Network Hashrate Growing at .05% per day!!! 5k s9's - page 2.

Crypto Rock

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Quote from: Flying Hellfish on December 26, 2017, 12:24:55 PM

Quote from: polltroy on December 26, 2017, 10:52:22 AM

so basically bitmain, avalon etc are all big scam business? taking money from "retail" miners while the only ones who can make profit are the few who cobtrol the few asci miners?

only way to have a chance to earn on mining is by gpu as this is not controlled market?

Scam is a pretty strong word for it. I don't think anywhere in my post did I say or imply they are doing anything illegal.

Selling money machines to wide eyed newbs in full FOMO mode at the highest price they can, I don't believe that's illegal anywhere. It can be looked at from a business POV as taking advantage of extremely favorable market conditions. Selling retail will allow them to put a multiple of machines online for themselves FREE and months ahead of retail miners. Again not sure where that is illegal. NO ONE is forced to buy their product.

It is literally economics 101, in a free market supply and demand will set the price. In this market we have the manufactures don't need insiders trading info, the have a demand supply ratio skew in their favor as high as 10 to 1. This is what professional sales people DREAM about. Life as a sales exec is easy, profits soar and you look like a genius as a sales exec when your demand exceeds supply by magnitudes..

No they're not scams they're smart legitimate business' taking advantage of extremely favorable market conditions. Any business would do the same.

In principle, I agree with your comments, it's basic economics. It's a seller market.

Making their products available only in one (crypto) currency is however a move that has irritated most of their online buyers, and may bite them back in the future, when more options become available.

polltroy

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if you have been there, could you tell us how many they produce per day? how many workers they have on assembly?

fanatic26

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Quote from: d57heinz on December 26, 2017, 05:50:45 PM

Yes the ignorance displayed here in your comment is amazing. If bitmain has so many sitting on ground and nowhere to put them then WHY are they not shipping immediately? Hmmmm

Have a nice day

Br

1. Some of us actually do this for a living and know what we are talking about. I make the statement having firsthand knowledge of the situation, im not talking out my ass like most people on here.

2. The company is sitting on so many because it is hard to find hosting, there is a global shortage right now. Look at the GND debacle. They dont ship out already used up miners like the conspiracy theorists like to claim. They will sit on their old product that was produced specifically for internal use and sell customers the new ones being produced batch by batch. I have been to their facilities and have seen it in person.

Anything else you would like me to correct you on?

Sandal_Hat

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With bitmain, avalon and ebit all selling good miners next year....that cant be good for difficulty level. And miner prices are higher.

d57heinz

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: WhyFhy on December 27, 2017, 03:00:52 PM

Quote from: d57heinz on December 26, 2017, 01:02:58 AM

So for fun i did the math today. At 14 exahash if we add .05% each day that equates to over 5000 s9 added to network per day ?. Correct me if i am wrong. This is amazing and explains the crazy increase in price along with the upswing in this graph. http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ Even with the backup in transactions it looks like security will continue to increase as more continue to mine.. I have no doubts that scaling will be addressed this year. Better to get it right the first time. Look at what the alts do right as the test bed and implement the best features into btc. Thats how i see it going down some time in the future. BTC will always remain the OG of crypto. Anyway for those wondering why bitmain raise price.. well supply and demand.. also they expect another crazy jump in price soon. Going to be a great 2018 Grin

.

also look at correlation to this graph set at 1 wk time frame. https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
Merry Christmas Everyone And Happy New Year!

Best Regards
Doug

Its because next gen is coming out and in testing phases

That I have no doubts about. That’s always when they sell the miners to us. When they are one step ahead. Makes sense.

