I understand the point you are making. We probably need infinite numbers, alphabet and symbols to make private keys impossible to hack. Unfortunately computers do not offer this infinity. The whole thing is randomized finite numbers, alphabets and symbols. This makes hacking very possible and probably easy with a very advanced technology.
I strongly doubt it will take many years to hack this things. They probably won't do it now because it will expose the technology?
Topic: My reasoning why Bitcoin could collapse (soon) .. privatekeys/publickeys (Read 457 times)
June 23, 2019, 04:43:05 PM
June 21, 2019, 08:33:06 PM
People are aiming to be at the moon with bitcoin. You're just thinking and solving private keys of how you dream of bitcoin collapsing. The earlier you remove such believe the better for you. Bitcoin is standing firm and no falling. Invest now and smile tomorrow
June 12, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
If you think that crypto or Bitcoin would collapse soon then why are you still here?
Your reason or theory really seem's good but don't you think that the crypto community wouldn't be ready for that?
Why do you think that there is so many platform for security the Ledger Nano and Trezor would surely have a countermeasure for this kinds of issue.
So calm down and relax you are way too tense and overthinking things .
Your reason or theory really seem's good but don't you think that the crypto community wouldn't be ready for that?
Why do you think that there is so many platform for security the Ledger Nano and Trezor would surely have a countermeasure for this kinds of issue.
So calm down and relax you are way too tense and overthinking things .
June 12, 2019, 02:36:01 AM
i don't see any "reasoning" here! you just claimed it in your title and then went on to talk about how you don't understand how bitcoin and the cryptography that it uses work. and then explained how you have little understanding of it all. so basically you are making a conclusion based on your paranoia and guesses you have made because of it and expect bitcoin to "collapse" for that!!! that doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
June 12, 2019, 01:22:18 AM
Criminals can't even brute force or crack a 3 or 4 digit code to open the door to peoples houses so how on earth will they do what you say? People still use passwords to unlock their door or main gate. If brute forcing was so easy then surely criminals could create some sort of device to crack a 4 digit number? Yet they have not.
Your analogy is flawed.Keypads like this almost always have a limit to how many attempts you can try, usually in the region of 3 or 5. It is impossible to "brute force" something if you don't have a significant number of tries. If you can only try 0.03% of all possibilities before the system locks you out, you will never brute force the correct code. If you are trying to brute force a bitcoin key, you can have as many attempts as you like. No one is going to lock you out of trying as many different combinations as you want. Bitcoin is safe from this kind of attack not because no one can brute force a PIN code, but because even if you used every computer on the planet to try to brute force a private key, you wouldn't find a single match before the heat death of the universe.
I didn't actually think of that. Yes you right you can only have a few numbers of tries. I think that when computers reach a point they can crack a private key that we will simple use the method you juts discussed.
You can have a certain amount of attempts to get the private key right or you get locked out a certain amount of time. Satoshi is clever and has thought of all this though.
Lol not even the death star can brute force privatekeys
June 11, 2019, 07:09:43 PM
trying to find a public address from the richlist and then attempt to get to its specific private key using reverse engineering is a project even your descendants in thousands of years wont complete,
trying to brute force through all possible private key numbers until you find the public address from the richlist is a project even your descendants in thousands of years wont complete,
within that time period the actual owner can spend/move.
the resources expended to attempt this far outweighs the reward.
the only way would be to physically find the owner of the funds. and with a hammer to their knuckles attempt to get them to reveal their private key. or to hack the location their private key is stored.
in short.
the math of cryptography is secure. your only worry is where and how you store the private key physically. which is only really a worry if you start shouting out that your rich enough for an un-ethical person to want to steal from you physically
trying to brute force through all possible private key numbers until you find the public address from the richlist is a project even your descendants in thousands of years wont complete,
within that time period the actual owner can spend/move.
the resources expended to attempt this far outweighs the reward.
the only way would be to physically find the owner of the funds. and with a hammer to their knuckles attempt to get them to reveal their private key. or to hack the location their private key is stored.
in short.
the math of cryptography is secure. your only worry is where and how you store the private key physically. which is only really a worry if you start shouting out that your rich enough for an un-ethical person to want to steal from you physically
I also agree, we only need to worry about how we save about security itself.
