Here is an outline of the calculation:
Assume you want to create electron/positron pairs from the flux.
You calculate the mass of the electron + the mass of the positron.
Now the amount of time/distance an electron/positron pair can wink into and exist before it has to wink out again is given by the uncertainty principle formula.
From this time/distance we can calculate the minimum and average electric field between the pair during the time they exist.
So if we create an electric field over the vacuum greater than that then we can "rip them appart" during the very short time that they wink in.
As we rip apart these pairs we can create two particle streams: one stream of electrons the other stream of positrons. Then, all that is needed is to accelerate the two streams using more electric fields and then toss the two streams out the back of the ship.
As I have said before this process takes energy that has to come from somewhere.
Topic: NASA Tests ‘Impossible’ no-fuel Quantum Space Engine – and it Actually Works - page 2. (Read 2574 times)
August 20, 2014, 06:18:47 PM
August 20, 2014, 06:06:16 PM
From the article at: http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.ca/2014/08/nasa-tests-impossible-no-fuel-quantum.html ...
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
Interesting, so they claim to be harnessing energy from the quantum vacuum. It has been known (theorised) for a while now that vacuum isn't actually empty, and consists of sub-atomic particles/phenomena constantly popping in and out of existence. This definitely should be researched further.
The question is exactly how this is happening, and whether it could work on a large scale. The comment about photon torpedoes seems a bit silly though
Gotcha, thanks for the explanation.
August 20, 2014, 06:03:39 PM
This is where hydrogen fuel cells and cold fusion will come in handy, we just have to solve the problem of where to get lots of electricity now, the trick is getting something to work that doesn't revolve around strapping a radioactive bomb to your ship.
To see the problems you run into let's take your example of the "cold fusion reactor". If it worked how would it work? Well by converting mass to energy - are you with me so far?Now we take that energy that was created by converting some of the mass of our ship and use this method to convert the energy back to matter so we can throw it off the ship.
It would have been better to just throw the original matter off the ship in the first place.
Do you see what I am saying?
August 20, 2014, 05:57:05 PM
This is where hydrogen fuel cells and cold fusion will come in handy, we just have to solve the problem of where to get lots of electricity now, the trick is getting something to work that doesn't revolve around strapping a radioactive bomb to your ship.
August 20, 2014, 05:54:44 PM
I studied this a bit in college and yes it should be possible to create a particle stream from the background quantum flux with a strong enough and dense enough electrical field. In fact, at that time I did a quick back of the envelope calculation on the required electrical field. Don't remember the answer but if I get some time I may redo the calculations. The particle stream thus produced could then be thrown out the back of a space ship in order to propel it forward.
I talked to my professors about it and they said, sure that should work.
However, due to the laws of physics, specifically the conservation of energy/mass/momentum, the amount of energy needed to do this is rather large and has to come from somewhere. So I can see a way to convert say sunlight into mass/momentum and orbit around a star (the source of energy for the engine) but if you are out between the stars you are screwed unless you cary a source of energy with you (nuclear perhaps?).
I don't really know why this is all being hyped as something new. I figured this out in the junior year in my EE degree in 1983 and as my professors said at that time "that is a well know theoretical engine design".
I talked to my professors about it and they said, sure that should work.
However, due to the laws of physics, specifically the conservation of energy/mass/momentum, the amount of energy needed to do this is rather large and has to come from somewhere. So I can see a way to convert say sunlight into mass/momentum and orbit around a star (the source of energy for the engine) but if you are out between the stars you are screwed unless you cary a source of energy with you (nuclear perhaps?).
I don't really know why this is all being hyped as something new. I figured this out in the junior year in my EE degree in 1983 and as my professors said at that time "that is a well know theoretical engine design".
August 20, 2014, 05:51:56 PM
Exactly right, so far they've only got some low powered prototypes but that's how you start, then you just make the engines way more efficient to the point they can handle much more mass.
August 20, 2014, 05:50:49 PM
From the article at: http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.ca/2014/08/nasa-tests-impossible-no-fuel-quantum.html ...
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
Interesting, so they claim to be harnessing energy from the quantum vacuum. It has been known (theorised) for a while now that vacuum isn't actually empty, and consists of sub-atomic particles/phenomena constantly popping in and out of existence. This definitely should be researched further.
The question is exactly how this is happening, and whether it could work on a large scale. The comment about photon torpedoes seems a bit silly though
August 20, 2014, 05:36:20 PM
Not sure what this person knows what they're talking about, I've been doing my own research into this, he links some perfectly reasonable stuff but I believe what he is talking about is the EmDrive I recognise the actual machine he posted, it's that one that looks like it's made from copper or something.
http://emdrive.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive
How do I know this? I'm researching about all this stuff on my own and no I won't fucking tell you why
there are a lot of misconceptions about this device but wikipedia is actually doing a good job of explaining things, it doesn't disobey the laws of physics like some people claim, it's using microwaves to power it along but honestly this looks like the classic rants of a blog poster.
http://emdrive.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive
How do I know this? I'm researching about all this stuff on my own and no I won't fucking tell you why
there are a lot of misconceptions about this device but wikipedia is actually doing a good job of explaining things, it doesn't disobey the laws of physics like some people claim, it's using microwaves to power it along but honestly this looks like the classic rants of a blog poster. August 20, 2014, 05:31:58 PM
From the article at: http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.ca/2014/08/nasa-tests-impossible-no-fuel-quantum.html ...
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
Interesting, so they claim to be harnessing energy from the quantum vacuum. It has been known (theorised) for a while now that vacuum isn't actually empty, and consists of sub-atomic particles/phenomena constantly popping in and out of existence. This definitely should be researched further.
The question is exactly how this is happening, and whether it could work on a large scale. The comment about photon torpedoes seems a bit silly though
EDIT: Also I don't quite know where the author is getting "dark matter" from. Although I'm no expert in quantum/astrophysics, dark matter is not the same as vacuum energy, also not to be confused with dark energy:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/120915a.html
August 20, 2014, 05:13:54 PM
From the article at: http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.ca/2014/08/nasa-tests-impossible-no-fuel-quantum.html ...
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
"That nicely ruined NASA's classical models. I no longer think that we are dealing with a Vacuum in space at all. We have dark matter instead that will decay into more complex particles from time to time. I am just beginning to query this core discovery so i do not yet wish to say more about this thruster except that producing a high powered thruster using dark matter now appears feasible."
Jump to: