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Topic: Need to know more about cold storage (Read 1512 times)

full member
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legendary
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In Satoshi I Trust
legendary
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April 12, 2015, 02:36:04 AM
#26
first of all the wallet does not contain anything, but just private key that you need to access to your bitcoin in the blockchain

imagines that the wallet is like a bunch of keys and the blockchain is a chain of many safe box all connected, inside every safe box there are 25 btc(those 25 can belongs to multiple person)

now to retrieve those you need the correct key associated(or many keys for every box, if the btc inside it belongs to more than one person, which is usually the case)

if you have the key you can access the box with your funds and if your funds are splitted among many safe box, you need more key

so you actually never transfer anything to an offline wallet, you transfer them to the correct safe box, which your key is associated with

First, I though you meant "blocks" by saying "box", then when you said "keys", I understand you were saying about addresses. If it is, see below.


yeah was just an analogy, to make him understand faster

i like to compare the blochain to a chain of these

where inside there is the reward, and you need a private key(which in the safe box is a combination/key) to access your fund)

the only difference is that the blockchain is made of safe box that can be accessed by many people , so it's not just your

and therefore every "safe box" in the block chain has more combination/keys, one for every private key existing, that is associate to the reward inside it
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
April 12, 2015, 01:03:46 AM
#25
first of all the wallet does not contain anything, but just private key that you need to access to your bitcoin in the blockchain

imagines that the wallet is like a bunch of keys and the blockchain is a chain of many safe box all connected, inside every safe box there are 25 btc(those 25 can belongs to multiple person)

now to retrieve those you need the correct key associated(or many keys for every box, if the btc inside it belongs to more than one person, which is usually the case)

if you have the key you can access the box with your funds and if your funds are splitted among many safe box, you need more key

so you actually never transfer anything to an offline wallet, you transfer them to the correct safe box, which your key is associated with

First, I though you meant "blocks" by saying "box", then when you said "keys", I understand you were saying about addresses. If it is, see below.

Okay I think I see where your confusion is.
So for your cold storage address all you need is the public key aka bitcoin address. This can be generated completely offline, the only thing you need to do is then go to your hot wallet and send coins to that cold address you just created. Now your coins are in an address where the private key has never seen the internet. The transaction will be on the blockchain, and everyone running a node will know that you sent bitcoin to that address.

Bitcoins aren't stored in Bitcoin "addresses", coins are stored in "blocks". However,

"It's also important to note that the blockchain technically doesn't store "coins" it stores transaction information. The coins themselves are not discrete things which need storage."

So how where are Bitcoins stored? Technically, "nowhere".

"When coins are sent from A to B, that transaction subtracts from A's balance and adds to B's balance. This is similar to the way that your employer may, via EFT, send "money" to your bank and you can use your debit card to spend that "money" in a store, all without anyone ever seeing a discrete physical dollar bill. Most money in the world today exists merely as transaction histories and balances - Bitcoin is no exception."
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1186
April 11, 2015, 10:22:14 AM
#24


If a wallet which is never connected to internet, then how that offline wallet contains BTC?

See above, How to transfer BTC to an offline wallet which is never connected to internet (here don't bother about hard wallets). If yes, then this transaction is off-chain transaction right?

~Rude Boy

Okay I think I see where your confusion is.
So for your cold storage address all you need is the public key aka bitcoin address. This can be generated completely offline, the only thing you need to do is then go to your hot wallet and send coins to that cold address you just created. Now your coins are in an address where the private key has never seen the internet. The transaction will be on the blockchain, and everyone running a node will know that you sent bitcoin to that address.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
April 11, 2015, 02:58:24 AM
#23
If a wallet which is never connected to internet, then how that offline wallet contains BTC?