But wait, even if the cryptography is safe, why isn't the security of the exchange built using that basis? why are there still exchange events being hacked?
June 11, 2019, 06:15:04 PM
Having said all that, if something like Quantum Computing or similar ever did become a credible risk, we could simply soft-fork to a new algorithm to mitigate it.
Yes, but there's no way to fully mitigate the problem, i.e. move the entire supply to quantum-safe addresses. P2PK outputs from 2009-2011 -- like the Satoshi coins -- and of course any coins sitting in reused addresses would be at risk. There could be millions of previously "lost" coins that could be brute-forced over time. Lost coins certainly won't be donations to holders in that case!
Lamport signatures would also be horrible for scalability. Hopefully something better comes along.
June 11, 2019, 04:22:54 PM
You well entitle to your own opinion, I stand to be corrected, I don't see any system or Ai cracking but coin cryptography , and if this should happen, it means the entire worlds financial system would be susceptible to such Ai. To be bitcoin is secured and would remain so.
June 11, 2019, 04:15:39 PM
Criminals can't even brute force or crack a 3 or 4 digit code to open the door to peoples houses so how on earth will they do what you say? People still use passwords to unlock their door or main gate. If brute forcing was so easy then surely criminals could create some sort of device to crack a 4 digit number? Yet they have not.
Your analogy is flawed.Keypads like this almost always have a limit to how many attempts you can try, usually in the region of 3 or 5. It is impossible to "brute force" something if you don't have a significant number of tries. If you can only try 0.03% of all possibilities before the system locks you out, you will never brute force the correct code. If you are trying to brute force a bitcoin key, you can have as many attempts as you like. No one is going to lock you out of trying as many different combinations as you want. Bitcoin is safe from this kind of attack not because no one can brute force a PIN code, but because even if you used every computer on the planet to try to brute force a private key, you wouldn't find a single match before the heat death of the universe.
June 11, 2019, 04:07:42 PM
OP, the reason why Bitcoin could collapse is the very much reasons why you should stick with the said Bitcoin becasue it is the future money for all. Believe me mate that if you refuse to invest now you may regret it tomorrow, so, ensure you secure your place into the future.
June 11, 2019, 03:55:13 PM
I've reasoned to not buy anymore, for investment. I never held a large amount of a coin, up to a few hundred dollars, but I've reasoned this.
Every public key related to an exact private key.
The algorithm to keep the private key a secret is very complicated.
I know if you google about brute force cracking public to private keys, it would take something, like, millions of years, with the current technology.
Though, I've also read, a few years ago, about things like "Rainbow Tables", that find patterns and stuff while trying to crack stuff, in a complicated way.
Now, Technology, and I'm thinking software now, is obviously evolving at increasing rate.
Artificial Intelligence is to.
I was looking plainly at a public and private key, and though, they're a bunch of keyboard keys , and one relates to another, so, they're the same thing, private
key, public key.
But obviously I couldn't find a pattern simply by looking at the characters. Maybe someone very smart could looking at a few hundred or so and figure it out, that would be wild.
Anyway, obviously some kind of pattern COULD exist, and I'm not saying I'm right, because I do not comprehend the cryptography behind it, I only know some basic coding in a couple languages, but nothing about cryptography. I do know, that a lot of smart people, are working on AI, as it's the future of stuff.
So, why couldn't a coder, start coding, methods where the software its self, in an AI way, start finding patterns in these private and public keys? I haven't been looking into BTC in a while, maybe there's articles about this already, but I was just thinking about it.
I think its possible a group, or someone, could find a pattern, using advanced code, Ai in mind, to decipher public keys.
The method of how it's encrypted is known, (Though, Wow, it seems confusing)
But the fact that that's known, and that it's a series of characters, means, there could (I think there IS) patterns to easily crack any public key, with a very sophisticated method, AI coding (If that's a term)
If that happened, and groups of people figured this out, the whole thing and all the alties would collapse.
Those are my thoughts. I don't "invest" anymore though I think its a great future as a currency even in practical non-tech environment, like a credit card.
What do you think?
bitcoin private key is up to 64 character in my opinion i dont think its possibleEvery public key related to an exact private key.
The algorithm to keep the private key a secret is very complicated.
I know if you google about brute force cracking public to private keys, it would take something, like, millions of years, with the current technology.
