Topic: [neㄘcash, ᨇcash, net⚷eys, or viᖚes?] Name AnonyMint's vapor coin? - page 61. (Read 95281 times)

Nobody's controlling anything. A lot of people are telling you to change your approach in that poll. Ignore them if you like, but don't kill the messenger.

I love it when Monero folks start FUDing polls and other veiled attempts to control public opinion. Then they accuse other coins such as Dash of manipulating the investors. The kettle black.

It is probably Monero. The only objection it ever gets is from English speakers (mostly Americans I guess) who don't like that it sounds foreign, like a Taco chain or something. Other than that little bit of xenophobia, it is nearly perfect in that it evokes money in many languages and doesn't sound too geeky nor like a rip off (aka every ___coin after Bitcoin). Bitcoin isn't bad though, considered on its own.

I added i-on as a name choice to the poll. It could be considered an alternative spelling for 'ion'. I registered i-on.me ($9) and i-on.space ($2).

My thinking is that 'ion' means nothing to your average person. My gf had no clue what an 'ion' is. She said she knows 'iron'. When I explained it can be associated with electric discharge such as when you get a spark from your finger to a metal object, then she understood but still it didn't really carry much meaning for her that would cause her to associate 'ion' with anything to do with money or payments.

I asked what 'i-on' means and she said, "I on it". So I said, "you mean like you can turn on that light switch" and she said "yeah". So I asked her does that mean she is in control, and she nodded her head. I asked if she would prefer 'i-own' and she said no. I guess it doesn't sound as nice. And if you control something, then you effectively own it.

Also in decentralized money we are trying to convey the concept that the control is at the ends of the network— the End-to-end principle.

I am not sure if this is the best possible name we could think of. I may prefer i-on to ion (I-on to Ion). Make your thoughts known in the poll please. If you want to change your vote and can't then please post in the thread, so we can tabulate your change.

I continue to brainstorm for a better name.

Seriously what is the best name in crypto? Bitcoin? Nah we just got used to it.

From the results of this poll so far you are losing/alienating your audience. Stop posting polls and other shit every day and go build something.

The Sybil attack is not conflated with the definition of a "full" node in all designs. In my design there is no global voting, thus Sybil attacking by making many fake "full" nodes wouldn't be effective (but it would be in terms of the network partitioning feature). But also in my design a fake "full" node would be useless as well for other reasons. Any way, we should not continue this sort of discussion, because designs can't be analyzed piecemeal like this. Please wait for me to reach the point where I want to release a white paper or more complete description of my design, then we can discuss the details.

Yes...and, more; e.g:


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12775946

My gf asked me why 37% (10 voters) dislike me. While trying to explain my take on this, I realized I didn't directly articulate my implied response to your challenge above. You are essentially stating that my ego would alienate the community that would be needed.

The implied summary of my long retort from the prior post is that those who wish to eliminate the concept of a leader, because of their own egos, end up the losers in the market. The winners do not let their ego get in their way of evaluating the objective reality.

Thus the community of losers will fall away and the community of winners will proceed (and again I don't claim to know for a fact I will win, rather just defending my logic about my freedom to compete in a free market and why I feel this is the wisest action at this juncture). Again this might cause some readers to think "there he goes again with that huge ego", but yet they still don't see that it is their ego. I am not talking about myself, but a conceptual point about leadership (and again do not conflate leadership with authority, control, and power to manipulate/scam). But those who are blinded by their ego, will be blinded. Sorry there is nothing I can nor should do about that. I hope this is the last time I will choose to respond to allegations that my ego is the hindrance.

The other aspect of your challenge is that you are noting that so many altcoins have failed because they relied on a leader who is either failed technically, lack of sustained effort, was unwilling to give up control to the open source community, or in many cases was duping the community. Thus depending too much on any one person is very risky. Again I was not proposing to have investors put up funds with only me to be ongoing at the helm of a project. I am in a solo development phase right now because that seems to be the most efficient path from point A to point B. Once we get to point B, then we can start to try to spontaneously see a "leaderless" (a leader without control) open source team take form. I tried to build a team in July, but I quickly realized I was losing more effort to sorting out all the myriad of issues with that (very complex to organize a team when there is no project yet and the differing expectations and also to know how this culture clash with work out in advance). It is much easier to form a team after release when there doesn't need to be commitments made. People can join and leave at free will, so then there isn't all this time lost to trying to predict the future and organize against such risks when making commitments to what can't be known well in advance.

