Topic: My Bitmaintech s-7 underpreforms at freq 600 + freq 550 , not freq 500 (Fixed!) - page 2. (Read 3496 times)

We need to be able to work with bitmain so sidehack can get some chip. I mean bitmain want to make there gear and its ok. But they could sell chip and sidehack could make other gears.
Any company that will like to work with sidehack could be nice.
They could focus on big datacenter and big client and sell to sidehack so he could keep doing gear for home miner. 

I agree with you on that, 365 days warranty is just too unrealistic right now, BitMain will not accept that no matter what, unless some pressure come directly from their competitors. However, all of their competitors: SP, KNC and BitFury have all turned to industrial mining for the rich...

If only I could in some way impact the decisions and ideals of bitmain the first thing would be to get sidehack some chips.
Bitmain is partying right now anyway. They won't remember anything by next Friday 

Hell, we should all be so fortunate to have the Chinese Holiday structure. It would give more time to play with bitmain miners.

In all seriousness I give bitmain hell because I expect more from them, but I will again say at least they are bringing us a product. No matter their faults, they have kept the decision to sell something many people can use in their homes. No other prior manufacturer has done that in a long time now. Personally I didn't count the latest Avalon or Sfards units. They were not priced for mass consumption. The S7 is a bit too much for batch one, but it is something that pushes the game forward. To me the SP20 and the S5 are the only products released to do the same.

I see a poll now to push bitmain to a year warranty. That is great and all, but unless you are actually in negotiations with bitmain regarding the warranty, asking for 365 is pie in the sky. People should put efforts towards honoring the current warranty without impossible restrictions. Bitmain are never going to change the 90 day except for big boy purchases where it is used as a sales tactic.

We are currently working to get some chip.
Bitmain/Avalon/SP/KNC/Bitfury/Sfards its really hard to get some. When we will find a good company that will like to work with us, we will be able to make more gear.
If you guys have any contact let us know 

Sloopy this has to stop.  If bitmaintech reads your posting sidehack will not get any new  chips.

 My tongue was very firmly implanted in my cheek ^

I agree with you Phil, 180 would be closer to fair. After all comparing this to a car is not fair, individual miners don't cost 10, 20, - 50+ thousand USD.
Although, I think we should see a faster jump on warranty issues under 90 days. I do not think many of us are out to screw bitmain. I simply want to get equipment which runs per spec. The smart person isn't underpowering these things because they know what problems to expect. The smart person isn't taking their $2,000 purchase and jacking up the frequency right off the bat and taking a chance it will be down. The smart person is connecting it, making sure everything is setup correctly, and mining with it.
I also think anyone with common sense would look at the overall scenarios of people and agree that bitmain is sorely hurting in the support area.

In my business we know there are some people who take advantage of us. We go above and beyond. I also know I do everything possible to make sure these are repeat customers, and I certainly make my money back on the next deal. It is not difficult. It is business.
My equipment costs hundreds of thousands so we have a scale to consider, but even then I am told almost daily we have the best support in our industry. I answer my phone 24 hours a day, 7 days per week, and our biggest clients have my direct numbers. Bitmain probably does the same at some level. We also have standard emergency lines you may call and we rotate official emergency support. If you spend 5 dollars or 500,000 you get the same support. We jump no matter what. 
This is based on one simple reason and expands from there, but people running a business should always consider the person spending 5 bucks today could be spending 500,000 at some point in the future.
We are unique in our industry. We do not have to offer this level of support to maintain our edge, but personally I could never work any other way. It is ingrained in my cells that when people need help, I help. Sure sometimes I am taken advantage of, but to me, that is the price of doing business properly.

If I ever heard an employee talking down to a customer, or, heard a customer was being ignored, even if that customer is in the wrong, that employee would go to the wood shed. I expect the same treatment from others. If I get hostile with someone, or ignore them, you better believe the culture we have created is that action would be questioned and someone would immediately step in and handle it.

I mentioned this in another of my posts yesterday, it very much is a cultural difference in the approach to doing business, but, it should not be this way.

I work with many customers in mexico, and it is their culture to do what I would call screw you over the first time around. When we submit an invoice they usually do not pay right away, and try to get out of some or all of the payment, but when we call and explain things  and go through the "Rig a more O" then they pay no problem. It is the way they handle their business with each other, and everyone else and that is why international rates are higher. Some countries do business this way.

I said all of this to say, one person's being screwed over is another's way of doing business and how they were taught. A 90 day warranty from me is always going to mean a helluva lot more than a 90 day warranty from bitmain for the exact same price of equipment. This is due to a cultural issue. It starts at the top of the business. It is how the business is structured.

Here is another comparison I think everyone will more likely agree with. Look at Sidehack and Novac and our lovely compac. Gekko Science were straight up about delivery. What they expected, and told us along the way when things did or didn't happen. Now I understand that detailed level of transparency cannot be achieved  due to some business models, but the fact that they said when things were on time, or when something was late is huge compared to bitmain. Sidehack has it right. Take a warranty claim, or even an unknown and handle it head on. Drive it. OWN IT. In the end of the Compac we are lining up to throw money at Gekko Science for another project. Look at the trust he gained from this scene. Look how fast it will grow if they choose to do so.

Having those levels of morals is what I call living right, and sleeping well at night. It is night and day compared to many US companies as well. You never want your customer to feel they are out of options and have no choice but to do what you tell them. Eventually, they will have another option you are not providing. Every day look at how many people who would jump ship to an unknown manufacturer just because of the known at this moment. A US company could clean house with chips right now. However, you pay a bit more for that level of service as well. Not to mention the quality of the work, and quality control.

