Topic: Need 1000 BTC. 100% guarantee for lender (Read 5731 times)

This is then equivalent to a futures contract, right? Parties agree at making a transaction in 6 months at 5.11usd/btc.

25 btc is way too low, good luck finding your counterpart.

Theymos kindly agreed. Now I need to find counterparty

Another side will agree having 1000 BTC in x month from now...

( (1000BTC now) USD - ( 1000 BTC in x month from now) USD) / ( BTC price in future)

Nope, only if price of btc goes up, if down you will own him some.

OK.

If btc price goes down we get 1025 btc back and you get some from value difference.

If btc price goes up we get 1025 btc bad and you have to pay some due to value difference.

How in earth are you going to earn anything if we hold btc in escrow?

Edit: Ah, you are not asking for a loan, you are asking for a CFD. Forget my questions

Edit2: I still don't get it. Since first post says 100% guaranteed, we get 1025 btc back no matter what happens?

PV = Present Value
FV = Future Value
B/E = Break Even
USD = US Dollar
BTC = Bitcoin

US = United States

BTC_Bear, I'm really lost with what you trying to convey here...


As I can see, you are not interested in this deal so let's stay friends....

If you have other offer, please let me know, BUT make it in plain English without any abbreviations, because I don't know all of them

Almost all of my proposals will include me getting the interest off of the 100 BTC for the year from the 'accepted' escrow. The others would introduce a shared risk between us that brings it closer to a 50/50 bet. As in, I would structure the 100 BTC to be escrowed so it couldn't earn any interest from the escrow agent. I would pay you the 10 BTC upfront, BUT an early withdrawal would require you to pay a 12 BTC penalty OR I'll pay you 10 BTC at the end and an early withdrawal will cost you 2 BTC. This structure puts a lot of work on the Escrow agent for a 'Year'. If he can't use the BTC to earn something he would want to have a fee, I would assume, the fee would be for you to pay.

This is a lot of work for an all involved. It would be easier if you built up enough trust and reputation to just do the deal without escrow.

I'm leery of Multi-Sig transactions. I understand why they were introduced but the unintended consequences will, imo, out weigh the benefits. BTC will be held ransom, it will increase the attrition rate of BTC, and it introduces a level of complexity that many won't want to deal with. It is hard enough to get people to understand bitcoins without adding a "but, if, and when" to a transaction.

A little calculations of a conservative nature:

      Escrowed:         100 BTC
%/year at 2%:         104 BTC
# Wks til B/E:          5 Weeks to get back my 10 BTC

So after 5 Weeks of me earning interest, I wouldn't really care what happens everything else is icing.

Escrowed:  100 BTC (Structured so No Interest can be earned)
       PV $: 5 USD (example)
       FV $: 6 USD (20 % increase in the value of 100 BTC being held in escrow)
  Penalty:  2 BTC (It would behoove you to agree to break the deal and cash out the 100 BTC)
       FV$: 4 USD ( Hurting you as to the contract, but time is on my side )

Really as structured, the only way that is a possible benefit for you is BTC to decrease but with in the PV$ of the 10 BTC or less. Of course, you could not want to cancel the deal on an increase and that would hurt both of us (but you more).

BUT as far as me giving you 10 BTC and crossing my fingers for a "YEAR", no thanks...

CDF's do have a place in BTC though, so the attempted use of them is interesting. The pricing of them will have to be closely calculated.

wait wait wait.... too many letters.... can you put YOUR terms in compact contract-like form and I will evaluate it.

PS. Kudos goes to piuk, as he can arrange multi signature transactions soon inside https://blockchain.info/wallet

Well the 'Leverage' is actually against you. Under the terms, of a locked in 100 BTC to an address that doesn't move and to an 'accepted' escrow, lets look at the last few days. BTC went up 10%, since I won't pay the 10 in this scenario until the end of contract. It would be wise for you to come to an agreement to take back the 100 BTC to take the 10% profit, pay me the 2 BTC penalty, and still profit 8%.
Another method of using the 'CD' is I have a savings put a side in cold storage. I could keep that at the same level, take out 100 BTC, invest 100 BTC, etc... BUT the key to this method is that the BTC stays in an address in the blockchain and doesn't move so it can be referenced. If it moves, you pay a penalty (2 BTC) for early withdrawal. And I pay the 10 BTC at the end not up front.
Rather than make this foolish gamble.

The escrow really has the power here. Without assurances, he would just deposit with another and collect interest. Bredio is himself a lender, he would make interest. If he agrees that the interest he earns from 'holding' the BTC will go to me, then I will do the same as with Hash King.

Or you could just trust me, give me 90 BTC, and I'll pay you back 110 BTC in a year minus any negative difference.

But what I really want to show for anyone that takes you up on this, it that the money being held in escrow 'for a year' will probably be used to make money by whomever holds it and that needs to be added into your calculations.

Not to mention, Escrows usually deal in fairly short term deals, having them pay attention for a year is asking a little from them. They should charge a fee.

Multi-sigs have not been fully worked out and into the 'official' client, there would be a risk, possibly more to the escrow.

Or another way of stating your proposal: Just give me 90 BTC ( take the 10 BTC upfront ) and at the end of a 'YEAR', I'll give you 110 BTC minus any negative difference. I'll make any interest off of the amount, plus if at the end I'll get any negative difference to boost my interest earnings to date.


You seem to be trying to trick(maybe not intentionally) people with a Contract for Difference. There is nothing wrong with a Contract for Difference and you trying to use one, just let everybody know 'all' that will probably be done with the BTC.

May I suggest you just skip the 100 BTC escrow and just ask for an agreement and collect the 10 BTC upfront. Why make a CFD harder than it needs to be. The key would be to build up enough trust and reputation so that people will believe you will follow through on a contract and if you don't you have something to loose (i.e. Trust and Reputation )

Oh, because the idea here is to collect the difference in the value of BTC under a CFD, you could just deal in the traditional fiat and avoid the intermediary security. It would save some effort and expense. e.g. ( $50 upfront, $500 to pay the negative difference at the end of a year )
This method has merit to avoid any mention of BTC in transfers and their underlying reasons for the transfer. i.e. No need to mention Bitcoin in PP transfers, dwolla, etc....


BTW: Why not ask for 2000 Escrowed for the year? That way the Escrow can open a Pirate account and get 7%/week. After he gets his initial payment to you plus a little extra he can re-secure the funds and smile for the 'YEAR'.


Something tells me you know this already though.

FRB is alive an well in Bitcoins although this time it is unregulated and free market driven.

I need to try doing multi signature transaction ... it's still beta version

Ok, I agree that brendio will be co-signatory for 2-of-3 transaction... BTC_Bear, what about you?

I'll toss my hat in the ring to be the escrow of a multisig transaction. If I understand them correctly, if after the term is complete, you both agree on where the funds should go, you can both sign the transaction and the escrow doesn't need to do a thing. Otherwise the escrow decides for one of the parties and signs their transaction. There is no way the escrow can run off with the funds without colluding with one of the parties.

And why is Gavin going to want to mess with this?  I'm sure he has more pressing things to do with his time and resources.

I have doubts you will achieve this...

For example, Gavin accepts to be escrow... I transfer him money and this money he must return one year from now...

I don't know what "leverage" is for you but I doubt it can be applied if he will have the slightest doubt about this money not being returned.

Exactly and I welcome MORE Ignores if the opportunity arises.

Face it, you wouldn't be offering to do this....this 'favor' for someone if you didn't already know that you are getting the better end of the deal while masking the rest in bullshit....and trying to make it look 'clever'.

Good luck with your 'money making' schemes.

Now I know why you have so much ignores

I don't get it...OBVIOUSLY the price is going to increase with block reward halving.

This is all win for you (10 BTC today) and NO gain for the other guy.

Like I said, you are trying to prove how smart you are, that is all. It's a complete WASTE of 10 BTC for the other party involved.

At 2% per week from HK, I wouldn't care by then. If I get paid anything from the difference at the end of the year, it would just be icing on the cake.

My other method of locking the BTC into an address and a penalty to be paid if moved, is like a CD except I could only use the CD value to leverage and not spend (however in that case, I would pay the 10 btc at the end, not up front).

In either case, I need to have some value to the 100 BTC.

I sent some messages  - will see who will show up...

Let's continue tomorrow - it's 2 a.m here...