Topic: Mycelium's "crowdsale": basically a donation, not an investment by any means - page 14. (Read 21226 times)

I can't create new account on the crowdsale...

The notification email never arrives..

I think it's a free market after all. People should just do their homework and then decide if a investment makes sense ore not. Provided that there are no hidden terms, it's not a crime to have simply bad terms in an offering, because nobody is forced to buy it. You can't save people from bad decisions.

That said, I think Mycelium's crowdsale is not attractive at all and I will certainly not "invest". However Bitcoiners are used to invest in almost anything that is offered to them. If you look at the terms (if there are any) of most "Bitcoin stocks", you will discover that the holders of these financial entities have no rights at all. So compared to the peer group Mycelium's offer might actually seem superior...

ya.ya.yo!

I don't work for that, or any of the dozen other bitcoin news companies that interviewed me. I usually catch and email them about issues (Core nose?), but I can only do so much.

One of the guys who wanted to buy a lot seems to be a bit flakey, so may not invest after all (we don't know either way). But the crowdsale ends in 12 hours, so I guess that won't matter. We just added Glidera support, and will be demonstrating Mycelium Swish at the National Restaurant Association in Chicago, and long term plan to incorporate Swish into our new wallet as well, so even more revenues should that succeed (that system is super easy to use!). All the people talking about "Randian heroes" or whatever said whatever they wanted to say, and I've answered whatever questions people had, so now it's just my job to work and try to make this happen, and their job to sit on their asses and watch.


https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/mycelium-bitcoin-wallet-crowdsale-closes-in-on-million-fundraise-integrates-glidera-1463584565

Says the guy wearing a signature, advertising an ICO xD .
Thanks for the heads up about this. Now I can go warn people about it since I was never planning (luckily) to get involved with Mycelium's crowdsale. I thought it looked legit at first glance and I actually considered buying a small share, but there isn't a chance I will purchase a share anymore after reading this..

But you need to be a lawyer to know if what we're selling is securities, and what jurisdictions they should be registered in, and which they're already legal in. I've heard all of this already since the start of this sale. As I said, consult your lawyer. If you think this is illegal where you live, please don't break laws and don't participate.


I meant anything investment wise. There's a reason NYC is on the same list as North Korea and Iran with a lot of bitcoin companies. Worse yet, these guys can make things illegal retroactively, so fuckem.


Pretty sure whoever draws up brochures for companies that does IPOs isn't help liable should that IPO go south. But, again, I am not a lawyer. If you are not a lawyer either, then your advice is not valid either (and probably illegal in the state of NY

It is. You are getting a right to appreciation of company value, with the right to have it be converted into stock should the company go through an IPO. We're just not giving this away for free.

Stop giving away worthless legal advice, unless you are a lawyer. If you have some questions or concerns about the company or the project, feel free to ask/address them. If you are confused as to what kind of philosophy our owners and developers have, I can explain that too.

I am not a lawyer. You are not a lawyer either. I'm sure in some jurisdictions, like NYC, anything you sell is illegal. Our legal team said this is ok. I can only trust their word on this.


I am not the one selling these tokens. I am not the one receiving the money from the sale either. I'm just answering questions on what these are, how they work, and what the company expects. I'm not promising profits, I'm not saying this is legal (consult your own lawyer before you buy this) and I'm not claiming this is a good idea. I am also not participating in this sale myself. None of the managers and owners are.


Yes, we know. There's no rule against selling them either. So we're trying something new.