See above, How to transfer BTC to an offline wallet which is never connected to internet (here don't bother about hard wallets). If yes, then this transaction is off-chain transaction right?


first of all the wallet does not contain anything, but just private key that you need to access to your bitcoin in the blockchain

imagines that the wallet is like a bunch of keys and the blockchain is a chain of many safe box all connected, inside every safe box there are 25 btc(those 25 can belongs to multiple person)

now to retrieve those you need the correct key associated(or many keys for every box, if the btc inside it belongs to more than one person, which is usually the case)

if you have the key you can access the box with your funds and if your funds are splitted among many safe box, you need more keys

so you actually never transfer anything to an offline wallet, you transfer them to the correct safe box, which your key is associated with
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
April 11, 2015, 01:43:07 AM
#22
See above, How to transfer BTC to an offline wallet which is never connected to internet (here don't bother about hard wallets). If yes, then this transaction is off-chain transaction right?

~Rude Boy

See redsn0w's answer first.

You misunderstood what is "off-chain" transaction.

Off-chain transactions are transactions which isn't stored in "Blockchain". When you do an off-chain transaction, the Bitcoins aren't "really" being moved. You are only getting a confirmation receipt from the company. Off-chain transactions are generally bad and it contradicts some of Bitcoin rules:

• You need to trust the company or person who handle off-chain transaction.
• Off-chain transactions are reversible.
• Off-chain transactions promote & focus on centralization.
• Off-chain transactions don't have public proof(aka ledger).

There maybe more but I think this is more than enough.

If you didn't understand redsn0w's correctly, here is an answer from Stackexchange.

Quote
The "blockchain" is a constantly growing database of transaction information which is sent out to all nodes in the Bitcoin network. When you perform a transaction, that transaction is distributed to the network and assuming the transaction is valid, will be included in the next "block." This is where the coins themselves are stored. When you initiate a transaction, all previous transactions to or from that address are scanned and a balance is calculated. If your transaction exceeds this available balance, it will be rejected by the network and will not be included in a block.

It's also important to note that the blockchain technically doesn't store "coins" it stores transaction information. The coins themselves are not discrete things which need storage - when coins are mined the miner's balance is credited via a "generate" transaction which adds to his or her available balance. When coins are sent from A to B, that transaction subtracts from A's balance and adds to B's balance. This is similar to the way that your employer may, via EFT, send "money" to your bank and you can use your debit card to spend that "money" in a store, all without anyone ever seeing a discrete physical dollar bill. Most money in the world today exists merely as transaction histories and balances - Bitcoin is no exception.

Edit: Added few words.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
April 11, 2015, 01:03:59 AM
#21
Hello!
Thanks all for your answers and another question was arose
The best cold storage is to print your private keys on a paper (don't mention on it that it is Bitcoin-related), copy it several times and store these papers on several locations. To be safe, make a USB copy additionally. Finally, delete the private keys from your laptop, if you use it to get into the internet Smiley

It seems a lot of you don't understand that a cold wallet/storage private key should never be used or exposed online . If it is exposed online than it loss the cold property and it "is not more secure". For generate a real cold address you should choose a "secure" machine with windows (maybe better linux) and "use" bitAddress or client/wallet (downloaded from another machine, and transferred through USB or other storage supports) to generate your offline address. The final thing to do is send your bitcoin to that address and protect your laptop with several "copy" of your private key (into a sheet of paper, cd, floppy, sd,etc...); a real private key of a "cold" wallet address should never be exposed online.

Exactly. I'm surprised how many people think they have "cold storage" just because it isn't readily connected to the internet.

Never let your private key touch an internet connected machine. If you spend from your cold wallet, it's no longer cold and you should move your remaining coins to a new cold address. Personally, I generate my cold addresses with dice, and then convert that base 6 key offline so I can get the public address. The private key is never saved or printed or connected to the internet, I have my private key written in my 99 dice rolls.

If a wallet which is never connected to internet, then how that offline wallet contains BTC?

Cold storage transactions are off blockchain?

~Rude Boy

No, it isn't. All transactions will be on-chain.