BR

WhyFhy

hero member

Activity: 1423

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Quote from: d57heinz on December 26, 2017, 01:02:58 AM

So for fun i did the math today. At 14 exahash if we add .05% each day that equates to over 5000 s9 added to network per day ?. Correct me if i am wrong. This is amazing and explains the crazy increase in price along with the upswing in this graph. http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ Even with the backup in transactions it looks like security will continue to increase as more continue to mine.. I have no doubts that scaling will be addressed this year. Better to get it right the first time. Look at what the alts do right as the test bed and implement the best features into btc. Thats how i see it going down some time in the future. BTC will always remain the OG of crypto. Anyway for those wondering why bitmain raise price.. well supply and demand.. also they expect another crazy jump in price soon. Going to be a great 2018 Grin

.

also look at correlation to this graph set at 1 wk time frame. https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
Merry Christmas Everyone And Happy New Year!

Best Regards
Doug

Its because next gen is coming out and in testing phases

polltroy

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how u guys can think bitmain is not scam?

1. they compete with their customers
2. they can manipulate customers profits AFTER they have money but BEFORE they deliver
3. they can use sales to manipulate their own currency
4. they have oligopoly
5. in total they can make sure only they profit and customers get zero gains (or just whatever the current capital cost for bitmain is)

Flying Hellfish

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: d57heinz on December 26, 2017, 05:50:45 PM

Quote from: fanatic26 on December 26, 2017, 01:56:31 PM

The ignorance in this thread is pretty impressive. This theory that bitmain is taking your money specifically to run their own miners is just plain dumb. Bitmain has 10k+ of their own mienrs sitting on the ground because even they cannot find datacenter space for them all. Why do you think they tried making agreements with places like great north data to run their equipment? They can only put them up as fast as new space becomes available so thats another conspiracy theory you can toss out the window.

An s9 makes $850/month before power costs and everyone is complaining that bitmain is holding down profits. Were none of you in this industry a year ago? Gimme a break.

Yes the ignorance displayed here in your comment is amazing. If bitmain has so many sitting on ground and nowhere to put them then WHY are they not shipping immediately? Hmmmm

Have a nice day

Br

Or why not sell them for 3k each (its not like that's 25 or 30 mill dollars sitting around)... LOL on top of that we can see the hashrate climbing FAST. But ok keep running around telling everyone the hashrate/diff jumps are retail miner sales...

d57heinz

legendary

Activity: 1453

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Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: fanatic26 on December 26, 2017, 01:56:31 PM

The ignorance in this thread is pretty impressive. This theory that bitmain is taking your money specifically to run their own miners is just plain dumb. Bitmain has 10k+ of their own mienrs sitting on the ground because even they cannot find datacenter space for them all. Why do you think they tried making agreements with places like great north data to run their equipment? They can only put them up as fast as new space becomes available so thats another conspiracy theory you can toss out the window.

An s9 makes $850/month before power costs and everyone is complaining that bitmain is holding down profits. Were none of you in this industry a year ago? Gimme a break.

Yes the ignorance displayed here in your comment is amazing. If bitmain has so many sitting on ground and nowhere to put them then WHY are they not shipping immediately? Hmmmm

Have a nice day

Br

polltroy

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 1

also in long run... if bitmain and avalon keep most miners for themselves, after a couple of years they will be close to the 50% mining power to cheat the ledger? maybe this is ONLY reason they sell miners at all? if they come close to 50% and this comes out it means RIP bitcoin.

polltroy

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 1

i dont think gpu manufacturers have mining farms, no...

and gpu you can spend money today and start mining tomorrow..

bitmain: spend money today... wait 3 months... while they put out 100.000 miners themselves and tripple difficulty... oups if bitcoin went up u still do little profit... if bitcoin down or stable your miner is worthless because the action of the seller. sounds like scam to me!

fanatic26

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 560

The ignorance in this thread is pretty impressive. This theory that bitmain is taking your money specifically to run their own miners is just plain dumb. Bitmain has 10k+ of their own mienrs sitting on the ground because even they cannot find datacenter space for them all. Why do you think they tried making agreements with places like great north data to run their equipment? They can only put them up as fast as new space becomes available so thats another conspiracy theory you can toss out the window.