Though, I've also read, a few years ago, about things like "Rainbow Tables", that find patterns and stuff while trying to crack stuff, in a complicated way.
Now, Technology, and I'm thinking software now, is obviously evolving at increasing rate.
Artificial Intelligence is to.
I was looking plainly at a public and private key, and though, they're a bunch of keyboard keys , and one relates to another, so, they're the same thing, private
key, public key.
But obviously I couldn't find a pattern simply by looking at the characters. Maybe someone very smart could looking at a few hundred or so and figure it out, that would be wild.
Anyway, obviously some kind of pattern COULD exist, and I'm not saying I'm right, because I do not comprehend the cryptography behind it, I only know some basic coding in a couple languages, but nothing about cryptography. I do know, that a lot of smart people, are working on AI, as it's the future of stuff.
So, why couldn't a coder, start coding, methods where the software its self, in an AI way, start finding patterns in these private and public keys? I haven't been looking into BTC in a while, maybe there's articles about this already, but I was just thinking about it.
I think its possible a group, or someone, could find a pattern, using advanced code, Ai in mind, to decipher public keys.
The method of how it's encrypted is known, (Though, Wow, it seems confusing)
But the fact that that's known, and that it's a series of characters, means, there could (I think there IS) patterns to easily crack any public key, with a very sophisticated method, AI coding (If that's a term)
If that happened, and groups of people figured this out, the whole thing and all the alties would collapse.
Those are my thoughts. I don't "invest" anymore though I think its a great future as a currency even in practical non-tech environment, like a credit card.
What do you think?
one lifetime is not enough to crack or brute force private key
well for me i will also not buy things that i dont understand
June 11, 2019, 03:36:09 PM
Oh gosh.... 
Criminals can't even brute force or crack a 3 or 4 digit code to open the door to peoples houses so how on earth will they do what you say? People still use passwords to unlock their door or main gate. If brute forcing was so easy then surely criminals could create some sort of device to crack a 4 digit number? Yet they have not. SO if they can't do that and we do not have to be paranoid about people gaining access to our property then why should we be paranoid of something that is 25 characters long or 12 secret words?
You should be more paranoid that there is a bomb under your car each day before you go to work. Also like others have said if they could do this then banks would be in serious trouble.
Criminals can't even brute force or crack a 3 or 4 digit code to open the door to peoples houses so how on earth will they do what you say? People still use passwords to unlock their door or main gate. If brute forcing was so easy then surely criminals could create some sort of device to crack a 4 digit number? Yet they have not. SO if they can't do that and we do not have to be paranoid about people gaining access to our property then why should we be paranoid of something that is 25 characters long or 12 secret words?
You should be more paranoid that there is a bomb under your car each day before you go to work. Also like others have said if they could do this then banks would be in serious trouble.
June 11, 2019, 03:15:41 PM
What do you think?
read your title:
My reasoning why Bitcoin could collapse (soon) .. privatekeys/publickeys
Bitcoin could collapse soon?
this shows that you are paranoid, look at many posts that are in this thread, nobody believes in your theory. You just do not like bitcoin, that's why you do not invest in bitcoin anymore. But do not use meaningless arguments to justify why you do not buy bitcoin anymore
June 11, 2019, 10:30:47 AM
if you don't invest again it might be your choice, because in my opinion investing is a gamble and it cannot be sure that it will succeed. most people think investing makes them rich easily, in fact it doesn't. in my opinion, only investing in crypto can do that even though the risk is big but some people in this forum already feel it.
and one thing for you is that bitcoin will not collapse because no company controls it.
and one thing for you is that bitcoin will not collapse because no company controls it.
June 11, 2019, 10:28:10 AM
If such a pattern exists, we would have broken a lot of encryption algorithms by now, but only a few have been broken thus far (SHA-1, among others).
SHA-1 isn't exactly broken. they just found an easier way to find a hash collision which is still pretty hard to find which means you can find 2 messages if you look hard enough that return same hash. other than that you still can't reverse it (find the message by having the hash result) and you can't find a second preimage for it (meaning find another message that hashes to same result by having the hash). 
June 11, 2019, 10:04:18 AM
Anyway, obviously some kind of pattern COULD exist, and I'm not saying I'm right, because I do not comprehend the cryptography behind it, I only know some basic coding in a couple languages, but nothing about cryptography. I do know, that a lot of smart people, are working on AI, as it's the future of stuff.
