU connectors with switching power supplies. This will create a potential delta of 12 along the same bus if and when one PSU is out of phase with the other on the same circuit. I don't think most people understand how a switching PSU works. It's basically a square wave cleaned up, but under heavy load it still shows itself as a square wave. For argument's sake, think of one PSU at a +12V peak for 60 cycles (an example, but it could be higher) and another at anything less than 12V or even zero, for 60 cycles on the same circuit. Whatever the difference is, the phase will create a voltage potential that shorts the circuit or the power bus in this case.

Do NOT use the molex connectors on the ASRock or Gigabyte mining boards. It is not necessary and is actually dangerous when using more than one PSU. It's a design flaw to even offer them. You would only ever need to use the molex connector if you had one single insane PSU run all the GPU cards and didn't use powered risers.  I have been running both the ASRock and Gigabyte mining boards with 12 cards and have never used the molex connector on the MB.
full member
Activity: 394
Merit: 101
March 15, 2018, 10:32:07 PM
#22
There is no telling what is going to happen to which.
- I had one 1200w thermaltake burned when using pcie cables only no sata and still power cable burnt. It caused all GPU-s fans to max and I was scratching my head wtf has happened till i noticed the burn mark.

- another msi z270 sata connector got extremely hot and started smoking.



newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
March 15, 2018, 09:22:55 PM
#21
For maximum safety, when you have multiple PSU for 1 rig, you have to connect all motherboard connectors, HDD, some GC and ALL risers on first PSU.
Secondary PSU should only be use to power graphic cards. If you split risers between PSU, you still have a risk...

No. A GPU and it’s riser should be on the same PSU.

No, sorry, everything related to motherboard must share the same ground. By plugging risers on different PSU you have a chance to join 2 different ground and make your motherboard break down. In worst case it can start fire. Plugging only graphic cards on a second PSU won't make any problem.
I won't take the risk to see my house burn just for bad plug on a rig...

I agree. The PCI-E specification also clearly states the x16 PCI-E slot can be powered by a different PSU rail than the VGA 6/8-Pin aux power on the card. That's how I setup my triple and dual PSU rigs. The same PSU that powers the motherboard also powers all the risers. The other PSU's are only for the VGA power connectors on the cards. If there is more than one 6/8-PIN power connector on the card, you MUST make sure they are powered by the same PSU rail.


https://image.ibb.co/fVt8hx/PCI_E_Specification.png





All I have read on these forums is power riser+GPU should be on same PSU.


If you are running dual PSUs then PSU(1) that powers the motherboard should also power all the risers. The other PSU(2) should only power GPU 6pin/8pin. This configuration ensures both PSUs are properly grounded.

If you connect an additional power connector eg Molex, from PSU(2) directly to any part of the motherboard then expect things to end badly.



hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 606
March 15, 2018, 09:12:56 PM
#20
The PCI-E specification says the power to the x16 PCI-E slot can come from the same or a different rail in the power supply. Implying the power from the x16 slot is NOT shared with the power to the VGA supplemental 6/8-Pin power connectors, which is also why you can use a different PSU that's connected to the motherboard to power the risers, so they share the same ground as the motherboard. The power on the 6/8-Pin connectors on the card IS shared, which is why they MUST come from the same rail on the PSU. These posts also explain why you should power the risers with the same PSU that powers the motherboard.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19383499
member
Activity: 531
Merit: 29
March 15, 2018, 09:06:16 PM
#19
For maximum safety, when you have multiple PSU for 1 rig, you have to connect all motherboard connectors, HDD, some GC and ALL risers on first PSU.
Secondary PSU should only be use to power graphic cards. If you split risers between PSU, you still have a risk...

No. A GPU and it’s riser should be on the same PSU.

No, sorry, everything related to motherboard must share the same ground. By plugging risers on different PSU you have a chance to join 2 different ground and make your motherboard break down. In worst case it can start fire. Plugging only graphic cards on a second PSU won't make any problem.
I won't take the risk to see my house burn just for bad plug on a rig...

I agree. The PCI-E specification also clearly states the x16 PCI-E slot can be powered by a different PSU rail than the VGA 6/8-Pin aux power on the card. That's how I setup my triple and dual PSU rigs. The same PSU that powers the motherboard also powers all the risers. The other PSU's are only for the VGA power connectors on the cards. If there is more than one 6/8-PIN power connector on the card, you MUST make sure they are powered by the same PSU rail.







No. It says additional power supply connector, not additional power supply.

All I have read on these forums is power riser+GPU should be on same PSU.
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 606
March 15, 2018, 08:17:19 PM
#18
The motherboard shares 3.3V and a ground with the riser, which is why you should power the riser with the same PSU that powers the rest of the motherboard. If you measure the outer pins of the riser USB connector coming from the motherboard PCI-E slot connector with a multimeter while the motherboard is on you will see there is 3.3V coming from the motherboard PCI-E slot through the USB cable to the riser.

member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
March 15, 2018, 08:10:36 PM
#17
What? No.

USB PCIe risers DO NOT pass power down the riser to the motherboard.

why tf would you power the riser and GPU 12v power from separate PSU's?

It might work fine if the GPU can handle it, but you can clearly have the riser's powered from a different psu.
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 606
March 15, 2018, 07:55:07 PM
#16
For maximum safety, when you have multiple PSU for 1 rig, you have to connect all motherboard connectors, HDD, some GC and ALL risers on first PSU.
Secondary PSU should only be use to power graphic cards. If you split risers between PSU, you still have a risk...

No. A GPU and it’s riser should be on the same PSU.

No, sorry, everything related to motherboard must share the same ground. By plugging risers on different PSU you have a chance to join 2 different ground and make your motherboard break down. In worst case it can start fire. Plugging only graphic cards on a second PSU won't make any problem.
I won't take the risk to see my house burn just for bad plug on a rig...

I agree. The PCI-E specification also clearly states the x16 PCI-E slot can be powered by a different PSU rail than the VGA 6/8-Pin aux power on the card. That's how I setup my triple and dual PSU rigs. The same PSU that powers the motherboard also powers all the risers. The other PSU's are only for the VGA power connectors on the cards. If there is more than one 6/8-PIN power connector on the card, you MUST make sure they are powered by the same PSU rail.





newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
March 15, 2018, 07:46:22 PM
#15
Hi guys,

Today it seems I fried my Asrock H110 Pro BTC+ mobo... Damage on the 12 connected GPUs I still have to assess Sad

The connector of one of the 3 power supply cables to the mobo caught fire. Luckily I had the reflex to pull the power cord from the socket the moment I saw the flames... You can see the damage in this picture. The connector and part of the power cable have melted and the mobo is scorched.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/44e5scw4gkqxfwv/Foto%2015-03-18%2019%2022%2020.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/44e5scw4gkqxfwv/Foto%2015-03-18%2019%2022%2020.jpg

Before replacing the mobo, I want to know what went wrong. I don't want to die in a fire because my rig acts up at night.

The wiring scheme:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vv8s1lhvuuvcojh/rig%20sata-molex.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vv8s1lhvuuvcojh/rig%20sata-molex.png
The red line indicates the wire that caught fire.

What happened:
- I shut down my rig using remote desktop
- After a minute, I went to check if it was really shut down in the other room. I wasn't, it was on fire.

What I think happened: the mobo shut down PSU1, together with the connected GPUs to that PSU. However, somehow PSU2 failed to shut down, still powering the GPUs.
The GPUs tried to draw power from the mobo, which was only supplied by the one power line from PSU2 which got overloaded and caught fire.

Any thoughts on this?

Did you connected a molex plug from a 2nd power supply directly into your MB?
full member
Activity: 434
Merit: 107
March 15, 2018, 07:23:59 PM
#14
Helps if you read the manual (which is actually very well written). Im surprised how many ppl dont.
On Page 23:


http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Manual/H110%20Pro%20BTC+.pdf
newbie
Activity: 92
Merit: 0
March 15, 2018, 06:25:02 PM
#13
For maximum safety, when you have multiple PSU for 1 rig, you have to connect all motherboard connectors, HDD, some GC and ALL risers on first PSU.
Secondary PSU should only be use to power graphic cards. If you split risers between PSU, you still have a risk...