Please consider if you have any hands-on (actual) experience at all in what you are writing about. You may. I am responding with my logic.

Edit: I didn't find your post to be combative.   You may be genuinely concerned that I may fail if going alone and alienating people with my egoindividualism. If my response came across this way, it is because my response is attempting to address all those who have various reasons for finding me distasteful, not just to your statements. So I was reading between your lines, the various thoughts some of (not all of) the others may be thinking, not necessarily what you were thinking.

Oh and I got so focused in on making my points, that I forgot to thank you for your feedback. Sincerely thank you for giving me the instigation to respond and also stoking my thought process on these matters.

I assume that you are thinking that the proven number of full nodes being a metric of the decentralization strength of the network and the confidence in the network.

This is entirely proven in my design but nothing like what Sergio was proposing because his basis has no basis in my design as I exchange some concepts to their dual.

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No coin has any prayer of being massively adopted so far because none of them can even do the basic thing the crypto coin could do for the masses that credit cards can't do from the perspective of any mass adoption audience. (I am not including non-payment markets such as smart assets and programmable block chain which is another wide open space I have not entirely characterized in my mind yet)

Monero folk suggest to me to work with Monero (at very low to no pay and invest for the future in XMR) but their stated future profit model is waiting for the mass adoption which I believe is never going to come (IMO not within their leadership structure and only my opinion matters when making a decision for myself), so why I would adopt what I think will fail. Doesn't make any sense.

Bitcoin can get there with Lightning Networks and massive block size increases (because without massive headroom for massive spikes in block sizes, Lightning Networks does not work), thus mining centralization obfuscated as being decentralized using IBLT. Or instead we can adopt my design and have true decentralization along with the necessary scaling and transaction speed (as well as low TX fees).

The writing is on the wall. Bitcoin is scaling toward a spying, centralized platform controlled by large corporations and easily regulated top-down. You've got a small window of time to try to out compete that trajectory with an altcoin. You damn well better get organized, or mankind loses. This is too fucking important to trust to ideological molasses. Who ever can get it done and build the community, then do it. Enough talk.

P.S. thanks for the kind/amicable sentiments. I am not angry

Seriously and sincerely, what is currently the best name in crypto in your opinion?

Moaneuro again?

Seriously I don't hate Monero. Just a different culture than mine which I will explain below.. (and the source of angst by those who want their freedom to innovate in this altcoin space is Monero folk infecting every discussion with veiled FUD designed to essentially say that "open source will defeat you, we are more honest, more open, more fairly launched, more rational, and have more resources").


Sell it to whom? Who would even pay more than a few $1000s at most for any idea. I am already offering to share my anonymity whitepaper and receive some funds and work together on that (and in general on my block chain scaling tech in terms of potentially integrating with other group if that proves to be the most viable direction when I get close to release or after release, but I am not counting on that as the only option, I need to also be capable of moving my own destiny forward with my own actions).

There are a lack of developers who have proven they can do anything significant in this market in terms of user adoption. Dogecoin is perhaps the exception, except it appears to have lost momentum. By far in terms of raising money from investors, it appears the SuperNet and Ethereum are the most successful.

Do you know of any team that has succeeded in market adoption? Afaics, they have all failed thus far.

So I am just wondering who are these established teams who I should stand in awe of considering I have proven in the past that I could develop a product (CoolPage) all by myself in a Nipa Hut in the Philippines (Oct 1998) and go from not having enough money to buy meat to 3 months later earning $10,000 a month (inflation-adjusted) and within 2 - 3 years I had (verified by altavista) 335,000 user created websites with my drag+drop web page editor software back when the internet (2001) was 1/10 the population that it is now. Considering I was 90% blinded in my right eye in front of a disco in the Philippines on Dec. 1, 1999 and was in eye surgeries and had to lay face down in the bed for months (gas in my eye to keep 50% remaining portion of the fully detached retina in place after being laser riveted to back of my eye). So considering all the momentum I lost at age 34, my project didn't meet its potential trajectory due to being disrupted. There were investors offering to buy me out for $1.2 million in stock options around that time (so roughly $5 million inflation-adjusted), but I took a $205,000 cash ($600,000 inflation-adjusted) non-exclusive deal instead because of my knowledge of inflated CPM ad rates (due to doing the marketing for CoolPage) indicated me a dot.com crash was imminent.