See above, How to transfer BTC to an offline wallet which is never connected to internet (here don't bother about hard wallets). If yes, then this transaction is off-chain transaction right?

~Rude Boy

Do you know how a transaction works and where are stored your bitcoin? I will give an help, the bitcoin are stored in the blockchain so when you send a tx to a cold address (check any by block explorer) you will find that your btc is in that address. When you want to "move" the btc in that address  (also if you don't see them in your offline wallet, you should only sign a raw transaction and push/broadcast it on any other device (connected to Internet).
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
April 11, 2015, 12:57:53 AM
#20
Hello!
Thanks all for your answers and another question was arose
The best cold storage is to print your private keys on a paper (don't mention on it that it is Bitcoin-related), copy it several times and store these papers on several locations. To be safe, make a USB copy additionally. Finally, delete the private keys from your laptop, if you use it to get into the internet Smiley

It seems a lot of you don't understand that a cold wallet/storage private key should never be used or exposed online . If it is exposed online than it loss the cold property and it "is not more secure". For generate a real cold address you should choose a "secure" machine with windows (maybe better linux) and "use" bitAddress or client/wallet (downloaded from another machine, and transferred through USB or other storage supports) to generate your offline address. The final thing to do is send your bitcoin to that address and protect your laptop with several "copy" of your private key (into a sheet of paper, cd, floppy, sd,etc...); a real private key of a "cold" wallet address should never be exposed online.

Exactly. I'm surprised how many people think they have "cold storage" just because it isn't readily connected to the internet.

Never let your private key touch an internet connected machine. If you spend from your cold wallet, it's no longer cold and you should move your remaining coins to a new cold address. Personally, I generate my cold addresses with dice, and then convert that base 6 key offline so I can get the public address. The private key is never saved or printed or connected to the internet, I have my private key written in my 99 dice rolls.

If a wallet which is never connected to internet, then how that offline wallet contains BTC?

Cold storage transactions are off blockchain?

~Rude Boy

No, it isn't. All transactions will be on-chain.

See above, How to transfer BTC to an offline wallet which is never connected to internet (here don't bother about hard wallets). If yes, then this transaction is off-chain transaction right?

~Rude Boy
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1186
April 10, 2015, 10:57:05 PM
#19
The best cold storage is to print your private keys on a paper (don't mention on it that it is Bitcoin-related), copy it several times and store these papers on several locations. To be safe, make a USB copy additionally. Finally, delete the private keys from your laptop, if you use it to get into the internet Smiley

It seems a lot of you don't understand that a cold wallet/storage private key should never be used or exposed online. If it is exposed online than it loss the cold property and it "is not more secure". For generate a real cold address you should choose a "secure" machine with windows (maybe better linux) and "use" bitAddress or client/wallet (downloaded from another machine, and transferred through USB or other storage supports) to generate your offline address. The final thing to do is send your bitcoin to that address and protect your laptop with several "copy" of your private key (into a sheet of paper, cd, floppy, sd,etc...); a real private key of a "cold" wallet address should never be exposed online.

Exactly. I'm surprised how many people think they have "cold storage" just because it isn't readily connected to the internet.

Never let your private key touch an internet connected machine. If you spend from your cold wallet, it's no longer cold and you should move your remaining coins to a new cold address. Personally, I generate my cold addresses with dice, and then convert that base 6 key offline so I can get the public address. The private key is never saved or printed or connected to the internet, I have my private key written in my 99 dice rolls.
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 296
Bitcoin isn't a bubble. It's the pin!
April 10, 2015, 10:31:22 PM
#18
This thread helps out a lot! I also wondered exactly what cold storage was. This thread helped me learn a lot. I may put some BTC in cold storage Smiley
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
April 10, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
#17
The best cold storage is to print your private keys on a paper (don't mention on it that it is Bitcoin-related), copy it several times and store these papers on several locations. To be safe, make a USB copy additionally. Finally, delete the private keys from your laptop, if you use it to get into the internet Smiley

Paper wallets aren't good as cold storage is because you will have to expose the private key to a hot wallet when sending Bitcoins. You can also use a PC which is not and never will be connected to internet. But if there is already 2 PC/mobiles, I don't see the reason for using a paper wallet.

