Topic: [need DT] using multiple account, trading merit, self-talking, trading trust (Read 2588 times)

I really appreciate it, thank you Mikeywith.

I tried to send a PM to @Marlboroza asking for reconsideration but



So I will quote it here.

Thank you very much, means a lot to me and I have no hard fillings. I understand your altitude during this case fully.

Of course, I will avoid meriting Crypto mania in the future and ask him for this same.


One has already done this, you are the second DT1 who removed the negative trust from my account. Thanks again.

Please tell me which rules are you talking about?

Now I understand what you mean and why you ask about this.

This will take a second to explain. So I will now write this full story because this is a 1,5 year time involved and to understand this I need as before tell the full story about this guide and translations. I have to make screens, etc, so it will take a while.

I will update this post when ready, thank you.

---

This guide was written by me in 2018 (I don't know the exact date) in Polish on AltcoinsTalks forum. That was a short list with only a few first points. I advised Crypto mania to translate this to English language and publish here on Bitcointalk. I am not 100% sure now because Crypto mania has changed annotations with links in the footer of his post during the time and I would like that he explains that by himself, but I assume, that the first one was just a description: "this is a translation from another forum" because one can not add links to other forums (or I messed something up here). Is a long time back and now to remember all these interactions is really hard. Ok back to the topic.

Crypto mania added a few additional points from internet sources and posted this guide here on Bitcointalk. Discussion started and the list began to grow. At that time, I translated this extended guide again into Polish and published in our local section. In both topics, different answers were added and both lists began to grow separately from this moment. So we joined forces after some time and added all new points from each list to built really good guides in two different languages and forum sections. I think this is very good for the forum to have such high-quality content translated to a few languages for local sections (not native English speakers).

After I published my translation, from what I see, Crypto mania changed the link in the description, from the written one: "this post is a translation from another forum" to "@wwzsocki the author of the main version has published lately this post in polish language" and added link to my guide. Additionally, I added that this is my original work from other forum and link to Crypto mania translation in my guide too. Like I already said a couple of years ago I was a very bad poster and got problems because of wrong quotations. From this moment I learned my lesson and am very strict and exact with all quotations and added sources in descriptions.

I was not able to find the original post on AtlcoinsTalks because is a small forum and there were no answers in this thread. I assume was closed and deleted after so much time, which is common there.

Here screens with texts and links in descriptions of these posts and link to my profile on AltcoinsTalks, where I am a moderator and the only Judge (for irony).





https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2563

Sorry, I don't know what you mean? Told you already before. Please be more specific.

From the start, I am fully honest and specific with you and I ask you for this same.

If you ask some questions please be specific, I don't understand your mind shortcuts. Additionally, multiple times when you quoted my posts you chose only the worst sentences.
Please, be honest, like me and if you quote some examples, quotes or show evidence, do it properly and show how it really looks like and not with cut out of context sentences because this doesn't reflect the truth at all.

If this is a trial then it should be honest from both sides. Or maybe this is something different?


Thank you @DireWolf, this means a lot to me.

I haven't found it. I have heard so many times this statement on the forum that I took it as a fact and never checked properly, my mistake.

When I was searching for the link I found this case. Where the user got his reputation back.

Maybe these case is not exactly the same (there were a lot more accounts involved) but I think that looks like a precedent in my case.

Here quote from the last post.


If this is the case I will never send any more merits to Crypto mania and ask him for this same.

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I have already learned a lesson from my case and this one quoted above, that sending merits to friends or relatives is not well seen on this forum.

As you all know, I wasn't aware of that. Because of this case, I am from 3 days constantly searching and reading meta and reputation threads (just read all Theymos posts from the last year when I was searching for the quote) and I found, that actually this subject is discussed on the forum and different high rank and DT1 members have a different point of view in this discussion.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51254725

As I said, I have never merited any bad posts of Crypto mania, waited 3 months to give him the first merit and asked to not sent merits to me.
Just as described in this post I tried to be a good teacher.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51253982

But now, I know, that I will have to be more strictly or even to avoid at all awarding my friend.

I already get a harsh punishment because I spent the last 3 days defending myself, browsing through the whole forum, post history of many users, sharing private information and I was relegated from one of the best signature campaigns on this forum. And we all know how hard is to get a spot in such campaign. Not to mention my stressed nerves and sleepless nights.

Completely destroying my account, for appreciating my friend's posts (which are meritable anyway) is a bit too much in my opinion. Therefore, please change the trust to neutral.
Let everyone evaluate themselves reading my trust annotations.

Especially if I did not do it for the purposes of bringing me any goodies, because as I have already mentioned, I never cared about my own rank, and 36 Merits that I got back, I do without cheating and without a problem in a few days.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50588137

Please do not just look at my mistakes, but also take into account my achievements and how many years I am here on Bitcointalk. And also that I have been for some time in the 200 most merited users. In addition, I work a lot in the Polish community and from the last few months, our local section from the last places in the rankings has moved high forward. I have many reports on my account with 100% accuracy. I spent multiple hours chasing spam, scam, and abuse on this forum. But I never wanted to be famous about this and even if I found plagiarism or a bot farm I have used the report button with proper description and all links. I started the most recognized thread on Polish board in the last 2 years which gives the fuel for this section to grow. Czemu nie nagradzamy sie Meritami?
Bitcointalk was the first forum I have ever registered when I was already in mid-age. From a total shitposter, I evaluated to one of 200 most merited members. Of course, you will find a few mistakes in such a long history (especially when I am not hiding anything) but like I already said, please don't look only at them.


I am kindly asking administrators of this forum for help in solving this matter. These two accounts were always operated from different computers so mac addresses should be different in each session. Additionally, there is no problem with other checks like KYC.

I don't understand, can you please be more specific?

I can get 27 merits in 3 days, do you think I would spend one and a half year creating an alt account to get 36?  

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50588137

If I had in mind fast ranking up, why would I wait so long to merit myself (3 months)?

I had 25 merits when the system was introduced and I was still a senior member after 4,5 years, so I even never rushed to rank my own account.

Do you really think that after 6 years on the forum I would register an alt account just to give myself 36 merits?

I have seen members registered in 2017/2018 with hero rank already. This is fast ranking up and not 6 years to hero, which I get last month.

If I want to rank up faster and get more merits I will publish one of 30 threads which I stared during this year. Additionally, I have told you multiple times and showed screens that I asked Crypto mania to not send merits to me but after Theymos posted that one can merit any post he wishes I just stopped to think about this.

I merited Crypto mania after 3 months of posting with my first merit. If I had in mind fast ranking up, why would I wait so long? I had 25 merits when the system was introduced.
Already showed proof:



I can get 27 merits in 3 days, do you think I would spend one and a half year creating an alt account to get 36?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50588137

---

This is very common on the forum to give merits for translations.

I personally got a lot of merits because of translations to the Polish or English languages from most recognized merit sources on the forum and authors of original posts. I have seen multiple times, as members merit their translations and original posts, each to other. First, to say thanks for a great guide or tutorial to the author, and second for the translation (which cost a lot of work) to the translator.

Additionally, you have to read the hall thread and all posts to understand why I merited them. Single, out-of-context posts, do not reflect the full truth.

If you wish I can show tomorrow morning CET multiple examples of merited translations because is little lait and I am going to sleep now.

If this is the case I would be very happy to disclose our personal information and explain exactly our relations to administrators of this forum.

I have already sent PM to administrators asking for help.

No of course not.

He registered to the first campaign after some time. I don't know a month or two. Crypto mania knew that I have multiple [email protected] addresses. So he asks me to use one, to sign up, because you don't use your first email for bounty and why to create a new one, if I have plenty of them? He even not asked which one only used this and as you know I have [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], 4,5,6,7 ofertyww8gmail.com and many more. Just sent me an email and I will respond.

My friend asked me to use one of the many emails I have. I really had nothing against and agreed without second of thinking.

This is not against rules to use the same email, eth address, and social media accounts. Of course, if you abuse the rules this can be used as evidence but we haven't do anything wrong.

Because some account farmers used the same addresses and emails does not mean that two friends or a family can not share them.

Of course not, when the merit system was introduced ranking up fast were not possible anymore. I have never rushed to rank up with my own account I was still a senior member when the merit system was introduced after 4 years on the forum.

There are no withdrawals from this ETH wallet which I handed over and almost no transactions. Crypto mania never uses this wallet. Additionally, I have stated already that I can share the keys to this wallet and password to the email address with everybody. Just sent a PM, please.

I am not living in Poland.

I have explained in details email accusation in this thread already. Please be so kind and read the full thread.

Just come to my mind that Crypto mania account was registered after merit system was introduced and bounties were at the end with profitability.

I am here from 6 years frequently and from last 2,5 almost every day.

If I want to create an alt why so late? When there was no way to rank up fast?

I even never rushed to rank up with my own account. I was still a senior member after the merit system was introduced after four years here.

Even if I would create an alt don't you think that after so many years here and so much experience I would use the same email, eth address, social media accounts, signature and talk about this on the forum for the last two years?

It does not stick

Please try for one second to consider that I am indeed telling the truth.

No, it's not my ETH wallet.

Will you not agree with me that there is no way to register an account for a friend or family and that I have done everything possible to announce that we know each other and are related?

And that this is an anonymous forum and I did not have to do it, and that some account farmers used the same addresses and emails does not mean that two friends or a family can not share them because we have not violated any rules or bounty nor forum, and merits can be given freely and I have awarded equal amounts to other members?

To prove my words that we have done all we can to inform the forum that we are closely connected, know each other and invest in a few projects together.

I made screens of a few posts in which we are stating that we know each other and our trust annotations.













I was accused of merit abuse here is proof that I asked Crypto mania to not sent me any merit long time ago but after Theymos posted that there is no red paint or other penalties for merits, and anybody can give merits to any post he wants, I stopped to care about this. Additionally, I merited Crypto mania with the first merit after 3 months for this post screened above where he is telling this on the forum that he didn't get any merit for 100 days. I was a senior member when the merit system was introduced. I had, I think 50 merits. If I abused the system why haven't I merited him a lot sooner with more merits? Because I didn't like his posts and found them little spammy. That's why. That was his first post I found short but really good and you can see my influence on him. I told him to not spam and go help people and don't lie on the forum and about the 133 rule to rank pretty fast.





I have told that I was in Masternodecoin and Crypto mania invested because of me. Here is another prove when he is talking about this on the forum a long time ago.



And that all this is only Crypto Mania posts there are also mine but I will add them little later.

From 1,5 year we are constantly telling that we know each other and are connected and Crypto mania account is registered a few months earlier. Later even added this in our trust annotations to be sure there is no doubt we know each other. So I can't understand these accusations now that we are connected. Yes, we are but this is not my alt account.

Two to be exact.


I tried to be fully honest with you.


Thank you. I can only hope that after some time you will adjust this trust rating accordingly when I stop to merit my friend.

It usually happens when someone sends me few messages and I tell them "don't spam my inbox", which usually means - don't spam my inbox.

Just for the record, I think you are alt accounts. There is possibility that you are not(based on your words) but very likely you are(based on proofs). I choose to listen community and members who expressed their opinions(directly or indirectly) about this case and will neutralize -ve. PM unblocked, I am out of this thread.

I have read almost every thing on this thread, despite the evidence (which don't confirm OP's claim 100%), I still tend to believe that wwzsocki is telling the truth, I would certainly not bet my house on that, but as long as there is a good possibility of his innocence, and given that wwzsocki is a decent fourm member  and I would say that decent members here are probably only tens or couple hundreds at most , it doesn't make sense to tag him for this , especially that this doesn't involve scam or even an attempt of scam.

I hope @marlboroza will give wwzsocki the benefit of the doubt and not judge a decent a member the way he would judge a regular spammer or scammer.

What narrative?  You've had no involvement in this thread until you replied with this post which off topic and trolling bones261, Darkstar_, and LoyceV.

And now you're trolling me, so this will be the last reply I'll make on this subject.


Good idea.  Here, let me help you out and we'll get the whole exchange in the archive.

http://archive.fo/1ePGT#selection-36691.0-36691.48

Eh? Pardon? bones261 made a statement in post 4 and I asked for clarification of his statement - nothing more.  The reaction I got was about what I expected.  Interesting narrative you are trying to weave.

We don't have to be baby seated at every given opportunity. Not all rules are written to give room for diversity. The beauty of @wwzsocki case is the way both him and the DT members have handled it and it should be applauded. He has proven himself to be a reasonable human unlike other past cases were the accused uses the opportunity to attack the trust (DT) system. Kudos to all parties involved.

I want to thank those two DT1 members for removing the trust rating.

I will stop meriting @wwzsocki at all.

That's not nitpicking, it's a valid point.  It's obvious to me (and probably most) the merit system is intended to reward folks for contributing to the forum and making it a better place for all.  

Merit shouldn't be used to reward yourself, or help your friends rank up.  And I think those who are blatantly misusing it should be tagged.  I'm just not convinced that's the case in this particular situation.  

I know it's nitpicking but this (emphasis mine) is what I would consider a "rule" against meriting alts, along with the obvious ethical concerns:


It's true though that there is no enforcement of that by forum staff, so it's a gray area left to DT to handle.

Likely we are going off topic

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That was point why I have tagged him. A well reputed user should not trade merit with his friend even they are not alt. Of course as a forum member we could send merit anybody if there is quality post even poster is friend or not. But they did extremely too much, judge yourself. Usually I didn't tagged merit abuser but this case drew my attention. If you use admin reference then yes, he deserve tag. They just not send to one but they trade merit each other and I don't think that theymos will encourage such as merit trade.

By the way, I just tag him for lesson. My intention wasn't not to destroy his account. I am saying again, "an well reputed member should not trade merit with his friend" Just send merit on quality post either your friend or not. It doesn't mean all of post your friend's is high quality and others all post is low quality.

@wwzsocki you should know how you have to handle your friend,  theymos didn't encourage to trade merit with your friend.


I am reconsidering to remove your feedback, hope you have lear lot from here. I don't know about other DT's they will remove or not.

Guys, please don't allow Timelord2067 to derail this thread with his trolling.  wwzsocki deserves the effort of staying on point. 

This never happened.

Do I dare ask for a link with context? Just a guess: this one? If you trust someone, you can include him on your Trust list, and if I want to see the same trust scores from LoyceMobile, I'd have to add the same users to that trust list too.
The only possible conflict lies within the voting for DT. (I use my Mobile to see trust from DT2 instead of my personal trust list.)

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---

You're right, I'll end this now. Somehow I was summoned on page 5 with claims based on misunderstandings which I thought were cleared 3 months ago.

Yes, you are right, but that doesn't mean I haven't considered the facts.  I see a lot of facts that add up to a lot of circumstantial evidence.  It's all very suspicious.  Even if wwzsocki is telling the truth and crypto mania is his friend, there has obviously been an excessive amount of merit cycled between the two accounts.  That's an issue, but is it a red trust issue?  Once again I'll bring up that theymos isn't concerned about merit abuse, because of the decaying nature of sMerit.  There's only so much those two accounts can cycle, and at some point it will be completely depleted.

It's also worth considering the accounts and their behavior; are they beneficial to the forum?  I think the answer is yes, and you are entitled to disagree.  This shouldn't be something that influences whether they get red trust or not, but it does add to the circumstantial evidence supporting wwzsocki's claim.  His pattern of behavior does suggest that he may be telling the truth.

For the next point I want to make make I'll bring the famous tag line from the OJ Simpson trial: "If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit."  Does the evidence presented prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that wwzsocki and Crypto Mania are alts?  You may argue that this is a bad example (because we all know OJ is guilty,) I would argue that it's the best example.  The systems are only as good as the people implementing them, and people are flawed.  So, the system is bound to be flawed.  But if the system's flaws are biased towards the presumption of innocence, then they are flawed in the right direction, in my opinion.  

The trust system is decentralized, meaning you are welcome to tag the two account for any reason you choose.  I'm not asking any one to remove their tags, just consider your justification for doing so carefully.



That's thing, there are no official rules for trading merit with your alts (or friends,) yet there are a few activities that don't violate the rules but are sure to earn you a red-tag.  That's the issue with a decentralized trust system, it's bound to have flaws.  As a community we should work together to mitigate those flaws.



I beg to differ.  I think I've made my argument base on reason.  I have never crossed paths with wwzsocki or Crypto Mania, and I have no emotional attachment to either.  But I do have a vested interest in a fair and unbiased trust system.

Darkstar_ didn't give merits to his alt. The Lafu situation was harmless and no longer relevant. You really shouldn't say "to give trust" when you mean "to include [in trust list]", it's unnecessarily confusing.

Oh dear... here we go again...

Nice deflection by the way... 

What are you talking about? Darkstar has not given his alt account merits. It appears that you are confusing including someone in a trust list as giving merit,.

While I agree with the sentiment of your post...


Do you mean like how darkstar_ gave his own alt darkstar_alt merits and then both alts gave Lafu Trust?  Or the time LoyceV agonised over giving his own alt merits/trust? (Can't recall which is was - I thought it was an OP, but can't find it - maybe it was a comment).

Then there's your own bowing to peer pressure to remove trust.

You might like to think you're a fence sitter, but you can't even see the fence from where you are standing behind others.

I do too but they (DT member who have tagged him) can't based their judgement just on emotions, they have to work with facts and evidence and that's what they're doing until proven otherwise. My advice to @wwzsocki will be to continuing handling the situation calmly as he's doing and maybe over time he might get pardon and the tags will be removed but for the main time he should continue in his regular activities. Also don't over dramaticalize the situation to attract more tags if not you'll render the account you have worked hard ranking up useless.

I hate to see people that have put in some efforts into contributing to the forum get punished but rules are rules and we have to judge everyone equally.

@DireWolf you made your conclusion based on words not facts.


So...

"Thanks for valid suggestion @wwzsocki for your own guild. I will add this one too to your guild which I translated"
"Here you go, a merit"


Again, when was the source added?

I've been watching this thread from the beginning, and to be honest I want to believe wwzsocki.  He's not a spammer, he doesn't come off like an account farmer, he contributes to the forum, and all in all I think he's an asset to the German and Polish boards, and the forum community as a whole.  

As a testament to his character; look how he's handled these allegations: He's remained calm, not made any personal attacks against his accusers, taken all the criticism for what it's worth, answered the questions asked, and hasn't lost his composure.

His explanation even seems plausible.  I could see myself using one of my addresses to help out my brother, or a friend (who I've been trying to introduce to crypto) just the help them get started while they are still learning.  The only trouble with his excuse is that many many bounty spamming shitbirds have exhausted it as an excuse.  But wwzsocki isn't exactly a bounty spamming shitbird, now is he?

I don't see any reason not to believe him, and in the big picture, what has he really done to deserve all these red tags?  Theymos himself suggested that giving red-tags for merit abuse isn't a great use of the trust system (I'm paraphrasing because I'm at work and I don't have time to dig for the exact quote.)  Since I see no legitimate reason not to believe him I am leaning towards giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I would much rather see a guy who is suspected of merit abuse go free rather than see an innocent dude labeled with these tags.  Yeah, I see the amount of merit cycling between the two accounts, and it does seem excessive.  The use of the same address is also suspicious but not incriminating.

Now all of you folks that gave wwzsocki and Crypto Mania neg-tags are welcome to use the trust system anyway you choose.  That's what it's there for.  But please do consider your actions and their ramifications.  wwzsocki has just been kicked off his sig campaign, and I can only assume that it was due to this accusation and the related tags.  

For that reason alone, I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right.  It would really suck if you guys are wrong and he still lost his spot on that campaign.

This is a completely different situation.

Members from that topic have restored trust, because there were not proved connections between their accounts, while you have a fair amount of them.

~

You're constantly referring to some statement of Theymos. Could you provide a link to his comment?

Source is added later, right? What is the whole truth? Everyone can read that "not crypto mania's" guild. Well, that is very interesting merit distribution between accounts crypto mania and wwzsocki.

Why are you spamming my inbox? Stop doing that.

I don't see this addressed:


Just came to my mind that it makes sense to register account after merit system was introduced to exchange merits to rank up your account:



72 merits to crypto mania, 36 merit back to wwzsocki.

So back to that thread you told your fwiend to translate for merits:




You merited your own guild which you "told your fwiend to translate for merits" and these merits eventually went back to you, and as I can see crypto mania likes to "multi post" things the same way you are doing in this thread.

I suppose that you can prove your words only if administrator will check your accounts and say that you and Cryptomania both logged into the forum from different devices and places.

Considering your Reporter Statistics and the number of earned merit, I think there is a chance that one of the administrators will agree to check your profile to help solve this case.

Yes, I read your explanation.

So you're telling that Cryptomania was able to register on Bitcointalk with his own email, but he couldn't do the same in the bounty campaign?

Sadly I'm very busy these weeks and I can't look here, only one thing about Einc, the protocol should be not based on ethereum but on a different blockchain so the address should be different from the usual user address https://einc.io/

As far as I know, even the closest relatives, generally, have different emails.

---

---

However, in the Einc signature campaign in June 2018 Cryptomania had other ETH wallet

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Perhaps you decided to create another account after you've got the red trust for the first time.

You mean yes, my assumption is correct:




https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/sud-974532



source: https://bpip.org/

That makes 3 friends in masternode shitcoin thread talking to themselves and meriting each others shitposts. Makes me wonder....

---

@Veleor what's with that addy?

Actually, in some cases, members are punished by the forum administration for merit abuse.

Is it your ETH wallet 0x36Aa273ca0f24b587810980e5C478a7A71D1EeBE? (Edited)

@marlboroza

Yeah, and the entire Polish local forum is alt accounts trading merits, right?

No, your assumption is not correct, don't go too far with your accusations please. Yes we are friends from local and other boards, we know each other from other forums/telegram/social. Also I gave most merit to posts I like from users I know (same with receiving), just like you are giving a lot of points to members you know and discuss with. System working as intended. I'm not sure about exact rules, but for all I know you can give all your merit to one user if you wanted to, your choice.

Regarding the topic, I know @wwzsocki enough to know that he wouldn't risk his reputation making alts for a few merits and I don't agree with those accusations - although it may look bad if all you do is hunting for alts/scams/spam. But judging by your posts, looks like nothing can change your mind now, so I'll leave it at that.

Accusation is for accounts crypto mania and account wwzsocki as far as I can see. So I noticed someone and without checking account I made assumption that they are from Poland and that you are merit fans, and I asked you is sud your friend too:

So? Is my assumption correct?

You start accusing all great members of this community that they are my alt or shills. I hope @Sud will come to this thread and answer to your accusations.

If you will read Masternodecoin thread you will see that I was in promotion team for a half year and the first project Crypto mania invested was Masternodecoin were we had masternodes. But that is private information and I don't have to disclose that in every post. I don't have to act on the forum in every post as we are best friends and I told you why a few times before (this is an anonymous forum). @Sud is one of masternode owner and longtime forum member. And yes @Sud is my friend but I don't know him in real life.

I will be back tomorrow again.

You never answered my question so I will repeat it here:

There is no way on the forum to register a friend or family accounts, were close friends or family leaders would be safe from such accusations. I did all I can to inform the forum that we know each other, and are involved in a few projects together. Multiple times posted about this during this year and added to my trust annotations. Crypto Mania did this same.

So please tell me what could I do more to inform you that we know each other, and that is not my alt account?

And I have already told you what I think.





Looks like classing shilling for shitcoin from alt accounts.

Is sud your friend too?


I see intensive posting by at least 3 accounts in that thread. I won't even bother to check account, but let me guess, they are active in Poland local and you are "merit fans"?

Sharing email, telegram, ethereum address, facebook, referral link, IP, sitting in wwsocki's house and surfing internet together, still, communicating via PM's. About project you worked as advisor? Oh, now it all makes sense.

This is not true.
This is also not true. Why do you think you are so special?

This is very interesting to read:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50791882
You forgot to put everything under quotation.

Next post:

-"Thank you mini-me for detailed copy/paste of someone's article"
-"No problem, here you go, +2 merits"

---

Of course you do:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.51180233

You forget to put your copy/pasta under quotation. Again.

And again, mysterious PM:

That is very interesting thread to read.

Look at more your great posts:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.41794678
Looks like constructive post but it is not really a post because it is copy/pasted from telegram.

And what is this:

http://archive.is/4xjWe


I don't see source, now go and report yourself to moderator for plagiarism, seems your account is full of it.

I  watch this thread but don't know what to add because wwzsocki already explained everything many times.
I just can't believe what I see and what is happening.
I can confirm that sometimes at the beginning I spammed and colorized my posts a little because of the lack of knowledge.

P.S
To be honest I don't give a fuck about this red trust because I don't use this forum almost anymore but I know how painful that has to be for you wwzsocki. Sorry.

@wwzsocki I can't reply all of your post due to my journey. But I want to point you that, even I don't know you before made this thread so there is no question that I tagged you for any other reason. Have you talked with me before ? Infant remember exactly.

Whatever you did with your friend/alt account, I were not bothered to tag you if you were not involved with merit trading. Alt account is allowed but merit trading with alt disallowed .  You continue meriting on same user increase the suspicion and someone bothered to create thread. Based on all the evidence I think you deserve tag. Otherwise other people's will do same mistake.


I am really not fan of destroy any account just for little mistakes. But you have done many mistakes. All the mistakes can't be coincidences. You defensive reply isn't going to change my mind. If you like you can create your reputation thread. If other DT members think I have done wrong with you then they could leave you counter feedback's or perhaps my feedback will turn into neutral.

Did your Facebook name also used by Cryptomania without your knowledge?

(Archive)

Man, this is real bad and I doubt so many people will believe you here. I have tried to read through and the worst things you did where to;
- Circulate huge amounts of Merit between yourselves
- Use same email
- Use same telegram
- Exchange trust ratings without any reference
etc
Knowing how this forum operates and how abusers get caught, If it was helping your friend that you were trying to do, then you shouldn't have done the said mistakes above in the first place because sooner or later, things will catch up with you.
You should have encouraged him to create him own personalized email or telegram. I mean, we have got to start from somewhere right?

I have read each reason from you for the above happenings but people will not believe you even if it were true. Alt accounts have been busted in past doing the same thing as you did and no one will think that your case is special.

Like you said we are anonymous here, and we don't really need to know each other but when members see something unusual with involves abuse of trust or merit, then they will put you on the spot light. I thought you should be knowing that by now.

Cryptomania mentioned in April 2018 that he has a Telegram.

(Archive)

There is nothing wrong in helping a friend and sharing things with him and informing about this site, but i have a few doubts after reading everything you said.

You said you are living door to door for a decade and if that is the case and if you think you are accused of something, what is the first thing you do, PM him about the issue and wait indefinitely or make a call and clarify this ASAP  . Since you said you are living nearby and close friends for a decade i am certain that you have his phone number.


You know very well that all it takes to have a Telegram account is a phone and a phone number and how easy it is to install in your friends mobile. Since you are a user here for a long time you very well know that people will connect you with those and thousands of users got tagged and you mentioned that you know that very well, without your permission how can he use your telegram account, that is not a newbie mistake.
About ETH address and ref links, you can see many are caught using alt accounts because they can be connected and yes you are stupid enough to share the address while it takes a few minutes to create a ETH address even if he does not know shit about anything, you can keep the private key and send the address, what is so difficult if you are aware of the forum rules, so who is to be blamed here.


You really do not need to be a geek to create a mail ID, he knows how to join a bounty but does not have a clue about creating a mail ID .

Note: There is too much evidence against you and let the community decide on what to do.

