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Topic: NERDMINER: Bitcoin lottery miners (Read 1072 times)

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
July 28, 2024, 12:31:46 AM
#47
This would be possible, if somehow it weren't possible for big - giant - miners. But really this will probably be impossible to implement.
Even if large miners were impossible, the ones with cheapest electricity would install many small miners. I think it's inevitable for "proof of work" to concentrate on places with the best conditions for mining.

Quote
One thing is certain, he continued to see the increasing danger of mining becoming centralized in 3 or 4 large miners or pools.
Joining a pool with a small miner is kinda useless: it will take forever to reach a payout. If it takes "forever" anyway, you can just as well join the solo-lottery.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
July 27, 2024, 02:36:27 AM
#46
Regardless of the perspective, the fact that it has a low operating cost ends up motivating many to try their luck.
It would be good for decentralization if small miners would be economically viable, but that's just not going to happen. In an ideal world, millions of people would run small miners, and their small pools would collectively make up the majority of hash rate. But we don't live in an ideal world, and most people pay too much for electricity to turn a profit from mining.

This would be possible, if somehow it weren't possible for big - giant - miners. But really this will probably be impossible to implement.

One thing is certain, he continued to see the increasing danger of mining becoming centralized in 3 or 4 large miners or pools.
hero member
Activity: 1659
Merit: 687
LoyceV on the road. Or couch.
July 27, 2024, 02:14:37 AM
#45
Regardless of the perspective, the fact that it has a low operating cost ends up motivating many to try their luck.
It would be good for decentralization if small miners would be economically viable, but that's just not going to happen. In an ideal world, millions of people would run small miners, and their small pools would collectively make up the majority of hash rate. But we don't live in an ideal world, and most people pay too much for electricity to turn a profit from mining.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
July 26, 2024, 05:53:40 PM
#44
It just proves that it's always worth having a toy like this working. Really low consumption and there is always a possibility of finding a block.
You're wrong on the details: it proves it's rarely worth having this toy working Wink

Well it really is all a matter of perspective.  Roll Eyes

Regardless of the perspective, the fact that it has a low operating cost ends up motivating many to try their luck.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
July 26, 2024, 03:26:26 AM
#43
Apparently a solo miner using a Bitaxe mined their first block today:
Your screenshot in the OP showed 55 kH/s. The one that found the block has 300 GH/s. That's already 5.5 million times faster. The total Bitcoin hashrate is 650 EH/s. That's another 2 billion times faster. So let's say 1000 people run a 300 GH/s miner for a year. That makes the chance of one of them finding a block 1000 * 365 * 24 * 6 (blocks per hour) / 2 billion = 2.6%. The chance per person is 0.0026% per year.

The whole ckpool.com has roughly 200 Ph/s of power:



In the public-pool.io there are 1,400 such machines operating:



This adds to the 45,000 operating.

The hash power in the OP is referred to the nerdminer, which is based on a generic CPU. The 300 Gh/s is probably a BitAxe, a machine built over a single ASIC chip of a s19 (so, effectively a 1/300 of a S19 minus some efficiency optimisation).
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
July 26, 2024, 03:19:17 AM
#42
Apparently a solo miner using a Bitaxe mined their first block today:
Your screenshot in the OP showed 55 kH/s. The one that found the block has 300 GH/s. That's already 5.5 million times faster. The total Bitcoin hashrate is 650 EH/s. That's another 2 billion times faster. So let's say 1000 people run a 300 GH/s miner for a year. That makes the chance of one of them finding a block 1000 * 365 * 24 * 6 (blocks per hour) / 2 billion = 2.6%. The chance per person is 0.0026% per year.

It just proves that it's always worth having a toy like this working. Really low consumption and there is always a possibility of finding a block.
You're wrong on the details: it proves it's rarely worth having this toy working Wink
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
July 24, 2024, 06:07:13 PM
#41
Yet it makes me wonder why the has rate skyrocketed just before they found a block.

According to https://solochance.com anyway it was an incredible luck.

Without a doubt, it was something incredible.
It just proves that it's always worth having a toy like this working. Really low consumption and there is always a possibility of finding a block.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
July 24, 2024, 04:49:38 PM
#40
Apparently a solo miner using a Bitaxe mined their first block today:



This image has been reported as a clear demonstration of the fact:



Yet it makes me wonder why the has rate skyrocketed just before they found a block.

According to https://solochance.com anyway it was an incredible luck.



newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
April 08, 2024, 03:23:12 AM
#39
Do you plan to add new boards in the future?  Cool
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
January 20, 2024, 01:35:17 PM
#38
Seems like Canaan is getting interested in the idea of downsizing, not to 5w but 150W for now, not going to advertise the thing here since it already has it's own topic but I find it surprisingly the seeing the big guys going down this route. So, let's see how that part about economically viable plays out!

Can you provide the link to this topic?
I happened to see this ad on their website a few days ago, but I haven't read anything about it here yet.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
January 20, 2024, 01:17:43 PM
#37
I found this little new website called www.solochance.com.

I'm a bit confused:

But I don't have 5m S19 to test how accurate it is  Grin

Anyhow, came back here because of this:

What would it take to add a small ASIC miner into this? Would it be possible to take 1/1000th of the chips of an ASIC miner, and instead of 3500W run at 5W (a bit more per hash but still small enough to run off USB power)? It would be great for decentralization to have millions of people do some mining, but I guess the market isn't big enough to make production economically viable.