Regarding detective work, I'm not sure why it's needed. I'm not hiding anything. Everything about the company and the sale is public. All the addresses, along with all our names and faces are right here https://wallet.mycelium.com/about.html Regarding the mailing address, please use e-mail. We all live all around the world, and our CEO travels a lot. Also, don't forget that our customers are typically the grey market types, not the everything-by-the-book types, and we have built our reputation within that space (where reputation is everything), so that's probably why there's such a disconnect between Mycelium "shills" and the "detectives." Some trust us based on our philosophy, others think it's sketchy to not have absolutely everything covered by legal. For me, personally, I have been in this space for years (since early 2011), have practically dedicated my life to it, and don't have any plans to disappear with the money. I may quit the company in a very public way if I believe that it is doing something I believe is unethical (like spying on our users, or using money inappropriately), since I don't exactly need the money myself (technically retired over two years ago). But I hope to be in this space and this business community for as long as I can.

Seriously, though, what would you like to know?

i'm all for digging for the truth. i appreciate the efforts being made.

Dunno, there are some newbies that pop up here and there doing detective work. TurkistatnRising for example, found out (and posted) that Mycelium's physical address is actually a rent-a-desk service's address on his second post. On the one hand, we've got people claiming to have invested thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin in this and they're shamelessly shilling for Mycelium and on the other hand we get people like TurkistatnRising posting here, doing detective work on Mycelium (seemingly) with no gain on their end. It's weird, but this kind of balances shilling out.

it seems that this discussion has become academic as private investors have apparently filled the allocation.

Nice catch. Added to the OP.

Because we live in the world that we live in, where the answer to this is always "for legal and tax purposes." We used to be registered in Austria, but moved to Cyprus for those reasons.



We're not selling securities. And please do not break the law by buying these if it's illegal where you live.



For now yes. It's not my company, I am technically just a contractor. It's registered in Cyprus, with the Wallet division registered in Latvia.



When you buy them, you have to agree to and sign a contract with the company. The token is just an easy way to prove ownership. The jurisdiction may be listed in the contract, but considering we only ask for proof of ownership of the toke, and don't have any way of knowing where you are, jurisdiction doesn't matter for us. We'll honor it just based on honoring contracts being the ethical thing to do (AnCaps, remember?). Since this is a legal contract, most jurisdictions should be able to honor them too, but you'll have to check with your lawyer. Yes, we know what SARs are.

Did you check the OP?

why the two jurisdictions?

These are legally SAR contracts and give you all the same rights. It's a contract granting you ownership of a portion of the company, and any growth therein. And why would Mycelium register with the SEC when it's not a US company?
Company valuation is explicitly spelled out in the contract as trigger events, and happens any time another sale of company happens (we plan to sell 20% of dilutable shares next), or when company becomes profitable, or when someone buys out the company. The wallet division is wholly owned by a separate Mycelium entity, which is what is being sold off here. Mycelium the company owns things like Entropy, Gear, Swish, and Card, which are still too early to even know if they are profitable, and will be funded by personal and other private investment. The wallet is being sold in this manner because we believe it is the only product so far that actually has the potential to make money. You are free to invest in the whole company as well, just know that it's extremely risky right now.

As in those who didn't go through the online site, instead talking to our CEO in person and investing directly. We have had a few large investors expressing interest in wanting to invest without anyone else knowing who they are for whatever reason. Seems they went through with their stated interest after all. Maybe. Still waiting to confirm the funds.

"private investors" - when compared to what other kind of investors, in the context of an ICO?

This isn't a "token" like some altcoin or something. This is an actual stake ownership in the company. We are selling 5% of company ownership (the Wallet division), not just random tokens that don't mean anything.


Where do you get the idea that these tokens give you no rights whatsoever? When buying, you have to sign a contract with Mycelium that has a legal binding. It gives you legal rights to any increase in company valuation, and makes the token a transferable contract that grants you ownership rights to 5% of the company (which would go down if you pull your increased valuation cash out, of course).

The whole thing may be moot by now anyway though, since we set a cap of 7,500, and some private investors may have filled it all up by now. We won't update the final amount on the site until we know we have the money.

2000 bitcoin in so far anyway. I am still positive that the tokens will be worth a great deal when the new wallet launches. I can wait till next year for that. By that time the block halving will have settled down and the btc price will be slowly rising