So I have demonstrated I can create and market (I did all the marketing for CoolPage, including managing all the art production interactively with a filipino graphic artist and the CoolPage surfer dude is a rendition of my younger self!) products with wide user adoption. Do you know if any of the other developers in crypto have done this? I heard Gmaxwell talk about he created an open source codec, thus he is a very smart engineer but perhaps not a polymath in marketing, engineering, economics, law, etc. (which I feel I have demonstrated, have you read my essays linked from the opening post of the Economic Devastation thread). I read Adam Back had a not so successful venture before the current one he is in. Vitalik is a very young man and Ethereum is his first gig. Fluffypony? I don't know his background, do you?

Maybe your point is that only an established team has the resources to bring such as project to fruition with optimum insights and work through all the bugs and issues. First of all, there are other developers that have expressed some interest to work with me, such as some developer that worked with Ciyam. Back in the day when I used to debate with bytemaster (Daniel Latimer of Bitshares) on these forums, Ciyam and I used to exchange some thoughts about for example programming languages. So it is not outside the realm of possibility for one or more of these developers to come work with me once they see something at testnet that is worthwhile. Also I do talk with smooth a lot in private, so it is not outside the realm of possibility of throwing my product towards Aeon or vice versa, if ever it makes sense for both of us. But for now, he is positioned I think to be more of an experimentation bed for things that can improve or be adopted by Monero. And smooth and I although we respect each other, we have also sort of difference in attitude about open source.

Here is what I believe. If I had to go innovate within Monero, then everything would take 10 times longer to do. Because I would have to convince everyone of each of the details of my design before I do them. And design is an iterative process. The design changes as one implements and discovers issues. So for me to go into Monero and rip out their entire core code and replace it, is silly. It is much more efficient to create my own codebase, and then after proving something, then decide how to maximize its forward trajectory. And I can tell you most likely that will mean the community decides to send resources to the one who demonstrated that he has the talent to innovate and drive the direction of crypto. Capital migrates to those who lead effectively. This is a fact of life. But I am also open to any opportunities that arise which make the most sense. But innovating inside of Monero makes absolutely no sense. For one thing, they can't pay me anything. Second the market cap is already $4 million and they have nothing yet in the adoption market (other than users who think a large team is indicative of success but rather I assert it is innovation that drives the paradigm shifts that drives success and this is why leaderless open source is not the correct paradigm for innovation, rather open source is the optimum refinement paradigm after the main epiphanies on innovation have been sorted out by innovators). And third I may not fit culturally with Monero because as what I understand from smooth (and this may not reflect all the views of all Monero devs) is that basically they think open source wins in the end and they are interested in $100M to $billions market cap when crypto is widely adopted, thus they don't care about near-term models for income or remuneration. They are volunteering their time for the fun of it and the remote chance of it going big time. They are doing it for the technical excitement and the love of the process of open source and the business model to build product and services off of the main Inverse Commons. While I do believe open source is essential once your crypto project has passed the first innovation stage and needs to gain reliability and trust, I think that attitude by Monero is why they won't be able to innovate fast enough. I beat their cryptographer by two months on completing the Cryptonote + Compact Transactions integration design (my white paper was entirely finished in mid-July), my design is in theory perhaps 850% more compact,  and I am not even a part-time mathematician. Now what about other things such as separation-of-concerns, which is my area of expertise. You think they will beat me to innovation on that?

I am glad so many people doubt me. That means a smaller market cap at launch for those investors who don't doubt me. Which means higher potential gains for them.

The ONLY issue is my health. If my health hadn't been so fucked up over the past 3 years, I would have long ago released a coin (anonymously in 2014). But in hindsight I am very glad I didn't release a coin in 19942014. My understanding of the tech has radically improved since then. And so far since I been doing this new therapy of antibiotics, alpha lipoic acid, and n-acetyl cysteine, my relapses are very mild (a few hours of slight headache but I can continue working through it, not bed ridden) and I've been sleeping much more (whereas I was insomniac before this change in therapy). I haven't had time yet to address the other suggestions on my health, nor to get any additional lab work done. I been balls out on my work these past 18 days or so.

