My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost. - page 29.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: tinus42 on October 22, 2013, 07:31:43 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on October 22, 2013, 07:21:48 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 22, 2013, 04:38:38 PM

Quote from: Lohoris on October 22, 2013, 09:46:12 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

I think most people want the EU.

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

Union itself is a very good thing.
Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

a super-state is not needed to be free, quite the opposite.
idiots

Precisely, I don't want a government, be it national or continental ...

You want to stand on your porch with a shotgun, protecting your property from ruffians?

Nope. I don't want a government. I didn't say I hate collaboration. I hate things and people which involuntarily limit my freedoms.

Governments are the most inefficient entities that have ever existed (EU is one of the "best). I couldn't construct something more wasteful if I tried.

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Quote from: wachtwoord on October 22, 2013, 07:21:48 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 22, 2013, 04:38:38 PM

Quote from: Lohoris on October 22, 2013, 09:46:12 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

I think most people want the EU.

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

Union itself is a very good thing.
Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

a super-state is not needed to be free, quite the opposite.
idiots

Precisely, I don't want a government, be it national or continental ...

You want to stand on your porch with a shotgun, protecting your property from ruffians?

hayek

sr. member

Activity: 370

Merit: 250

This is terrifying

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on October 22, 2013, 04:38:38 PM

Quote from: Lohoris on October 22, 2013, 09:46:12 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

I think most people want the EU.

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

Union itself is a very good thing.
Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

a super-state is not needed to be free, quite the opposite.
idiots

Precisely, I don't want a government, be it national or continental ...

cr1776

legendary

Activity: 4130

Merit: 1307

Quote from: tinus42 on October 22, 2013, 04:34:53 PM

The EU lacks democracy and is governed by bureaucrats. There's not so much a difference with the Soviet Union.

Without hard limits, democracy becomes the tyranny of the majority. >50% of the voters can vote to use the force of government to seize 700k from your bank account to pay for anything they want. They can't come and take your money at knife-point, but they can vote people into office who can do so.

:-)

conspirosphere.tk

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Activity: 2352

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

Quote from: Lohoris on October 22, 2013, 09:46:12 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

I think most people want the EU.

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

Union itself is a very good thing.
Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

a super-state is not needed to be free, quite the opposite.
idiots

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Quote from: Lohoris on October 22, 2013, 09:46:12 AM

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

I think most people want the EU.

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

Union itself is a very good thing.
Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

The EU lacks democracy and is governed by bureaucrats. There's not so much a difference with the Soviet Union.

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

I think most people want the EU.

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

Union itself is a very good thing.
Problem here is that it is being controlled by evil people, but don't blame the Union, blame the people!

cr1776

legendary

Activity: 4130

Merit: 1307

Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

...
No borders is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.
...

A problem is that Cyprus and the EU ended up imposing a border on its people in the form of capital controls. An area with no frontiers suddenly had them and had two different kinds of Euro - the Cyrpus kind and the non Cyprus kind. Those kinds of stressors can't be maintained for long without issues.

justusranvier

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Quote from: RationalSpeculator on October 21, 2013, 09:26:44 PM

I think most people want EU.

No borders is beneficial for all involved.

By describing that way it sounds like the people are less interested in the presence of the EU as much as they are interested in the absence of the national governments.

RationalSpeculator

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!

Quote from: trilightzone.org on October 21, 2013, 08:55:56 PM

One of the reasons, imo, is that if a country leaves the EU and they suddenly start to do better again despite the first few years others will follow. Not because of pro-EU politicians but because people will finally wake up and vote for anyone else who can get them out of the EU. Also interesting to see how the people in the UK will vote, if allowed, before 2017 about staying or leaving the EU.

I think most people want the EU.

No borders anymore is beneficial for all involved. Brings peace and prosperity.

Interesting video that explains how European Union works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O37yJBFRrfg

trilightzone.org

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One of the reasons, imo, is that if a country leaves the EU and they suddenly start to do better again despite the first few years others will follow. Not because of pro-EU politicians but because people will finally wake up and vote for anyone else who can get them out of the EU. Also interesting to see how the people in the UK will vote, if allowed, before 2017 about staying or leaving the EU.

cr1776

legendary

Activity: 4130

Merit: 1307

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on October 21, 2013, 03:41:20 PM

...
dont trust them get your money out!

Exactly. I believe that the people who are paying attention realize that for 100s (1000s?) of years the authoritarian rulers will take the fruits of your life (or the fruits of your labor) one way or another. By inflating the value of the currency, shaving the silver/gold/bronze/copper coins, theft and the like.

There have been few, if any, ways of protecting yourself from the thieves who claim to be out "for the common good" but are really out for themselves and their own power, until now. Bitcoin and a brain wallet are extremely good for protecting yourself from the freedom-hating power-hungry monsters who have ruled for too long and have consistently tried to kill or destroy those who wanted to be free and who had set up governments with that in mind.

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

Quote from: zeroday on October 21, 2013, 02:57:09 PM

I think Cyprus government is less guilty as they had no choice. I remember how Cypriot parliament refused the first "Plan A" offered by EU. That plan was about imposing immediate 10% tax for every bank account in the country without exemption. But then EU send an ultimatum leaving Cyprus no choice rather than pillage Laiki's accounts or go default and economically die.

EU helped Greece but then rejected doing so for Cyprus because they had evil plans expropriating Russian oligarch's billions held in Cyprus. But in reality, all the oligarchs successfully withdrew their billions just a day before banks were shut down. Hence, mid-size businesses and just wealthy citizens with capitals below 1M EUR became the most affected parties.

their first plan was also, to take 6,5 % of all accounts, also that under 100k...

dont trust them get your money out!

RationalSpeculator

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!

Quote from: zeroday on October 21, 2013, 02:57:09 PM

I think Cyprus government is less guilty as they had no choice. I remember how Cypriot parliament refused the first "Plan A" offered by EU. That plan was about imposing immediate 10% tax for every bank account in the country without exemption. But then EU send an ultimatum leaving Cyprus no choice rather than pillage Laiki's accounts or go default and economically die.

EU helped Greece but then rejected doing so for Cyprus because they had evil plans expropriating Russian oligarch's billions held in Cyprus. But in reality, all the oligarchs successfully withdrew their billions just a day before banks were shut down. Hence, mid-size businesses and just wealthy citizens with capitals below 1M EUR became the most affected parties.

I think you didn't address my counterargument but just repeated yours.

zeroday

donator

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Merit: 1000

I think Cyprus government is less guilty as they had no choice. I remember how Cypriot parliament refused the first "Plan A" offered by EU. That plan was about imposing immediate 10% tax for every bank account in the country without exemption. But then EU send an ultimatum leaving Cyprus no choice rather than pillage Laiki's accounts or go default and economically die.

EU helped Greece but then rejected doing so for Cyprus because they had evil plans expropriating Russian oligarch's billions held in Cyprus. But in reality, all the oligarchs successfully withdrew their billions just a day before banks were shut down. Hence, mid-size businesses and just wealthy citizens with capitals below 1M EUR became the most affected parties.

RationalSpeculator

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

This bull will try to shake you off. Hold tight!

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 03:16:02 PM

Why to blame EU? They created a blueprint of Laiki's "restructuring" plan and then forced Cyprus government to follow it under the threat of default and leaving eurozone.

But European institutions cannot default Cyprus nor can it force Cyprus out of the Eurozone.

The only thing the European institutions can do is not give money to Cyprus government. As a consequence Cyprus may default or decide to leave Eurozone so they can print their own money again but that is their choice.

The blueprint of Laiki, ie the theft, was proposed by the EU but it was Cyprus government that did it.

It's the same as me saying to you when your company is in trouble: "If you don't rob your employees, I won't give you another loan or bailout." You decide to rob them and then your employees say that I am guilty and CEO had no choice. Seems unfair judgement to me. Sure I proposed to rob the employees and am also guilty, but CEO was the actual executor of the robbery, and thanks to my new loan/bailout the employees still have a job.

Seems you are holding the cyprus government a hand above their head.

What am I missing?

tkbx

sr. member

Activity: 350

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The good news is that if you ~~have~~ had700k, you must have at least a bitcoin or two.

cr1776

legendary

Activity: 4130

Merit: 1307

I think there is a lot of blame to go around here from the EU to the banks to the government of Cyprus to the governments of many the P.I.G.S. The thing is that if you blame the government, then you should also be blaming the people who elected the government on the premise of the "something for nothing" mentality. As I think history has shown as long as you leave power in the hands of the authoritarian, power-hungry people, the little guy (and many big guys) will end up getting screwed eventually. And obviously unless you have strong limits on the powers of government (and often even when you do have those limits they will be ignored) you only need to convince a slight majority of the voters of the idea that they are going to get something for "free" if they elect person X, and then eventually all will be lost.

The "I want to live at the expense of someone else" mentality is rampant the world over and only leads to tears, blood, and death if left to run its course.

:-)

Quote from: Dusty on October 21, 2013, 01:51:27 AM

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 03:16:02 PM

Why to blame EU? They created a blueprint of Laiki's "restructuring" plan and then forced Cyprus government to follow it under the threat of default and leaving eurozone.

But it was the government that in the first place decided to take part to the EU. And it was always the bad choice of the politicians to come to that point due to a series of bad choices in the management of the country.

So in the end, in my opinion, the fault is all on the government: they were not forced to enter the EU, also they could have been the first nation to use a 100% gold backed currency, but the didn't.

But of course, as usual, in the end it's the people that pay government faults.

Dusty

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Libertas a calumnia

Quote from: zeroday on October 20, 2013, 03:16:02 PM

Why to blame EU? They created a blueprint of Laiki's "restructuring" plan and then forced Cyprus government to follow it under the threat of default and leaving eurozone.

But it was the government that in the first place decided to take part to the EU. And it was always the bad choice of the politicians to come to that point due to a series of bad choices in the management of the country.

So in the end, in my opinion, the fault is all on the government: they were not forced to enter the EU, also they could have been the first nation to use a 100% gold backed currency, but the didn't.

But of course, as usual, in the end it's the people that pay government faults.

Topic: My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost. - page 29. (Read 408480 times)