Topic: Nanominer Announcement - page 4. (Read 11700 times)

Where are you based ?

..this becomes extremeley relevant when getting hardware shipped in to Eu, Finland to be more exact, automaticly adds a price of +23% for the hardwareand shipping/handling.

What is the cheapest FPGA that will work for mining, and that has a metal heat spreader? Heat is always a problem with mining, and a more efficient way to dissipate it may be worth some extra cost.

I'd also just like to make clear that an FPGA has not been chosen for this board in hopes that by the time things are ready, a chip other than the Spartan 6 might be cheaper or perform better. There are, however, candidates.

I am not planning on using a 28nm chip, either, unless something really, really unforseen happens.

In fact, so that there are no miscommunications, the current candidate FPGA device for Nanominer is an XC6SLX150.  That is subject to change.

I spoke with a distributor Friday, they're expecting late April, early May release of the Cyclone V.  However, these things change, or I may have been misinformed.  All that said, the philosophy stays the same: when the new set of chips come out, there will be either a performance bump or a price drop for us.  If the project is ready before the new chips come out, we'll start using one of the currently available candidate FPGAs and switch over later.  As stated in the initial post, this architecture supports upgraded chips via simple firmware updates.


Two important things there:
1) Making a PCB for 8 FPGAs forces people to buy in multiples of 8.  That's an expensive board.  Wouldn't you rather have the option of buying those 8 chips one at a time?
2) If you want to do the mass thing, you go ASIC, you don't buy 250K FPGAs.  When you pay for an FPGA you pay for a)performance and b)reprogrammabililty.  If you want a lot of them, and you don't need part b, you're going to save by making your own ASIC.  But that day has not come for bitcoin, not by a long shot.

It's my mission over the next while to prove we can.  I have the prototyping hardware at my disposal, so stay tuned.

The cheapest FPGA chip (best MHs/$ ratio) is the Spartan-6 LX-150 at the moment. Forget the EP4CGX15 or even the EP4CE6, first one I've used in another project. As long no one like wonderminder has any magical trick to squeeze much more out of this architecture then currently  possible, it desn't make sense. I don't know where you get the EP4CGX15 for only 6$, even in high volumes (normal price ~20$ for about ~100pcs), but if you need higher volumes of the Spartan-6 LX-150 you will also get a much better price then in low volumes.

You know (and granted I'm no expert) I've always wondered why don't fpga mining board designers just find the cheapest FPGA chip and slap a whole bunch of them on a PCB and cluster them. For example put 8 Cyclone IV chips on one board and get 600 Mh/s

But the problem may be getting them cheap enough without the need to buy them in massive bulk quantities...to quote a website: "The EP4CE6 and EP4CGX15: Starts at $3 and $6 for 250K pieces"

Anyone got $750,000 lying around?

First, I like your motivation to improve FGPA mining and don't want to frustrate you.

Just let me give you my feedback.

I'm quite sure that the Cyclone V will not be available for your project in the middle of the year.
Indeed the new 28nm FPGA's are quit interesting for mining, but it's expected that Xilinx will first get out with their Artix-7 before Altera can do with their Cyclone V.
They start the whole 28nm process-change far before Altera, and they have the very first 28nm FPGAs (e.g. Kintex-7 and Zynq) in small amounts 'available'.

And eveything looks like the new Xilinx chips (Artix-7) will not be available before at least 6-8 month, so I would not count on available Cyclone V chips before end of this year.

Current: Altera Cyclone IV vs. Xilinx Spartan-6
New: Altera Cyclone V vs. Xilinx Artix-7

Even if both new comparable FPGA series are available, we know from the current designs that the Xilinx FPGA's are more interesting for mining. Everything looks like this will also be the case with the new series.
You made very interesting announcements, that you think you will be able to squeeze out more MH/s on Cyclone IV chips (+75MH/s on a DE0 nano). How close did you already reach your expectations and who much hope did you still have to squeeze out more?  

I would wait until it is more likely that the new interesting 28nm Chips will be available soon and then think again if it still makes sense to start a project with them.

If you still have good ideas how to optimize the existing FPGA logic for mining, you can do it right away. With every new FPGA-miner the market for optimization growth.

Hope you can deliver. The price is definitely competitive.

Nanominer BitCoin Mining FPGA Platform – Coming Summer 2012


Specifications (Updated)
FPGA Mining Core: Xilinx Spartan-6 XC6SLX150 (N3FGG484C Package)
Controller Device (MCU): Microchip PIC32 (MX795F512L) [Motherboard Only]
Hashrate: 200 MH/s (per mining core)
Cores per Board: 1
Control Interface: Ethernet, USB
User Interface: PC/Linux/OSX GUI
Power Consumption (estimated): <10W
Expansion Method: Mezzanine Header Expansion Port

*Exact hardware subject to change without notice; performance will not be less than the above stated.