If such a pattern exists, we would have broken a lot of encryption algorithms by now, but only a few have been broken thus far (SHA-1, among others).
So, why couldn't a coder, start coding, methods where the software its self, in an AI way, start finding patterns in these private and public keys? I haven't been looking into BTC in a while, maybe there's articles about this already, but I was just thinking about it.
The problem here is not reliant solely on the coder but the technology and hardware that we currently have today. Sure, a brilliant coder could have made an AI that is so advanced and self-learning that in time, would be able to do a lot of things. The question is, how would that AI continue learning if it is bound/limited by the hardware it runs on? Take note, the Moore's law has been somewhat dead, and with that said I don't think the rate to which we will have advancements on processing power is fast enough to beat/decipher the pub/priv key pairs through brute-forcing.
I think its possible a group, or someone, could find a pattern, using advanced code, Ai in mind, to decipher public keys.
The method of how it's encrypted is known, (Though, Wow, it seems confusing)
But the fact that that's known, and that it's a series of characters, means, there could (I think there IS) patterns to easily crack any public key, with a very sophisticated method, AI coding (If that's a term)
The method of how it's encrypted is known, (Though, Wow, it seems confusing)
But the fact that that's known, and that it's a series of characters, means, there could (I think there IS) patterns to easily crack any public key, with a very sophisticated method, AI coding (If that's a term)
If an array of millions of highly-advanced processors cannot decipher this code you're referring to, how would an AI, or better yet a group of people come up with a solution? Not that I'm belittling the minds of our geniuses but again, current technology is lacking to do just that.
If that happened, and groups of people figured this out, the whole thing and all the alties would collapse.
Yes, or we move on into another encryption algorithm which is exponentially better than what we had, by then.
June 11, 2019, 09:41:05 AM
It's kinda scary is someone can determined the pattern in our public and private keys because if it will happen then there is no doubt that bitcoin and other currencies will surely collapse.
But I am wondering if the project owners, developers and team behind in any project will let this kind of happenings to happen in the future. If the technology and other stuff are evolving then there is no doubt that the developers of any project will also evolve to the next level just to protect that hard earned money of their investors.
But I am wondering if the project owners, developers and team behind in any project will let this kind of happenings to happen in the future. If the technology and other stuff are evolving then there is no doubt that the developers of any project will also evolve to the next level just to protect that hard earned money of their investors.
June 11, 2019, 09:17:48 AM
Anyway, obviously some kind of pattern COULD exist, and I'm not saying I'm right, because I do not comprehend the cryptography behind it, I only know some basic coding in a couple languages, but nothing about cryptography.
If you don't know about something, you shouldn't have any strong opinions about it, because you will most likely be wrong, and yet you do exactly this - you doubt cryptography, which is fundamental to the modern world, because it is integral part of electronic communication and security. If some "AI", like you are saying, would crack cryptography, it wouldn't be just Bitcoin that would get affected, the whole Internet could be destroyed. So if this is what keeps you from investing in BTC, you might as well start prepping for doomsday, and you can start by withdrawing all your moneys from your bank and buying gold, guns and canned food.
June 11, 2019, 09:16:15 AM
The encryption algorithms behind Bitcoin aren't new. They aren't something created out of thin air, which someone found complicated and fancy enough not to be broken.
They had been throughly tested and trusted long before Bitcoin existed.
And cryptographers aren't the kind of people who just "accept something because it's widely used". Insecure algorithms are being actively discouraged and deprecated (MD5 is an example).
They had been throughly tested and trusted long before Bitcoin existed.
And cryptographers aren't the kind of people who just "accept something because it's widely used". Insecure algorithms are being actively discouraged and deprecated (MD5 is an example).
June 11, 2019, 09:03:45 AM
Seems like you're too doubtful about cryptocurrency's security. You should know that crypto wallets aren't the same as any bank related cards which could be cracked easily.
I haven't heard any news about private key's cracking. Not investing in crypto is a choice that you have to think of. Don't lose the opportunity to earn better in the future.
I haven't heard any news about private key's cracking. Not investing in crypto is a choice that you have to think of. Don't lose the opportunity to earn better in the future.
Jump to: