Network fee is killing my small profit - page 2.

Juggy777

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Quote from: pilosopotasyo on August 07, 2020, 07:20:59 AM

Quote from: Little Mouse on July 31, 2020, 08:24:58 PM

Mate, BDT is the fiat currency of Bangladesh. I used to buy sell BTC locally to make some profit since I have both some buyers and sellers. And there's no way you can get rid of the high fee now. Coinbase is better since they use batch payment now and fee is proportionally low but it's very risky to use coinbase for such trades because source of BTC can be illegal too.

I feel you man in my case I cannot transfer Bitcoin I've earned from campaign to our local wallet without incurring high fees, I have to wait for more coins to come to my wallet, I cannot use my local wallet for my campaign because they are changing my local address from time to time
i once incurred $4 fees for $5 transfer, really not worth to transfer a small amount.

@Little Mouse indeed it’s very risky to use coinbase as they may force you to submit your details for KYC purposes, and that’s why I left them because I was not comfortable revealing my personal information to them.

Also @pilosopotasyo these days bitcoin fees have shot up tremendously as I had to pay $23 in fees for a small transaction, and normally I would have paid just $1 - $3 for the same transaction.

Lastly the only option I can think of saving fees is by setting them manually in the electrum wallet, and hence I’m sharing the guide here in case anyone else is facing similar issue of bitcoin fees being too high.

How to set fees manually:

https://medium.com/@eaie6297/how-to-resolve-the-insanely-high-transaction-fees-in-electrum-wallet-98bc7dc74e64

metzapp

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Quote from: brightemo on August 01, 2020, 02:50:05 AM

You will be able to make real profits only with big deposit, sorry

Which exchange are you using to make your trade ?

pilosopotasyo

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Quote from: Little Mouse on July 31, 2020, 08:24:58 PM

Mate, BDT is the fiat currency of Bangladesh. I used to buy sell BTC locally to make some profit since I have both some buyers and sellers. And there's no way you can get rid of the high fee now. Coinbase is better since they use batch payment now and fee is proportionally low but it's very risky to use coinbase for such trades because source of BTC can be illegal too.

I feel you man in my case I cannot transfer Bitcoin I've earned from campaign to our local wallet without incurring high fees, I have to wait for more coins to come to my wallet, I cannot use my local wallet for my campaign because they are changing my local address from time to time
i once incurred $4 fees for $5 transfer, really not worth to transfer a small amount.

ttcsalam

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Recently so many network fees have increased.It cannot be imagined.Many small resellers have been forced to quit their jobs due to the increase in network fees.Etherium can grow as they improve their network system.However, in this situation the USDT can still be used as a medium of transaction.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: matan on August 03, 2020, 09:24:10 AM

Most likely you will have to find another way to earn money, I don't see any other options.

All he has to do is pass on the charge. It's not as if buyers will find a seller who magically swallows the cost on their behalf. This is a fundamental part of how Bitcoin works and there's no avoiding it.

matan

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Most likely you will have to find another way to earn money, I don't see any other options.

erikoy

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This is why trading was being discourage due to high fee when converting cryptocurrency to fiat. Here in our place is just the same. The problem adds up during withdrawals because remittances or banks also will made another deductions. It is just like a double or tripple kill for when one likes to invest again then bitcoin has higher rate when buying and lower rate when selling. Totally one will be having a hard time to earn or to just do trade.

Metazen

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It is right unfortunately. You can pay a $10 fee to make a single transfer. This makes it unfeasible to use Bitcoin to pay for purchases of small amounts.

n0ne

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 02, 2020, 04:45:56 PM

I would've thought you could charge far more in a place where Bitcoin isn't legal. Even in places where it is fully legal P2P trades can often be way above the market rate especially when the market is heating up.

If I ran a business where a fundamental part of its cost was completely out my control I would either carefully plan how to handle an explosion in that cost, or find another business where I did have complete control. The obvious one is to pass on the cost to the buyer. The cost is right there in public for them to see if they moan about it.

Agreed, even in the countries where there isn't any opposition for buying/selling of bitcoin has got an added margin as profit. This is apart from the network fee and the third party charges, in simple this can be understood comparing the price with the current market on localbitcoins. Here the buyer will be charged for the fee. Doing the business in a country where it is illegal is high risk involved, and you should get the right reward for the same.

gentlemand

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I would've thought you could charge far more in a place where Bitcoin isn't legal. Even in places where it is fully legal P2P trades can often be way above the market rate especially when the market is heating up.

