Topic: Nemesis - the open source intellectual property system (Read 10684 times)

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Yes, DTC is a nice experiment, also following it.

A considerable amount of the ideas in this datacoin thread are also represented in this thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=338480.100


now accepting datacoins:

D86uHZ94hGYbNbA1GePZ2avFqEhRGz2TYv

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datacoin has launched.  The concept seems to be largely based on the ideas presented in this thread.  YAY!!

the people should demand a coin that rewards each individual for his/her specific contribution of information.  It will be the long term market winner, eventually overtaking Bitcoin.

Project GitHub (new info)

https://github.com/vintagetrex/Nemesis-Project/blob/master/README.md

Someone please find out how to embed the advertisements in the proof of storage file. 

I am now looking for developers and contributors for Nemesis.  Here's the developer recruitment page:

Nemesis Airsoft on toistaiseksi lopettanut sekä Tampereen myymälän että nettimyymälän. ProAirsoft toimii nyt Tampereen liiketiloissa.

Yes, the other miners who are already storing the information.

The publicly verifiable POS I proposed will work.  it proves storage of a message over a period of work, rather than over a period of time.  
I.E. this message was stored while 100382 hashes were performed with random numbers.  

Ideally, it will be implemented with a cryptographic hash function that has a high (time/work) ratio to isolate the storage portion of the process.  
I.E. this message was stored while (2870432 hashes were performed) * (1 second / .01 hashes) = 287043200 seconds

I'll try and find out if a strong hash function like this exists.  It probably isn't necessary I just figured it would be nice if everyone didn't have to purchase specialized hashing hardware like ASIC miners in order to efficiently store information.  Obviously, its not worth trading security for this.  

Maybe a better way to propose this question is this: is there a hash function that is unaffected by CPU processing power/speed?

Watching with interest...

Not if the network of miners are the ones checking that the work was performed and at least 51% agree on what the message was.  Its the same function as Bitcoin's proof of work hash except performed on a message with utility rather than a random string. The only difference is the being hashed is randomly encrypted rather than simply using a random string of numbers.  

Of course someone has to have the message to check that it is being stored by someone else.

(Message ### challenge) = 00000000000001

If someone produces a challenge and claims it works, but everyone says "hey i tried your challenge with the message u claimed it worked for and it totally didn't work" then everyone rejects that falsely produced challenge.  It is very easy to check which allows everyone to check the validity of a solution

The breakthrough we've all been waiting for

(Publicly verifiable proof of storage)


Inputs X and Y are hashed together to produce a digest

Input X can be a message M or an encryption and key of message M

Input Y is the randomly generated challenge

The proof is when the hash of X and Y produce a digest with an output of zeroes I.E. 00000000000

A storer must find an input Y that satisfies a digest requirement of a string of zeroes I.E. 0000000000 by randomly generating numbers to use as input Y.  

The proof of storage is a proof of work on information.  The information must be stored to perform work with it.  The storage of the information can be easily proved by checking that the requirement of a string of zeroes was satisfied.  

And stay in school.

A more concise response to your first question...

Yes, someone has to store the information to prove that someone else is storing it.  However,  100000000000 servers can have their storage of information checked against 1 single storage.  
This is a very huge solution to a problem.  Its hard for me to even hold all the elements in my head.  You have to draw out a diagram of how the information moves through a path of servers and returns to the original server to see what the communication complexity is like.  If you can tell me how to post pictures on this forum I will post a picture of my diagram.  
(referring to privately verified POS)


I will try to think of another way to do POS that wouldn't involve sending the entire message M around, in order to try to reduce communication complexity.  (publicly verified POS, shown later)

A decision by the feds to outlaw the mining of Nemesis will only result in a derivation of the game theory gap concept.  That is: there will be an equilibrium between prices where mining costs say $5 per coin and the coins sell for $20 each (just an example)

I'm glad someone is checking my work!

1 - You were correct that I had not "solved" POS in the traditional CS definition of the word at this point! There was a better solution than privately verifiable POS. It was publicly verifiable POS.  Publicly verifiable POS allowed the complexity of the POS protocol to be sufficiently reduced to a single hash.  

2 - Since Nemesis is hosted by an anonymous distributed network of miners, the government can try and shut it down, but they will have a very hard time.  I am looking to the community for more feedback, input, and ideas, but I have posted my own belief of how the problem can be minimized.  Obviously, there is a lot of work needed to be done creating and implementing the filters.  


For publicly verifiable POS, you break the message up into blocks and create a challenge (another block of data) to go with each message block.  Performing a hash of a corresponding message block and challenge block produces an outcome say a string of zeros 00000000.  You can basically ask a person claiming to store the message by sending them a challenge block and asking them to produce the correct answer of hashing it with the desired message block.  You can change up your challenge blocks (even throw in a few the won't produce a string of zeros 1101011111) to verify that the storer is actually storing that portion of the message.  

proof of storage is definitely doable.  It is only a matter of deciding whether to make it privately verifiable or publicly verifiable.  I had previously proposed a privately verifiable POS system.  I removed it from the thread to save readers time when I came up with a better publicly verifiable POS system.  

Here's a paper on publicly verifiable POS (it will make your eyes bleed):

A Proposed Solution to the Illegal Content Problem

• someone will submit something stupid to Nemesis
• hopefully it won't get stored long term but we have to be willing to face a reality where it will
• giving someone the authority to censor Nemesis' information would completely undermine the entire concept
• Nemesis will not censor its content but it will arrange them into different levels of filters
• assume there are 5 levels that look something like this:
• level one: comparable to google's safe search, no explicit content (PG)
• level two: profanity included (PG 13)
• level three: violence included (PG 13)
• level four: sexually explicit content included (R)
• level five: everything included (illegal)

this way, someone can view the content they want to see without being forced to assume an ethical or legal risk

I wish we didn't have to worry about someone submitting illegal content but its best to be prepared for it to happen

This is the result of rejecting your prescribed role in society.  Imagine finding out you have great capabilities with logic and creativity, but your memory isn't that good.  You do a little better than average in school because your grades are mostly affected by your memory.  You invent great things only to learn that invention is not rewarded in today's society, so you decide to invent a way to get paid for your inventions.  



thank you

This is one of the most interesting ideas I've seen on here in a long time. We shall watch your career with great interest