Design Philosophy

Open source technology:
Nanominer's schematics, parts lists, FPGA bitstreams, and source code, as well as the controller software will be freely available to all.  Want to improve it and build your own?  We encourage it!

High-tech power, low-tech simplicity:
Nanominer will ship ready to use.  Simply plug in the power supply, attach Nanominer via USB to your PC/Linux/Macintosh computer, or via Ethernet to your router/switch, start your software, and enter your details in the easy-to-use GUI.
Nanominer also ships ready to customize, with open sources and configuration via Ethernet or USB, you can tweak any aspect of the device's functionality to your heart's content.

Incremental Improvement:
A system can consist of a single board, or many, depending on what you would like to spend.  If you decide to add performance later, you can.  This also means that down the road, when new FPGA devices are released, and you want to upgrade, you can keep using the old with the new.  Nanominer version 1 will be able to have later versions plugged into it, so if you buy a main board now, that means you can keep reaping those savings far down the road.

Expansion without redundancy:
Nanominer uses a single controller and power supply for the main board, then can have additional mining cores stacked via mezzanine headers to add hashing power to your mining system.  Boards can also be daisy-chained, meaning you buy one controller board, and from then on it's just mining boards. Those savings in controller and power devices are passed on to you.

Mining should not cost the miner:
Nanominer's low wattage FPGA mining cores, extensible architecture, and small form factor mean you can mine without consuming undue space and power.  This makes mining simpler, and more profitable.

Decisions, decisions...
Nanominer is currently in the component identification stage, and some questions need to be answered.

Questions you can help us with are:
-Do you prefer Ethernet or USB as the control interface? Or are there other suggestions?
-Would you like an optional WiFi interface?
-We would like to provide a warranty on Nanominer devices; what would you as a customer like to see that warranty protect you against, and for how long?
-Is there anything else you'd like to see, functionality-wise, on this device?

Questions we're answering right now:
Q: What is the best FPGA we can put on this board?  
A: Altera's new Cyclone V device is releasing soon, and new technology means potential price drops.  This means that Nanominer may perform at more than 200 MH/s, or we may simply use an older chip at less of a cost.  Either way, time will tell.
Q: How much exactly will this cost?
A: If we were to build it now with a Spartan device, the price would be $275-300 USD for the main board, slightly less for an expansion (both 200 MH/s).  Depending on the features we do or do not include, and depending on how chip costs change with new technology being released, this figure may be less.  If we include a warranty, this figure may be more.

Finally, questions you might like to know the answer to yourself:
Q: You say 200 MH/s is the hashrate, how sure are you of this?
A: We have a number of candidate FPGAs in mind, and we're quoting 200 MH/s because we've proven that with a cost effective device, we can achieve that rate. Nanominer will not perform at less than 200 MH/s per board.  There is a possibility that it will perform better, however.

Q: Summer 2012? That's a long time to wait... why the late release?
A: Part of the reason is we're waiting for new technology to be released and prices to settle, so you get the most bang for your buck.  Once that happens, developing these things takes a lot of time and effort.  Also, I'm a university student, and my time will be much freer in the summer.

Q: You say boards can be stacked or daisy-chained? How many mining chips can I connect to one main board?
A: As far as stacking the boards, we'll recommend you don't stack more than sets of four; however it's technically up to you.  Daisy-chains require a cable that will be included.  The total number of miner cores per main board is limited only by bus performance.

Q: How accurate is that $275-$300 figure?
A: That is based on a parts order for the printing and assembly of 25 boards.  So it's very accurate for the time being.  If there's more interest, we'll make more boards, and because of bulk discounts, that price will go down.  If advances in technology this spring work to our advantage, again, that price will be reduced.  If a feature like WiFi or a warranty is added (these will be optional), that price would increase some, with obvious benefits.

Q: You mention “main boards” and “expansions”, what does this mean, exactly?
A: A Nanominer system consists of one controller board ($275-$300), and as many expansion boards (~$250) as you'd like, performing at 200 MH/s each.

Q: Does that price include cables, power supply, etc?
A: It does, and that accounts for the range.  There are a few parts we have candidates for but have not fixedly decided on.

Q: This is a pretty good price, what's the catch?
A: No catch.  Designing the system to run on a single power supply and single controller saves money.  Producing many similar boards means part discounts, and adding only my design time to the price tag means I'm only making enough profit for it all to be worthwhile.  Also, this won't be a fancy board; it'll be professional, but not flashy.  That also brings down the price some.

Thanks for reading, and please let me know what you'd like to see in this design.
As always I'm open to comments and suggestions, email, PM, or post.
Cheers!