Seems like Canaan is getting interested in the idea of downsizing, not to 5w but 150W for now, not going to advertise the thing here since it already has it's own topic but I find it surprisingly the seeing the big guys going down this route. So, let's see how that part about economically viable plays out!




legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 4711
**In BTC since 2013**
January 20, 2024, 12:35:02 PM
#36
Time estimate: 12,336,955,676 years
So you're telling me there's a chance Cheesy (source of this quote)

Based on this chance I'll want to try it.  Cool

In this sense, maybe buy this: https://aliexpress.com/item/1005006102451859.html
Good choice?
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 20, 2024, 09:29:23 AM
#35
Time estimate: 12,336,955,676 years
So you're telling me there's a chance Cheesy (source of this quote)
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
January 20, 2024, 09:21:52 AM
#34
I found this little new website called www.solochance.com.
There, you can plug your Hashpower, and find out the computations, updated in real-time, about the chances of finding a block:



Funny.
I just discovered you need 18,000 s21 to expect to mine a block a day.


newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
December 31, 2023, 09:36:55 PM
#33
Just registered on this legendary forum. Although there is almost no chance of solving a block with a Nerdminer, I think the project is extremely interesting. It's also cool how it's constantly being developed by the community.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
December 16, 2023, 10:05:55 AM
#32
New Firmware has been released.
Update 1.16.3 grants a certain boost in performance.

You can get your update from the usual source:

https://bitmaker-hub.github.io/diyflasher/

The upgrade allows for a 77/80 Kh/s rate.

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 04, 2023, 04:25:14 AM
#31
Did you actually read the thread?
Oh forget the thread, did you read the FIRST paragraph? The one with red letters?
Lol.

Greenhouses in the Netherlands used to use electricity from the grid for lights, and natural gas for heat and CO2. Natural gas was very cheap (for them). Later, they became power producers by running their own gas turbines. They still got the CO2 and most of the heat, but at lower price.
Nowadays, with much higher gas prices, they (also) use industrial waste heat, and industrial waste CO2.

Gas turbines can be combined with steam turbines to further improve the efficiency. That's possible because the exhaust gasses coming out of the gas turbines still have a very high temperature.
As far as using miner heat goes: it's futile. Low-temperate heat has a very low value (think about the Carnot cycle in physics). The heat isn't produced on locations where it's useful. I'm familiar with the edge case of using Bitcoin miners to heat greenhouses. The flaw is: it replaces electric heaters. You shouldn't use electric heaters in the first place, and I'm pretty sure you can get a better business case with a different heating system.

There's a reason Bitcoin miners are concentrated in areas with low electricity prices. Using the waste heat isn't enough to make up for high prices.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
October 04, 2023, 03:45:15 AM
#30
~
Of course, all the other conditions, namely efficiency at the hash machine and price of production factors (electricity, miners), have to be accounted for to prospect a true economic return.

That's the thing I was trying to point out, maybe it got the wrong way and emphasis on a different thing but none of those devices will ever make sense economically matter how you pack them or to what other thing you glue them to, and people should really stop treating them as miners and look at the cost and revenue. Those are more like toys or collectibles or the stuff you buy out of curiosity, I don't think anyone plans to go into the printing business with a 30$ machine or bake goods for its bakery with a single microwave.

It's a fun thing, and it does its job but to be completely honest if it were about learning only I would advise everyone to simply buy an old miner that goes for the same price as those USB miners and explore that since for $40 you can still get a running S9.  You don't need to keep it running 24/7 if you're only learning, and you would deal with a real ASIC, not to mention all the experience gained when that 5yo miner starts to give errors, disconnect, reboot, and lose power all by himself Grin
Pretty much depends on what you want to do and what you want to learn from it.

My idea is ASIC Bitcoin mining farms can install those Nerdminer equipment and do mini solo mining to try their luck. I believe it does not cause any big cost on those big mining farms.
~
Analyzing cost and benefit, I see it is worthy for big ASIC mining farm operators to try with NerdMiner.

Did you actually read the thread?
Oh forget the thread, did you read the FIRST paragraph? The one with red letters?
sr. member
Activity: 966
Merit: 306
October 03, 2023, 08:44:48 PM
#29
I have a shower idea that we know heat from Bitcoin mining can be reused for water heating, tulip bulb heating and more types of heat to energy conversion. It helps to use power and heat in Bitcoin mining cycle better.

My idea is ASIC Bitcoin mining farms can install those Nerdminer equipment and do mini solo mining to try their luck. I believe it does not cause any big cost on those big mining farms.

Analyzing cost and benefit, I see it is worthy for big ASIC mining farm operators to try with NerdMiner.

legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
October 02, 2023, 04:30:44 PM
#28
<...>

I can get a BM1398BB for 20$ via trusty sources and for $10 via less trusty ones and basically no guarantee for DOA, how could I compete with my home-built miner when the 342 chips packed in miner with 1 one-year warranty sell for under 3k?


When I referred to mining efficiency I never meant to state you would be competing with professional miners on an economic basis. I think I made sufficiently clear those machines are meant only for educational purposes.
I instead stated that the mining efficiency of a single basic chip could be comparable to the one of a single chip on a professional mining machine.
Of course, all the other conditions, namely efficiency at the hash machine and price of production factors (electricity, miners), have to be accounted for to prospect a true economic return.
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