There aren't many posters on our local board so merit is often sent between same members. However, as a merit source, I don't agree with how some posts were awarded - that's highly subjective. I haven't read the whole thread yet.

Lmao, you're a fucking joke mate and terrible at lying.

There is no conflict of interest Hhampuz , I do not trust a person who can share private key with the neighbor,share email with neighbor.
Think yourself, I guess you will easily get the answer.

As far Cryptomania  profile is considered :

wwzsocki sent 72/208 = 34.6 % of Merit to cryptomania.

Crypto mania received 72 merit in total 92 Merit  =  78.2% merit from wwzsocki .

Cryto mania sent 44/46  =95.5% of the total merit to wwzsocki .

Your email,ETH address are personal to you, stop sharing them.

I'm very conflicted.. :/

Hah, because it is normal to talk to your friends via PM, even thought you live next door.


Hmm...talks with his closest friend using personal messaging system.

So you told "him" to post something which you have posted and then you merited your own words?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.35343659
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.47116430
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.42370203

Oh!

That will prove that you and your friend talked to me via skype, nothing else.

Interesting choice of words.
In case you didn't notice, no one is accusing specifically wwzsocki. OP accused accounts crypto mania and wwzsocki.

Am I not helping peoples? I never hold my smerit, once I received any merit then I spend it around forum. But it doesn't mean I have to send it on my friend account. However, I will never mind even you send all merit to your friend. But you have proved yourself that both account belongs to same person by using same mail, eth address and telegram. That's my point why I tagged you. A court will judge based on evidence you have provided, not based on emotions.


No, since there is lot of instant messenger. Forum PM isn't instant by the way.

If you are real friends on offline with same house then why you have bothered to communicate via forum PM? Is not that you have pre-plan what you should do if you expose?

Had theymos told you to abuse merit with Alts?

Possibly, because that time was a wave of tag merit abuser. Or HTML edited although I don't know how to do it. 

That's not for what you got red tag. Let me explain why you are wrong.
If you create multiple account and use same ETH or any other social media including email, you will not get red tag if you do not join on same bounty/signature campaign. But you are not allow to exchange merit between alt account.


How would you think that 99% quality post made by "crypto mania" on forum? Because your almost 99% merit goes to "crypto mania" ?


You are unable to proved that "crypto mania" isn't your alt due to use same email, eth address, telegram username. This subject was not enough for tag if you were not abuse merit system.

Stop accusing @Wwzsocki he did nothing wrong besides he helps me to start with crypto.

What merit abuse and alt account?

How can you judge if there is nothing aggainst us. Wwzsocki already answered all questions and told the truth.
I can confirm that I used this ETH address and email [email protected] for bounty. From some time I am wearing his ref links in my signature, That's it.

What is even better never received any tokens to this address from bounties I have participated. These last transactions are from Wwzsocki bounties too.
I stopped to join them after one or two campaigns.

Is this not allowed? Where is forum rules abuse?

Stop shitposting.

There is no merit abuse because I awarded only high-quality post and this once important to me.

If it goes to Masternodecoin and his post in Polish section I can only assume that he was looking for help because he invested in Masternodecoin.

I was in the promotion team for Masternodecoin project for almost 6 months and he invested because of me and lost a significant amount of money.

After that, for some time we were not talking to each other for a while because he was simply angry on me.

I understand that he was looking for answers in the Polish section because with Google translate you can easily write and understand both languages.

Sorry. I'm active on Polish local since November 04, 2018  (half year after this post) and never seen him, also did not see this post while fast searching his post history now. My mistake.

Well you can do that if you want but you and your friend are going to accused of cheating bounties if you apply for the same bounty.

Sure he does


Stop shitposting.

Connected via: telegram, ethereum address, email and some other things, and:





So how shall we call this?

How about that?
Wwzysocki is one of the most active posters in Polish local board while crypto-mania did not post even a single one ... why? Because wwzysocki is a Polish guy who lives in Germany next to his German friend who does not speak polish.

Would wwzysocki be that smart to avoid his local board with crypto-mania account and the same way that stupid to use the same ETH address, telegram and others? You need to realise that you can have multiple ETH addresses and address posted in BTT is not the most important one since we all know how much you can earn from bounties (close to 0$ currently).

Would he know about VPN:
And not using it while knowing how it is important during hidding account (his account was made in 2013, he knows this forum and rules here)?

-I'm earning on BTT while having fun talking with people
-I want it to, what do have I do?
-come to my house and i'll show you
....
-now eth address
-what is that?
-to get 5$ from bounty to be able to sell it and transfer to exchange and to USD exchange but firstly you need to create seed, store it safely.... bla bla bla ... you know what? For now on use mine and i'll sell those useless tokens from bounties for you IF they will be payed.