Someone answer this please. Would you pay $2,150 USD for a hashing / efficiency equivalent to the S7 from GekkoScience or order it for $1,800 USD from a company in China? I'm telling you it would not take long before everyone was paying more because the quality would be worlds apart. The service would be worlds apart. In the end you would make well over the price difference because your units would be worlds apart.  The people who opt for the lower cost would only do so for a mining generation. When you look at how much different the cultural ideology is there is no contest.

From the top down makes or breaks any company. The example that is set by the ownership and management team. Taking care of your customers is number 1 in any business, but even more critical in repeat business. Am I thankful Bitmain continues to sell to the public at all, yes, yes I am, but that doesn't remove my expectations to receive what I purchased. I think the expectations of a 90 day warranty here in the US means something completely different than it does in many other parts of the world where they expect to roll the dice. We expect what we were told we would receive.

It is a hard pill to swallow for some of us. Me included. But I do not see any other plausible explanation when considering my personal experiences in this community and my work life. It all points to the same core values. You either have them, or you don't.

180 is fair.

 365 is too long.

 90 is   too short.

While you may not agree with 180 it is 2x  90.  It also allow you 5 months of mining and then sell it while under warranty.   

another thing, I do not agree on the guarantee, 90 days are very short, the guarantee must be at least 365 days.

Well that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation.  Yes there are problems, and people make more noise when things go wrong. However I think for a piece of equipment running 24/7 dissipating 1200W with chip case temperatures of 50 Deg and often I suspect an ambient temperature greater than the Manufacturers spec, overall reliability is quite good. 

Rich

guys try to be objective in things, we all know that Chinese products are of poor quality, then we should not be surprised of the problems we encounter when we buy in China, you do not just mean the world of the miners, but all over. no offense to the Chinese.

I think they are the chips that are inherently poor quality, a new miner just came out, already it has many problems of hardware errors.

yeah  I think this could be the issue.

I know I can create it with hard power off and then back on.  I know that if this gets done the errors jump to .1100   the gh drops 5-10%

and it does not correct itself even if given 10 -16 hours.

I know the soft boot fixes it.  But that is my gear.  Others have slightly different problems.

Phil, you know how Bitmain warns that you need to turn on the hashing boards first and the controller last? None of us really want to deal with that, so I think this warning goes largely ignored.

Seems like a soft reboot would effectively be the same as turning the controller on last. All the hashing boards will be well powered on, then the reboot insures that the controller initializes much later.

Perhaps some rigs are more prone to the problem than others. Maybe some hash boards come up too slow or some controllers start up too fast and that results in an inter-component communication problem.

I have same problem. I cant get more 4550-4600 at 600 frei with 0.11-0.15 error
I tried reset and reboot and nothing.

581 frei

http://prntscr.com/8mmmv2

I'm using a combo Corsair RM1000 for one unit and one RM1000 / CS 750 for the other.

HW 0.01% and 0.02% (the one with the CX)

Stable 20 hours 4.8TH for both.

550 frei
http://prntscr.com/8mm1w1

there is something going on  that is not quite right.


sometimes it just tosses errors at the 0.1100 rate  and hash drops off say 4500 vs 4800.

in my case I can do it with hard power down and then power up.  needing a soft boot to fix it.

my psu is solid 1600 evga p2  using 240 volts on a socket 2 feet away from the main box.

I do 11.94 volts after the power draw  12.07 before the power draw.

try to see if your cables drop to 11.80 or less.

I find these results interesting.   I would like to understand what is going on.  I thought I understood the performance of my S7 until yesterday when I had to reboot it several times to get back my full hash rate.    I thought that the hash rate was proportional to the number of working chips times the clock rate times (1 minus the hardware error rate).  Apparently, not so.  I found that the effective hash rate dropped significantly yesterday with no X's, the same clock rate, and same hardware error rate.  It did not seem to relate to chip temperatures, either.

Perhaps I will need to get out the volt meter and measure the power on the PCI-E connectors to see if this is a variable.  I have also been playing with fan speeds and it is also possible that my power line voltage varies.

Does anyone understand what is going on?  Is there hidden state inside the chips that cause them, for example, to disable some of the cores as a defense against hardware errors?  If so, perhaps this algorithm is too clever by half...

well I can test it right now.  I will lower fan speed which will raise temps.

you want to see 58c do well:

So here is fan 55% freq 600 temps at  53 all good after system reboot.

I will drop fan to 45% which should get the gear over 58C

http://i.imgur.com/KEJAcFv.png
http://i.imgur.com/tXRhqB9.png

So I just did a new setup with fan at 45% temps should be higher then my 52 52 53.

and after 1 minute I am running at temps of  53 54 54  and my errors are 0.0401
after 3 minutes I am running at temps of 55 56 56 and my errors are 0.0286  and hash rate is 4553

I will let it run for 15 minutes I may need to slow the fans more since I seem to be at temps of 55 56 56

It has settled in at  4712 gh
temps of 54 ,55, 56
errors of  0.0240%
fan speed is 45%

so I will drop the fan speed to 40%.


http://i.imgur.com/eN3QQ3g.png

with fan speed at 40%    freq at 600   temps are now 58 58 59

 I am hanging in  with 4717  errors are 0.0201

 so far testing seems to show keep your temps at 52-54c or lower.  I will run this at fan 40% to see If it gets better or worse then below.

Fan 55% gave me cool numbers and good hash rate.

Thanks Phil!  The S5s acted the same way for me also...soft reboots usually brought the hashrates back to normal after crappy looks on power offs.  I would have never guessed this behavior would carry forward to different machines.