The likelihood that one man could go from nothing to testbed with a codecbase written from scratch in only months is insane. Not to mention a sick man, who is blind in one eye, and not as young as he was when he did his insane coding performances (you know sleeping under the desk).

But I am not asking for your money or trust before I prove something. And I LOVE A CHALLENGE.

Last night I was at the disco for the first time in several months. I am 50, but I guarantee you amongst all those very young filipinos, none of them had any idea I might be older than 30s. My gf got tired before I did on the dance floor. I did get a slight headache relapse later in the night, but I have been able to work through these lately which is positive sign for me. I am not as coherent during those episodes but I did write this while under that headache last night.

I can't yet quantify how much my mental facilities are degraded or suffer from my health saga (which I cringe every time I mention it publicly because it so fucking narcissistic, I'd much rather be strong and just make action than make excuses because of fucking health!). I know for example while I was at the disco I felt no ill health and so I was able to design in my head while partying. I made the epiphany while at the disco that Lightning Networks would better integrate with my design than Bitcoin itself. But I do know that the brain fog has destroyed innumerable man-hours and probably also caused me to incur lapses in mental acuity. I am just hoping my condition will continue to improve on the current therapy. We will just see how it goes.


Maybe, but we can determine that once I get to testnet (if I do). First of all, I don't see anyone else working on my design. I have analyzed all the other efforts I am aware of. Secondly, joining with others won't make the implementation of my design go faster (The Mythical Man Month). Every time I am writing on these forums, I am not programming, so that is always a negative unless I am writing something very important to my research or to the market of all of you.


Indeed. But I have done it in the past, albeit not on distributed networking which is a much more difficult nut to crack.


But I am not proposing to go solo. I am proposing to get something demonstrated in code and testnet, and then partner up in an open source model forward while launching and refining.


Before I answer your concern from the positive viewpoint of how to accomplish it, I first want to address this quoted bolded cultural meme which I think is the source of must angst or disillusionment manifested against me as what I posit to be a Freudian attempt to slay one of the demons who is in conflict with the open source religion. Reality check. I am not an egotistical demon going against the grain of open source. Rather some of you guys (and maybe not you, but I am directing this comment to a meme even if you don't hold it) have been deluded by religion and lost your bearing (which is what often happens in the delusion of religions).

Innovation occurs with the individual. Open source is the way of sharing an Inverse Commons in order to maximize the resources that can be applied to solve a common need.

So how to mesh these two?

If you try to innovate by committee, you get Mythical Man Months.

So the optimum way to innovate (and I am referring to major paradigm shifts that entail entire overhauls, not to refinement innovation which of course open source excels because "every bug is shallow because there are so many eyeballs") is to go off on your own and create some code. After your code is demonstrated a bit, then you open the source and others start helping you and joining in the common need to refine it.

Normally one would keep their code entirely open from the start, as there is no need to worry about competition if the only goal is to attain the common result with no direct profit from the common result. Profit would come from indirect business models such as selling services built around the Inverse Commons open source.

But in this crypto market, you have to gain momentum in order to rise out above the crowd and gain the inertia to where the open source model can take over and the product won't just be mired in the soup of copycoins which is for example Monero's predicament.

And the person who innovated may want to be sure he has been paid something for his Herculean effort, because no one is motivated to go do this Herculean innovations otherwise. And they don't normally occur by committee either, because of the need to have absolute focus on the iterative process of flexible design. And because the open source process can't guarantee that innovator any income so why should he do much more than any other contributor. Open source demotivates extreme effort except where it is subsidized by the innovator's employer, so it is not always the correct model when you need extreme divergence of innovation. The risk taker must be rewarded for his risk of not playing it safe in open source soup, otherwise risk takers will go else where where they can get paid for the risk they took of not staying in the open source soup.

Also if you have an innovator who able to demonstrate his exceptional leadership, then even with open source you want to have him vested in that project, whether it be only his reputation boost (e.g. Linus Torvalds or Guido from Python) and/or actual small % of the coin supply (which a wise benevolent dictator for life will be donating to others and otherwise diluting to bring in strong contributors to the project).