The evidence you bring here are convincing but i know that I'll do the same (share eth adress f.e) if I would bring here my very close friend. The amount of evidence you found easily only proves that he was not hiding anything while knowing exacly what the rules are.

It is not how it works. You don't leave positive feedback and - we are friend then.
You would register email for your friend? I got this right?

Do you share the same email with your friend?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45125137

http://archive.is/Fpef0#selection-577.0-558.27

I fixed and changed hacking account to trading trust.

I have a good reason to believe that wwzsocki's account is not hacked or sold because of addy they used in 2014. They used the same address later - @OP fix topic please.
Other connection is solid (the same wallet, referral link, telegram etc).

---

Wwzsocki do you share the same email with your fwiend? 

I didn't mean the same second. I mean you don't really have overlapping time periods between your posts, unless its when both accounts are responding to each other. I don't care enough to do anything about it one way or the other, because you could be correct.


Right, I forgot, usually one account is banned for plagiarism and then the other gets associated through bounty information and banned for ban evasion. Smarmy prick.

Same ETH address.
Same ref link promoting
Used same IP (Acknowledged)
Same typo
Same posting behavior (gap, statement)

What's not the same?
Still they aren't the same person. Both are neighbor.
Lol, the traditional story of the "Bounty is my life."

---

Lol, who's there? A legendary member or an account buyer who don't know the forum rules?
Account ban for bounty abuse?
Legendary, sounds funny.

Sure, I won't hound you on it any further, but just FYI, if one or both of your accounts were banned for bounty abuse, and you came to Meta with these excuses, nobody would believe you.

Well in this case why don't you ever post at the same time? The only time there's less than a half hour gap between your posts is when you are replying to yourself each other.

Hmm that's weird. He has access to the forum, and his "own account," but not his own Telegram? Telegram is incredibly easy to install and set up, whether you have a PC or mobile device.


Then why would he put yours down in a bounty registration? That's what alt accounts do.

After reading through your post history, I notice the two accounts are never online at the same time, unless they are talking to each other. There's not much overlap in account activity except for the they are responding to each other. For example:

6/23/18 – 6/26/18: both have a gap in posting
6/26 2:36 AM – 5:18 AM: wwzsocki
6/26 7:55 AM – 5:19 PM: crypto mania
6/26 5:35 PM – 6/27 4:33 AM: wwzsocki
6/27 6:54 AM: crypto mania
6/27 6:10 PM – 6/28 3:50 PM: wwzsocki
6/28 3:59 PM – 8:29 PM: crypto mania
6/28 9:02 PM – 6/29 7:10 AM: wwzsocki
6/29 5:54 PM: crypto mania
6/30 12:13 AM – 8:32 AM: wwzsocki
6/30 6:51 PM – 7/1 12:14 AM: crypto mania
7/1 2:02 AM: wwzsocki (replies to crypto mania)
7/1 2:41 AM: crypto mania
7/1 5:21 AM – 7:53 PM: wwzsocki

In addition, both accounts tend to comment in the same threads, about the same projects, and have extremely similar viewpoints about everything crypto related. They even use the same phrases:







Each one of these bits of information on its own isn't enough to warrant suspicion but when you add all the examples together, its pretty compelling argument that you are behind both accounts.

same telegram names:
http://archive.is/61uaf


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45125137
http://archive.is/mmGgi

well this is just more evidence for the original 2 accounts op stated:

its a very old post too, deserves to be deleted for the reflink spam on it, but take a look at the freebitco.in reflink here:
http://archive.is/AYhXR (reply #8 from wwzsocki)

and the reflink in the profile of crypto mania:
http://archive.is/T2VeH

this + the same ETH address use, im fairly confident these two accounts are controlled by the same individual.

might be worth looking into these as well, seems to be a lot of merit passed amongst these accounts in particular (in addition to the two mentioned in op).
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/tytanowy-janusz-1925869
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/cryptovigi-1697068
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adamvp-830898

ill try and look through a bit later when i have time.

   I have distrusted both accounts, for now. I don't think someone giving merit to their alts or positive trust to their alts deserves to be anywhere near DT1 or DT2.  I'm on the fence on whether or not I should give red trust as well.

You are welcome. I know, DT means needs DT for tagging

Thanks for the information. However, wwzsocki is not on DT1 or DT2.

Accounts connected: wwzsocki (uuid = 131333), crypto mania (uuid = 1774842)

Reason: using multiple accounts, trading merit, self-talking, account hacking, same ethereum addresses

ethereum address of wwzsocki
ethereum address of crypto mania
trading merit beetween wwzsocki and crypto mania
self-talking
trading trust

All addresses
0x389Fd36aDe499b71da9FD651D092e6a167eb3cEc