If I ran a business where a fundamental part of its cost was completely out my control I would either carefully plan how to handle an explosion in that cost, or find another business where I did have complete control. The obvious one is to pass on the cost to the buyer. The cost is right there in public for them to see if they moan about it.

serjent05

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Quote from: Little Mouse on July 31, 2020, 08:24:58 PM

Mate, BDT is the fiat currency of Bangladesh. I used to buy sell BTC locally to make some profit since I have both some buyers and sellers. And there's no way you can get rid of the high fee now. Coinbase is better since they use batch payment now and fee is proportionally low but it's very risky to use coinbase for such trades because source of BTC can be illegal too.

Indeed, and I wasn't surprised that the BCT transaction fee will start skyrocketing again. It always happens when the BTC price is going up. I just scratch my head when I have a tx fee of around $4 equivalent from a $60 BTC transaction.

Latviand

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Quote from: minersday on August 01, 2020, 02:31:54 PM

Transaction fees have always been the problem for small scale traders like us. Personally, I stopped due to this huge transaction fees. I realized that almost 50% of my profits were being used for transaction fees. The nature of transaction fees for smaller transactions is one disadvantage making it difficult for some people to adopt to crypto business transactions.

This is really a hindrance to success if this fees are really high.

Some people are only earning small profits and they are having a hard time to save their money and these fees really make them lose their profits.

But we can't really have a third party if we are living in a state that allows cryptocurrency.

Always expect to have a transaction fees because that's where the government or the platform can benefit your crypto. That's the reason why some people who are earning small profits with crypto are making other businesses so that they can somehow have support for those transaction fees.

Axelseseclevz

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Quote from: minersday on August 01, 2020, 02:31:54 PM

Transaction fees have always been the problem for small scale traders like us. Personally, I stopped due to this huge transaction fees. I realized that almost 50% of my profits were being used for transaction fees. The nature of transaction fees for smaller transactions is one disadvantage making it difficult for some people to adopt to crypto business transactions.

That was the sad reality in cryptocurrency, if the value of some coins increase the network fee also increase. It is good only for those high capital to invest but those with those the money is limited and just small amount , it will turns to nothing instead of making profit.

Finestream

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Are you using a local exchange? if so, I guess you will not be getting a price like a price you will see in Binance and other popular big exchanges.
We have a local exchange also, if I buy bitcoin, the rate is higher like 2% to 3%, and there's always a transaction charge buying bitcoin, so that transaction alone would already cost you an amount which is considered expense, when selling, you are get lesser on the percentage mentioned so you can't maximize your profit.

Bitcoin trading is not really good for micro amount especially if you withdraw and use the blockchain as currently the fee is really expensive.

Try to increase the amount you are trading so you will not feel the fee.

hisuka

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Quote from: Shimmiry on August 02, 2020, 02:57:12 AM

Quote from: Little Mouse on July 31, 2020, 08:08:10 PM

But now after the fee has increased, it has been impossible to get profit. There's a transaction cost which I can not avoid and it is very high.

Too much fees will really kill small trader's profit.
You can try trading on other exchanges if you want.
Well that's probably the best thing to do. Find some exchanges that has a lower fees compared to where you came from.
You'll feel your profit if you became successful there.
Less fees, less worries.

The other day when I'm planning to do a cash out because I have done some trading coin and to take profit. To my surprise the fees is really high which killing most traders now. When btc becomes high it's value the fees it does increase. Well for that if there's any exchange could offer small fees it is good for us who can enjoy better profit.

Shimmiry

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Quote from: Little Mouse on July 31, 2020, 08:08:10 PM

But now after the fee has increased, it has been impossible to get profit. There's a transaction cost which I can not avoid and it is very high.

Too much fees will really kill small trader's profit.
You can try trading on other exchanges if you want.
Well that's probably the best thing to do. Find some exchanges that has a lower fees compared to where you came from.
You'll feel your profit if you became successful there.
Less fees, less worries.

fiulpro

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Quote from: Little Mouse on July 31, 2020, 08:08:10 PM

I have started to buy BTC and sell them in a higher price (in BDT). For example, imagine I have purchased $100 worth of BTC @86BDT per USD and sold them instantly @87BDT per USD. This is a good business even if you take 1BDT per USD profit. I was having some good profits each day.
But now after the fee has increased, it has been impossible to get profit. There's a transaction cost which I can not avoid and it is very high. I trade small amount like $50 even (To make a strong hub). In such cases, I have no profit almost unless I'm dealing $300 or over. That's a pain to pay such fee but I have no way because I do not make a bad relation with buyers and sellers.

Are you using any third party site ?
-because even there you have to pay them some amount.

Or Do you have your own network?
-I made a local community of the Bitcoin holders near my area whom I know , this way whenever someone had to sell/buy we would just message on the group and take the nearest approximate value or whatever the person thinks is right .
This way :
- No controlling body
- Trust , since you already know them
- No fee
- Can directly send the BTC in the wallet straight therefore don't have to juggle it between many.

I do think this issue might now be resolved sooner , you can start charging a little more but that would only bring you less Investors.
(You can change the amount manually in most platforms)
Well I do think you should first look around for a good trading platform they all have different rates .

Because this way you are loosing a lot of money .

Oneandpure

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Quote from: Little Mouse on July 31, 2020, 08:08:10 PM

I have started to buy BTC and sell them in a higher price (in BDT). For example, imagine I have purchased $100 worth of BTC @86BDT per USD and sold them instantly @87BDT per USD. This is a good business even if you take 1BDT per USD profit. I was having some good profits each day.
But now after the fee has increased, it has been impossible to get profit. There's a transaction cost which I can not avoid and it is very high. I trade small amount like $50 even (To make a strong hub). In such cases, I have no profit almost unless I'm dealing $300 or over. That's a pain to pay such fee but I have no way because I do not make a bad relation with buyers and sellers.

Bad thing with your payment fees, I think is not fair when buying 100$ and you got only $86 and how come its possible using as good for trading or investing, maybe you got wrong exchange with your investing and looking other exchange with lower fees payment when trading and withdrawing your assets.

tranthidung

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Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: Little Mouse on August 01, 2020, 10:24:24 PM

Never mind, I would like to share you a secret. When fee is high enough for getting confirmed within 1st block, I think custodial wallets like Coinbase offers the cheapest fee. Because they now do batch payments which give them the chance of saving a lot of fees. As a result, they charge same fee from everyone.
If you simply use 1 input and 2 output in non custodial wallets, I think you will pay much higher than what coinbase charges, the case is true when cheapest and fastest fee is 100 sat+.

There is no secret that platforms, not only Coinbase always do batch payments for their customers - that is one of reasons we have waiting time for withdrawals on platforms to get txid - but I don't mind that because fees on platforms are higher (I could be wrong), except if they waive the fees (some casinos do waive the fee, Fortune Jack for now AFAIK).

I don't use Coinbase so that I can not confirm what you said. Honestly I don't know the fee they save from batch payments will be for themselves or will be shared to customers. Yes, it is a secret I've not yet known.

The key point is: choose the day to move your bitcoin, you will have cheapest fees no matter what from where you move them (from Coinbase or from your Electrum wallet).

Bonus:
How do they (platforms) save fee from batch payment?

Doing batch payment, they will save fees from lower size of payments. Let's see the different size of transaction, from 1 input and different output (all are P2PKH), calculations are from the https://coinb.in/#fees

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No of Outputs

Little Mouse

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Quote from: Yogee on August 01, 2020, 10:30:03 PM

Avoiding frequent transactions is not an option for Little Mouse I believe. He just said in his recent comment that he trades instantly. If someone's selling, he buys and if someone's buying, he sells. In short, he competes with other traders in their local p2p community.

Exactly, I am in such a trade system that I can not avoid frequent transactions because the more transactions I can do a day, the more profit I can earn a day. May be LimLims did not get my point.

Quote

Is the rate that competitive in your community that you cannot increase your mark up to compensate for the fees?

Since network fee is variable, you can also adjust your rate.
If fees are high, sell higher.
If fees are low, you can choose your normal rate.

I am paying seller the highest rate I think. No other buyer will pay 86 BDT per USD at the moment as far as I know because BTC price has increased. I can decrease buy rate and increase sell rate but that may hamper my community. I want to build strong relationship with all of them so that we can have long term dealings.

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