So what you guys perceive to be ego, is actually my demand for capitalism and not socialism. I wish to have the free market to demonstrate my ability to take on risk and be rewarded for it, by driving the start of a new open source project. Open source religious fanatics misapply the "do not stick your head above the poppy tops" (Chinese culture) desire for open source to ameliorate the importance of individual greatness,  because all B-listers and betamales want the concept of the alphamale to be destroyed. But I am sorry to tell you that without alphamales, you do not win. Period. That is a fact of life.

(To relieve some of ego fit reactions this causes in readers sometimes, I want you to know I am not claiming to be an alphamale. Nor am I claiming that alphamales are inherently better than any other person, because it takes a lot of hard work, desire, and determination to be an expert leader in a field. It comes from sweat, blood, and tears. If you personally aren't willing to make that sacrifice, then please don't be jealous or feel inferior to the person who decided to make that sacrifice. It is a choice and everyone can choose their role in life. Life has room for everyone. We can all appreciate each other.)

So it is not about ego for me. It is about ego for you. Please read this following essay by the man who created "open source" Eric S. Raymond:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1404


The community will because I (and the community) will strive to create such momentum that it will be clear that any other community attempting to copy will always be several steps behind.

The community includes me and my leaderless voice. Linux is leaderless in the sense that the Git repositories are decentralized and any one can create their own patched version of Linux. But Linus still drives many of the key design decisions because he is respected for his technical correctness and organizational astuteness/efficiency. That doesn't mean he is in control, but if you had lost him early in Linux's development process, Linux would not be where it is today. Period.


Precisely. One of those is the community valuing "leaderless" (no managerial control) leadership.

That means no authority is in control, as by definition leaders lead by being correct and free will, not by top-down force.

You're underestimating the importance of proving a full nodes' existence.

The utility of money is built around confidence. Almost everything else that drives adoption revolves around features and ease of use.

Interesting post.

The community infrastructure will happen under the right conditions.

I agree with with that. I believe that you are quite capable to create a superb tech. But it's the huge long term project as a whole and to get wide success you will need to attract the community. It's not so easy, time and effort consuming. Better technology itself these days is not the guarantee of the mass adoption. The future is unpredictable and everything can change when your tech is ready.

But if you are ready to go anyway I sincerely wish you good luck.

I voted for "none of these".

To be honest I think you're making a strategic mistake by trying to launch your own coin rather than sell your concept, or join an upcoming or established team.

By the time you're good to go, the market will already be saturated with similar tech, and you'll be mostly forgotten. Sad but true.

It's tough work going solo.

Who's going to front the campaign? Who will host and pay for the website? Who will design the subreddit and moderate it? What are you planning for the forum? What about the logo, who will pay for that?

If the answer to these questions is "the community" then why would the community get involved, particularly as you are an "ego-project" which is demonstrably a risky investment?

ClickCash!

ionpay != ion

centralized payment != decentralized token system

That product is in Indonesia only. They do not likely assert a global trademark.

Open source names really can't be stopped with trademark enforcement.

http://ionpay.net/

trademark issues

I have added a new name choice, which I think is perhaps competitive to 'ion'.

val

Shorthand for value. How much more direct to the point could it possibly be. Please pay me 5 vals.

The attraction to this name is that it is more clearly quantity of something and it is unique from other coins. But it doesn't connote definitively that is a monetary value, and Val might sound like a person's name (Hal Finney) and rhymes with gal.

Sergio is refining my proof-of-storage concept from 2013. But I don't think proving you are full node is important in my design. Everyone seems to view this as important for eliminating the centralization of pools, but there are no pools in my design because in my design proof-of-work is not profitable (but it is economic). I am going to reveal the unperceived dualism in some of the concepts of crypto-currency.


Ah yes I had forgotten that was one of the reason I had stated I liked it, "i-on" or "i-own", meaning for "i' control the switch. I think that point was in my other thread (or maybe it was a private Bitmessage). My memory of the past weeks and months is a fog.

I'd be interested to see if you can solve an issue that people underestimate as needing resolution: how to prove full node is actually a full node.

Along the lines of :

https://bitslog.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/proof-of-unique-blockchain-storage-revised/

Name:

ION works great as a name.

Perhaps with a clarification to the average consumer:  ION: Self-banking made easy