Topic: [$NAUT] Nautiluscoin - First Coin w/Stabilization Fund - MODERATED - page 13. (Read 20514 times)

Yes, I agree if hybrid is not possible. If ever BTC changes to POS or a hybrid system then, POS will be much valuable.

So far with BTC this is not true though, mining has been far less profitable than buying and holding the coin.  By the time you order an ASIC, and even get it it could take a year that way.  Then you have to wait x amount of time to break even (which is usually exaggerated quite a bit)

The funds are there to spend either way, so I personally do not see how people would spend less money on buying rather than mining.  People just seem to think mining is more profitable, but with BTC so far, buying and holding has been much more profitable.

Also with POS giving the incentive to hold (just like POW gives the incentive not to fork even if you have 51%) this may actually help miners as well.  I would prefer a hybrid system, but would choose POS (for an alt coin) over POW if I had to choose.  I mean people ordered from Alpha in JAN i believe and still don't have their machines.  You could have bought BTC @ 500 in january and taken profit a few times since then.  At the end of May and around the 4th of July.  Thats 2x pop for profit.  Alpha miners haven't made anyone a dime yet.

Its all about network security, and with alts there is no loyalty to the coin, POS would change that.  Right now miners are just switching to the most profitable coin ATM.  Minting gives you more incentive to be faithful to one network.

I agree. However, since the minting on POS is green and saving money from electricity and hardware, the income from staking is quite low, which forces those who stakes, holding for the long term. You may even see some peeps hold it in computer and forget about it for a whole year... Mining in POW is a bit better in terms of income, but overall considering the electricity and external hardware cost, profit is maybe the same as POS (dont have any figure for this sorry). Hybrid may also have an advantage of balancing the expected POS pumps with the plausible POW dumps, and this is what BK wants, stabilization of the price. Best,

PS: I offered BK on Twitter, for developing a platform to stabilize the price of NAUT. This platform is going to be about an intelligent algorithm involving with the game theory and the fuzzy logic. Basically, the NSF will be managed and decided by the intelligent algorithm, when to buy and when to sell to maximally stabilizing the price for a period of time, again decided by the algorithm. You may say it is a bot, but it is not quite the same... I did NOT get any response, because he does not like me anymore:)

Hey new NAUT thread!

this thread in the last 30 minutes is already better and more informative than the last 3 months on the old one

Also after thinking about what the guy in the crowd proposes (in relation to the BGP problem), I wouldn't think it would be impossible to find a solution to that problem.  Just as if holders of BTC would decide which chain holds value, POS holders should be able to do the same thing.  Could maybe even build a voting system into the wallet.  Either way I don't think that threat is any bigger than the threat of mining to POW at this point.  You would still have to have a majority of the coin, which is less likely than mining the majority.

If something were to change, holders, just like miners could ignore the new algorithm.

checking in here

great to see a new thread and some decent discussions around naut and crypto in general

also its great to see all the old school naut's sharing and caring =)

This is the case with any POS system, PPC does the same thing essentially.  At this point there is no way around it.

Checking in

heres the link to Brian Kelly talking at Bitcoin Ceneter New York. I suggest everyone interested take a look and allow for discussion. Of note I am a little concerned of the idea of Brian Kelly acting as a sort of Fed Reserve "Central Banking" for Naut. At least that is what I gathered from it. I like how he suggests he will act in a transparent open manner almost like an honest straight forward version of a fed chairman... But still that idea does not seem ideal to me  https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=303078026567145  if you want skip to part 2 and listen around minutes 5-9 to get what I am talking about in regards to my concerns. Once again the audio is at times very low and poor quality. Regardless of your opinion this is a must watch for anyone interested in Naut

PS if you came over from the other thread please check in so we can see who's here

LOL good idea.  Thank god I got my coins out of there, I luckily withdrew my NAUT and not BTC after the shutdown of the website and I was able to save all it all.

Just a note about the OP - Probably should consider removing the Mintpal exchange link. 

Refuting BS still derails the thread so we must delete it. Good move.

I admit that I am not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to pos/pow discussion. So I will just leave this link here, was an intersting read for me:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/its-about-time-to-turn-off-pow-mining-770591

personally I cant see much going for POW. 

good decission to open this thread. The other thread was turned into a complete mess by 4 or 5 people/accounts and I didnt like the idea to completely abonding BCT.

Who knows maybe POS even benefits miners.

True, but people are more likely to try and manipulate something they have "mined" more than if they purchased it off the market.  The great thing about POS is if you want control, you have to buy my coins and everyone else that is holding them, so that will drive the price up.  I have yet to see ANYONE buy a nice stake in ANY coin and just dump it until its dead for no reason.  They would be in it for the money and pump the price, so you as a holder would also take advantage of the price increase or "pumps".

If your already paying bills on a business (mining) then you can accumulate large portions of the coin at the same price.  and dump it without having to spend the money to "pump" the price.  I want some of that capital that all the ASIC makers are stealing from everyone (or so the new would make it seem) to go into the BTC market cap. 

Also minting gives people a reason to hold their coin.  Tons of people are against holding or "hoarding" coins but it is essential if you eventually want to move away from swapping coins for USD and use them for your purchases directly.  

All I heard for months and months last year was "acceptance will increase BTC liquidation", but it hasn't.  With no incentive to hold the coin and build a base of the currency itself, merchants + miners dumping is forcing the price so low the hash rate is actually not going up.  That has never happened in the 1.5 years I have watched BTC.  POS and minting some coins give you an incentive to hold, at least for a period of time.

  

I agree on having a hybrid POW/POS model. POW can go centralized. Completely moving to POS may lead easy duplication (fake). POW protects the currency base and make it difficult to forge. POS allows interconnecting the minted blocks against forging, whilst limits the POW from allowing too much leverage on the coin. Can you elaborate on current POW flaws? or a link?

Cheers.

Yes but POW is flawed, the whole point of BTC is to be decentralized, and POW gives too much power to the miners.

It started as a great idea, but the mining farms have ruined POW, the ASIC race has squandered peoples money and made people lose faith in crypto.

I personally think we need more of a hybrid model, and I do believe BTC will go part POS, or something of that nature.  It may not be exactly POS, but something has to be done about mining simply dumping coins all over the market all the time.

Also with programs like ShapeShift, this will allow other coins to be just as widely accepted as BTC

Since, this is a new thread, I can post here.

Firstly, I am no more a holder of this coin and planning not to have any, any soon.

For the debate, POS is definitely winner against POW in terms of security, being green, no additional costs like hardware, etc...
However, BTC is the widely used coin atm and using POW, which makes POW a winner, to me unless BTC switches POS later.

Any coin with similar to Bitcoin attributes may win in the long term because POW is already widely accepted and POS may become very complicated and may introduce problems accepting such algorithm by regulation if regulation comes any time soon.

Cheers.