Personally I don't see a problem with copying the content of things like TOS or FAQ ect... from places with a proven track record. They tend to cover all the bases a business would need to know about to be a success. I definately wouldn't do a cut n paste, but copying content such as features, services, information ect. saves time and headache for businesses starting up.
It happens every day.
Topic: My concerns with Bitcoin7 and Tradehill (Read 4140 times)
fxgmblr, MtGox is ONE person, Mark (aka MtGox).
why don't you ask Citibank or BoA if they would take your bitcoins
why don't you ask Citibank or BoA if they would take your bitcoins
joepie91, can you please explain what exactly it is that you're asking?
both places look shady, probably run by single users, not some real "company"
people, don't kid yourselves... legal/illegal, jurisdiction, who's behind what... c'mon!
bitcoin is NEW. there's no case law involving it. NOBODY knows if it's legal or not...
As I have said at least two times by now, I am talking about other (fiat) currencies that can be exchanged for each other, not about Bitcoins. bitcoin is NEW. there's no case law involving it. NOBODY knows if it's legal or not...
reality check: why do you think liberty reserve and pecunix are NOT incorporated in the US / EU?
take a deep breath and think about it...
take a deep breath and think about it...
people, don't kid yourselves... legal/illegal, jurisdiction, who's behind what... c'mon!
bitcoin is NEW. there's no case law involving it. NOBODY knows if it's legal or not...
in the US of A, trading gold online was legal until a judge ruled that e-gold :-) was... illegal!
same with other jurisdictions... PLEASE... wishful thinking is NOT reality...
I would rather trust an exchange running over TOR or incorporated in a "safe jurisdiction" than an US LLC which can get a subpoena any day...
with the Panama company, worst case scenario I lose my bitcoins...
with the US LLC, I may end up with the feds at my door!
maybe Gavin can straighten it out with the CIA?
bitcoin is NEW. there's no case law involving it. NOBODY knows if it's legal or not...
in the US of A, trading gold online was legal until a judge ruled that e-gold :-) was... illegal!
same with other jurisdictions... PLEASE... wishful thinking is NOT reality...
I would rather trust an exchange running over TOR or incorporated in a "safe jurisdiction" than an US LLC which can get a subpoena any day...
with the Panama company, worst case scenario I lose my bitcoins...
with the US LLC, I may end up with the feds at my door!
maybe Gavin can straighten it out with the CIA?
Bitcoin7:
* Hard to track down who is behind it
just wondering do you know who is behind mtgox or btcex?
Of course, Mark Karpleles (MagicalTux) runs MTGox. He is a very well known member of the community, let alone the fact that everybody knows his real name, and where his company is located.
Roberto
Tradehill has no doubt emulated some aspects of mtgox's design, which I think was to give the users a sense of familiarity. But to accuse them of "copying" the design, is simply ridiculous. Similarity in terms of functionality and appearance between TH and mtgox is about 20% at most.
There is definitely something about Mt. Gox to copy. Quick comparison of main layout elements, obviously showing things being copied:
Now I am not a particular supporter of copyright law as it stands, but I do believe that you can't simply copy the entire design (and make a few changes) for commercial purposes, especially not for a relatively lucrative business.
The thing about referal programs is just based on what I have experienced in the past few years, from an "internet user" viewpoint. It's all great that you look at it from an "ecommerce guy" viewpoint, but it's the "regular internet users" that have to deal with the consequences - and from a "regular internet user" viewpoint I've found that I (and many others with me) have usually found companies that rely this heavily on referal systems, are often shady in one way or another.
I understand your point about physical location, but I tried to make a point about American vs West-European mostly. I don't think that for example a UK-based business would be any different from a US-based business in that regard.
LOL I think this conversation is over.
I have proved my points exactly.
The Western European vs American argument is completely erroneous to the topic were discussing
oh and by the way, bringing those screenshots was a waste of effort on your part and did not help your case at all LOL
Cheers buddy
TradeHill is an American company?
I am tired of trying to decipher Magical Tux's thick Jap accent
Yes sir! The management are Americans based in Chile, and the programming and design team in Washington, DC.
Well, Chile is in America too - just not in the "United States"!
Anyways - calling a completely basic design (horizontal + vertical navbar, company name in the footer(!)...) a ripoff is a bit much in my opinion.
People are used to this layout from MtGox - why suddenly swith to something completely new and out-of-the-box, just to be different?!
My point is not that it's similar, but that it's practically identical. The tradehill layout is basically the Mt. Gox layout/design with a color change, a font size change, some changes in the text, a different logo, and the exchange rate bar removed. The menu (with the shadow effect thing) for example is a dead giveaway.Anyways - calling a completely basic design (horizontal + vertical navbar, company name in the footer(!)...) a ripoff is a bit much in my opinion.
People are used to this layout from MtGox - why suddenly swith to something completely new and out-of-the-box, just to be different?!
bitcoin7 is "operating unlicensed and therefore illegally (in their jurisdiction)"
What licenses are required to operate a bitcoin exchange in the United States?
Especially given that BTC aren't recognized as a currency, aren't they just the equivalent of people buying/selling WoW gold on eBay?
Also, does TH have whatever the appropriate licences are?
What licenses are required to operate a bitcoin exchange in the United States?
Especially given that BTC aren't recognized as a currency, aren't they just the equivalent of people buying/selling WoW gold on eBay?
Also, does TH have whatever the appropriate licences are?
Quote
Also making claims that someone is operating "illegally" is quite easy - especially with BTC there's not that much regulated or available, as it is a relatively new field of operations. It's very often not sure for example if BTC are "money", "goods" or anything else.
This claim was in regards to the various non-Bitcoin currencies that were used. Again I can't recall in exactly what thread it was (and the forum is too slow now for me to go look for it), but someone pointed out that under their jurisdiction they would be operation illegally because of the other currencies, not because of Bitcoin.
IMHO exchanging between fiat currencies requires a license, selling series of 0s and 1s does not
bitcoin7 is "operating unlicensed and therefore illegally (in their jurisdiction)"
What licenses are required to operate a bitcoin exchange in the United States?
Especially given that BTC aren't recognized as a currency, aren't they just the equivalent of people buying/selling WoW gold on eBay?
Also, does TH have whatever the appropriate licences are?
What licenses are required to operate a bitcoin exchange in the United States?
Especially given that BTC aren't recognized as a currency, aren't they just the equivalent of people buying/selling WoW gold on eBay?
Also, does TH have whatever the appropriate licences are?
Sure, they're Americans...in Chile.
I think those could be C.I.A. guys that murdered Salvador Allende and installed Pinochet.
Before I say anything, let me get this straight: I do NOT accuse either site of being a scam or not being trustworthy. This is just a list of concerns I have regarding the two that may be worth looking into, and my own reasons as to why I am wary of these exchanges.
Also, please leave out the matter of countries that the exchanges originate from. It has no use to use statistics to determine whether an exchange is trustable or not, instead it would be a better idea to look at concrete information and facts.
So recently two new exchanges, Bitcoin7 and Tradehill, have popped up. A few things that are bothering me.
Tradehill:
1. * Seems to have copied the design (CSS / page structure) from Mt. Gox and modified it.
2. * Copypasted the FAQ from BitcoinExchange.cc (using Google Cache you can see a version of their FAQ where in one place it actually said "BitcoinExchange" instead of "Tradehill")
3. * Set up out of nowhere by what looks like an unknown member within "the community", yet immediately looks very polished.
4. * Has a stable, almost artificial looking, volume, while on other exchanges the volume fluctuates a lot more
5. * Has a refferal system that offers discounts
6. * Grows from nowhere to reasonable big (compared to other exchanges) in a matter of days.
Also, please leave out the matter of countries that the exchanges originate from. It has no use to use statistics to determine whether an exchange is trustable or not, instead it would be a better idea to look at concrete information and facts.
So recently two new exchanges, Bitcoin7 and Tradehill, have popped up. A few things that are bothering me.
Tradehill:
1. * Seems to have copied the design (CSS / page structure) from Mt. Gox and modified it.
2. * Copypasted the FAQ from BitcoinExchange.cc (using Google Cache you can see a version of their FAQ where in one place it actually said "BitcoinExchange" instead of "Tradehill")
3. * Set up out of nowhere by what looks like an unknown member within "the community", yet immediately looks very polished.
4. * Has a stable, almost artificial looking, volume, while on other exchanges the volume fluctuates a lot more
5. * Has a refferal system that offers discounts
6. * Grows from nowhere to reasonable big (compared to other exchanges) in a matter of days.
I'm gonna respond to all your points here:
1. MtGox (Gox) barely has a page structure to begin with, the site is very simple with only a few links on the left. Once you login to TradeHill (TH) the site is wildly different than Gox
2. Not sure of this, however that dosent really make a difference. Most sites copy their competitors information
3. Being polished has nothing to do with being set up out of nowhere. TH has a team of excellent programmers based here in the United States.