 However, if you are HODLing Bitcoins for a long time, paper wallet is good if you take enough precautions for preventing it from getting damaged.

If you are using a paper wallet, Mycelium is recommended for spending Bitcoins from it.

Edit:

=snip=
Finally, delete the private keys from your laptop, if you use it to get into the internet Smiley

It seems a lot of you don't understand that a cold wallet/storage private key should never be used or exposed online. If it is exposed online than it loss the cold property and it "is not more secure". For generate a real cold address you should choose a "secure" machine with windows (maybe better linux) and "use" bitAddress or client/wallet (downloaded from another machine, and transferred through USB or other storage supports) to generate your offline address. The final thing to do is send your bitcoin to that address and protect your laptop with several "copy" of your private key (into a sheet of paper, cd, floppy, sd,etc...); a real private key of a "cold" wallet address should never be exposed online.

He probably meant that if you are using that computer for using internet, delete private keys. But deleting isn't enough as you can recover deleted files too.

To your post: A live usb never connected to internet will be enough if you know how to keep it from physical/internal damages.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
April 10, 2015, 10:17:22 AM
#16
The best cold storage is to print your private keys on a paper (don't mention on it that it is Bitcoin-related), copy it several times and store these papers on several locations. To be safe, make a USB copy additionally. Finally, delete the private keys from your laptop, if you use it to get into the internet Smiley

It seems a lot of you don't understand that a cold wallet/storage private key should never be used or exposed online. If it is exposed online than it loss the cold property and it "is not more secure". For generate a real cold address you should choose a "secure" machine with windows (maybe better linux) and "use" bitAddress or client/wallet (downloaded from another machine, and transferred through USB or other storage supports) to generate your offline address. The final thing to do is send your bitcoin to that address and protect your laptop with several "copy" of your private key (into a sheet of paper, cd, floppy, sd,etc...); a real private key of a "cold" wallet address should never be exposed online.
tyz
legendary
Activity: 3360
Merit: 1533
April 10, 2015, 09:58:06 AM
#15
The best cold storage is to print your private keys on a paper (don't mention on it that it is Bitcoin-related), copy it several times and store these papers on several locations. To be safe, make a USB copy additionally. Finally, delete the private keys from your laptop, if you use it to get into the internet Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
Cashback 15%
April 09, 2015, 12:17:15 PM
#14
Hello!
Actually what is a cold storage (in bitcoins)?
I didn't get it..
Cold storage doesn't have private keys or what? If it have a private key then cold storage can also be hacked by some malware, keyloggers, etc., right?
An online wallet can be used as a cold storage?
Or
i should have any special equipments for cold storage?
Cold storage is something like bit mixer/laundry?
Cold storage transactions are off blockchain?

~Rude Boy

There already exists numerous answers to your questions. For you to not get confused, just keep in mind the terms offline and online. A hot wallet is a wallet that is always connected to the internet. The purpose of having a hot wallet is to move funds from one place to another quickly. Most of the time, these hot wallets contain a very little amount of bitcoins because it is more prone to hacking than the offline wallets. On the other hand, offline wallets, or "cold storage" are wallets that aren't connected to the internet and most of the time contains big amounts of bitcoins.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
April 09, 2015, 07:42:43 AM
#13
Hello!
Actually what is a cold storage (in bitcoins)?
I didn't get it..
Cold storage doesn't have private keys or what? If it have a private key then cold storage can also be hacked by some malware, keyloggers, etc., right?
An online wallet can be used as a cold storage?
Or
i should have any special equipments for cold storage?
Cold storage is something like bit mixer/laundry?
Cold storage transactions are off blockchain?

~Rude Boy
Cold storage means you should never let your private key to be online. If your private key connected to internet, you are not absolutely safe.