No. A GPU and it’s riser should be on the same PSU.

No, sorry, everything related to motherboard must share the same ground. By plugging risers on different PSU you have a chance to join 2 different ground and make your motherboard break down. In worst case it can start fire. Plugging only graphic cards on a second PSU won't make any problem.
I won't take the risk to see my house burn just for bad plug on a rig...
jr. member
Activity: 74
Merit: 1
March 15, 2018, 06:04:38 PM
#12
I would like to suggest one other possibility if you have a very manual procedure, use MSI AB and you are a tired solo operator.

It's possible on a fresh system reboot, if you use MSI AB to set the TDP and accidentally omit running MSI AB, when you run whatever mining software you are using, you are running your GPU's flat out.
Thank you for your comment.
I've had this in the past: forgot to lower tdp with ab. Luckily my PSUs detect overloading, and it shut off power.

In this case however, the system was shut down or in the process of shutting down, putting an enormous load on that one power cable to the mobo.
member
Activity: 357
Merit: 26
March 15, 2018, 06:00:35 PM
#11
For maximum safety, when you have multiple PSU for 1 rig, you have to connect all motherboard connectors, HDD, some GC and ALL risers on first PSU.
Secondary PSU should only be use to power graphic cards. If you split risers between PSU, you still have a risk...

No. A GPU and it’s riser should be on the same PSU.

Yes, agreed. Think about it. Also decent psus won't let you do this (tried years ago with an EVGA, wouldn't boot).
hero member
Activity: 578
Merit: 508
March 15, 2018, 05:55:55 PM
#10
I would like to suggest one other possibility if you have a very manual procedure, use MSI AB and you are a tired solo operator.

It's possible on a fresh system reboot, if you use MSI AB to set the TDP and accidentally omit running MSI AB.  When you run whatever mining software you are using, you are running your GPU's flat out.
member
Activity: 308
Merit: 10
March 15, 2018, 03:47:55 PM
#9
we had the same error with our miners

the riser should sized perfectly for sata power source of the power supply-

 we had max 2 riser at one cable

the cable get really hot , our miners are all in air condition

thanks


Hi guys,

Today it seems I fried my Asrock H110 Pro BTC+ mobo... Damage on the 12 connected GPUs I still have to assess Sad

The connector of one of the 3 power supply cables to the mobo caught fire. Luckily I had the reflex to pull the power cord from the socket the moment I saw the flames... You can see the damage in this picture. The connector and part of the power cable have melted and the mobo is scorched.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/44e5scw4gkqxfwv/Foto%2015-03-18%2019%2022%2020.jpg

Before replacing the mobo, I want to know what went wrong. I don't want to die in a fire because my rig acts up at night.

The wiring scheme:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vv8s1lhvuuvcojh/rig%20sata-molex.png
The red line indicates the wire that caught fire.

What happened:
- I shut down my rig using remote desktop
- After a minute, I went to check if it was really shut down in the other room. I wasn't, it was on fire.

What I think happened: the mobo shut down PSU1, together with the connected GPUs to that PSU. However, somehow PSU2 failed to shut down, still powering the GPUs.
The GPUs tried to draw power from the mobo, which was only supplied by the one power line from PSU2 which got overloaded and caught fire.

Any thoughts on this?
jr. member
Activity: 74
Merit: 1
March 15, 2018, 03:45:55 PM
#8
This power indicated as "Extra power 3" must also be from PSU1.
Otherwise the connection is ok, I have this as well.
I think so too, but I have to be sure. I don't want to risk this anymore, it's scared me to see my equipment burn up and potentially burn down my house :s

Similar thing happened to me, but luckily I have seen the damage on my PSU cabal before it has started the fire. What went wrong for me was that, I put too many GPU's on one PSU. Because of that, there was too much stress on PSU's wires, which lead to damaging of wires. Maybe you have same problem. Maybe your PSU is not strong enough to support those 12 GPU's that you have.
I'm using 2x Corsair RM1000x PSUs of 1000W a piece. 6 GPUs are on PSU1, 6 on PSU2 Smiley
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