4. Can't really answer this, they are a much smaller site although the second largest exchange.
5. Thats what made them grow. Its a pretty good marketing strategy actually.
6. I answered this above ^. They are growing fast because they have a good, American based team, they answer CS issues quickly, they have a nice site, and good business ethics. I think they will surpass Japanese based Gox in a few months forsure.
I must point out that I know the TradeHill team personally so my response is a tad biased towards them. My point being, I trust TradeHill more than Gox. The only reason we all use Gox is because they were the first ones.
Bitcoin Market was first. MTGox was the first to go 24/7
I'm disappointed to learn that TH is American. I wish for diversity in our exchanges.
However, the OP's concerns are NOT enough for me to stay away from TH.
However, the OP's concerns are NOT enough for me to stay away from TH.
These exchanges are popular because they have a combination of:
1) Look good.
2) Have some sorta API, or are going to
3) Allow lots of payment/withdraw methods
4) Ref. System.
And looking good shouldn't be anything fishy to be appalled by lol. With the recent BTC buzz I'd say we can expect more and more exchanges to pop up.
1) Look good.
2) Have some sorta API, or are going to
3) Allow lots of payment/withdraw methods
4) Ref. System.
And looking good shouldn't be anything fishy to be appalled by lol. With the recent BTC buzz I'd say we can expect more and more exchanges to pop up.
Well, Chile is in America too - just not in the "United States"!
Anyways - calling a completely basic design (horizontal + vertical navbar, company name in the footer(!)...) a ripoff is a bit much in my opinion.
People are used to this layout from MtGox - why suddenly swith to something completely new and out-of-the-box, just to be different?!
Anyways - calling a completely basic design (horizontal + vertical navbar, company name in the footer(!)...) a ripoff is a bit much in my opinion.
People are used to this layout from MtGox - why suddenly swith to something completely new and out-of-the-box, just to be different?!
Sure, they're Americans...in Chile.
There is definitely something about Mt. Gox to copy. Quick comparison of main layout elements, obviously showing things being copied:
Now I am not a particular supporter of copyright law as it stands, but I do believe that you can't simply copy the entire design (and make a few changes) for commercial purposes, especially not for a relatively lucrative business.
The thing about referal programs is just based on what I have experienced in the past few years, from an "internet user" viewpoint. It's all great that you look at it from an "ecommerce guy" viewpoint, but it's the "regular internet users" that have to deal with the consequences - and from a "regular internet user" viewpoint I've found that I (and many others with me) have usually found companies that rely this heavily on referal systems, are often shady in one way or another.
I understand your point about physical location, but I tried to make a point about American vs West-European mostly. I don't think that for example a UK-based business would be any different from a US-based business in that regard.
LOL I think this conversation is over.
I have proved my points exactly.
The Western European vs American argument is completely erroneous to the topic were discussing
oh and by the way, bringing those screenshots was a waste of effort on your part and did not help your case at all LOL
Cheers buddy
TradeHill is an American company?
I am tired of trying to decipher Magical Tux's thick Jap accent
Yes sir! The management are Americans based in Chile, and the programming and design team in Washington, DC.
Thanks for responding!
1. I guess you missed my point, thats my fault. What I was getting at is they did not copy Mt.Gox, in fact, theres nothing about Mt.Gox to copy. Have you logged into TH? You'll see their site is wildly different then Gox
2. In pretty much every industry, something trivial like the FAQ, will be used as a basis for a competitor. Agreed, they should not have copy-pasted it, but if those are your grounds for being not trusted, then your gonna have to have more than that my friend!
3. Yup, a really good team! Thats why they will surpass Gox in a few months.
5. I assume thats your own personal opinion and not your professional one? I've been in the marketing industry for over 8 years and referral programs most defiantly do not mean that. Try to look at it like this, can you think of a more cost-effective method of marketing an exchange in such a new and young industry?
6. Again, are you someone who's in the e-commerce industry? If you are, you definitely know that an American company who is catering to an English speaking consumer base is much better than a Japanese one. ESPECIALLY a company in which your transferring thousands of dollars to! I don't know about you, but I'd rather the American one.
I hope I articulated my points, let me know if you have any questions!
TradeHill is an American company?
I am tired of trying to decipher Magical Tux's thick Jap accent
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