This is not 100 percent true.  It means it is stored offline.   But you can use a computer that is not a web surfing computer to load it and fill up your hot wallet if needed.

You do try to make sure to use it as less as possible.   And keep offline as much as possible.

What does it mean exactly  Grin? There are only two option : online & offline. You can't keep it offline as much possible, for keep offline a machine/device you should follow these rules:

- Don't connect to an internet connection,
- Disable the "network card",
- Keep the device in a secure place.
hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 783
better everyday ♥
April 09, 2015, 07:42:09 AM
#12
Hello!
Actually what is a cold storage (in bitcoins)?
I didn't get it..
Cold storage doesn't have private keys or what? If it have a private key then cold storage can also be hacked by some malware, keyloggers, etc., right?
An online wallet can be used as a cold storage?
Or
i should have any special equipments for cold storage?
Cold storage is something like bit mixer/laundry?
Cold storage transactions are off blockchain?

~Rude Boy

Easiest way to break it down.

Hot = Online, always connected.  Could be web wallet or desktop wallet or mobile phone wallet

Cold = Offline, never connected.  Could be paper wallet, usb drive, or air gapped hard drive
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
April 09, 2015, 07:29:17 AM
#11
Hello!
Actually what is a cold storage (in bitcoins)?
I didn't get it..
Cold storage doesn't have private keys or what? If it have a private key then cold storage can also be hacked by some malware, keyloggers, etc., right?
An online wallet can be used as a cold storage?
Or
i should have any special equipments for cold storage?
Cold storage is something like bit mixer/laundry?
Cold storage transactions are off blockchain?

~Rude Boy
Cold storage means you should never let your private key to be online. If your private key connected to internet, you are not absolutely safe.

This is not 100 percent true.  It means it is stored offline.   But you can use a computer that is not a web surfing computer to load it and fill up your hot wallet if needed.

You do try to make sure to use it as less as possible.   And keep offline as much as possible.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
April 09, 2015, 04:28:20 AM
#10
Hello!
Actually what is a cold storage (in bitcoins)?
I didn't get it..
Cold storage doesn't have private keys or what? If it have a private key then cold storage can also be hacked by some malware, keyloggers, etc., right?
An online wallet can be used as a cold storage?
Or
i should have any special equipments for cold storage?
Cold storage is something like bit mixer/laundry?
Cold storage transactions are off blockchain?

~Rude Boy
Cold storage means you should never let your private key to be online. If your private key connected to internet, you are not absolutely safe.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
April 09, 2015, 04:20:58 AM
#9
=snip=

you just put a backup of your wallet there, for security purpose

Maybe you didn't phrase this correctly. If yes, please correct it. This may confuse other users.

A back up in a place never will be a cold storage. What you store in cold storage must not be in a hot/online storage. If yes, then there isn't a need for cold storage because cold storage is protect your Bitcoins from hackings and all but if you store this in a hot/online wallet, private keys are already exposed to danger.

actually i store both, a backup and a different wallet in a cold storage, the first even if you use it in a wallet(low amount) you need a copy of it anyway, your hdd could have be damage one day or other accident, the second with more bitcoin, which it isn't shared with the hot wallet, as you said

But a real cold wallet must be never connected on Internet and especially their copy/buckup should be never exposed outside from that "offline machine". The cold wallet question bring to my mind the Bter cone 'hack', they have said someone stolen 7'000 bitcoin from their cold storage but the unique way for hack and stole those Bitcoins was to be physically in front of that machine/device. Remember if you expose a cold wallet online also for 1 minute you can't continue to name it 'cold'

well i'm must retrieve those bitcoin to spend them(i don't like electrum and company, i just use Core) they are still in a cold storage, but when i plug the usb they become "hot" i know, it does not bother me, because in my desktop i have a "trap wallet" which is the best antivirus, if they don't steal that wallet, then i know my machine is safe and i can plug the usb without worrying about anything
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