An s9 makes $850/month before power costs and everyone is complaining that bitmain is holding down profits. Were none of you in this industry a year ago? Gimme a break.

Flying Hellfish

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Activity: 1764

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Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: polltroy on December 26, 2017, 10:52:22 AM

so basically bitmain, avalon etc are all big scam business? taking money from "retail" miners while the only ones who can make profit are the few who cobtrol the few asci miners?

only way to have a chance to earn on mining is by gpu as this is not controlled market?

Scam is a pretty strong word for it. I don't think anywhere in my post did I say or imply they are doing anything illegal.

Selling money machines to wide eyed newbs in full FOMO mode at the highest price they can, I don't believe that's illegal anywhere. It can be looked at from a business POV as taking advantage of extremely favorable market conditions. Selling retail will allow them to put a multiple of machines online for themselves FREE and months ahead of retail miners. Again not sure where that is illegal. NO ONE is forced to buy their product.

It is literally economics 101, in a free market supply and demand will set the price. In this market we have the manufactures don't need insiders trading info, the have a demand supply ratio skew in their favor as high as 10 to 1. This is what professional sales people DREAM about. Life as a sales exec is easy, profits soar and you look like a genius as a sales exec when your demand exceeds supply by magnitudes..

No they're not scams they're smart legitimate business' taking advantage of extremely favorable market conditions. Any business would do the same.

d57heinz

legendary

Activity: 1453

Merit: 1011

Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

Quote from: polltroy on December 26, 2017, 10:52:22 AM

so basically bitmain, avalon etc are all big scam business? taking money from "retail" miners while the only ones who can make profit are the few who cobtrol the few asci miners?

only way to have a chance to earn on mining is by gpu as this is not controlled market?

all markets have a manufacturer in "control". gpu has two main groups nvidia amd. unless we can make these devices ourselves we are at the mercy of the manufacturers. Should they mine for themselves? well thats for another discussion. Asic manuf. do scam a bit in the sense they take preorders. Allowing you to do calcs (allowing them to price higher) based on todays current network situation vs 3 months from now. They know what its going to do as they build the machines and know exactly whats coming online with a degree of near certainty. (see the bitmain dash miner thread) i honestly think most manufactures either collude or have insiders that share what each company has going on. So yea they are duping the retail users by mining the profit out of the machines before shipping. Profits can me made by mining atm but with the crazy jumps in hash my bet is on buying/hodling some coins. to me beauty of gpu is the ability to mine so many different algo's! Its more of a hedge for when btc mining isnt doing too well. If your going to mine ideally you would want to mine all the algos. When one is down $ most of time another is up. mining rewards remain relatively stable this way.

BR

polltroy

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Activity: 17

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so basically bitmain, avalon etc are all big scam business? taking money from "retail" miners while the only ones who can make profit are the few who cobtrol the few asci miners?

only way to have a chance to earn on mining is by gpu as this is not controlled market?

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1750

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: polltroy on December 26, 2017, 05:37:07 AM

I too was making similar observation some days ago. What hit me is if currently 1000-5000 new S9 or equivalent are turned on every day, where they come from? Obviously its nearly impossible to buy new miners, at least on short term, if you are lucky and are able to order you have to wait months. some of these numbers could be from old miner models being turned back on again, others from some s9 getting delivered from old batches. but anyway numbers seems huge! Can it be that the miner factories (avalon, bitmain etc) put most of their production into their own farms? or can it be someone made a more effective miner (like n10 chip) but does not offer it to public and just use it for own farming? Ideas?

LULZ of course the manufacture's are putting machines online as quick as they can... Bitmain has HUGE FARMS. There is no chance that these diff jumps are simply retail sales of miners.

Think about the pre-order game. You pay them X BTC now and with that money the manufacture can put maybe 3 or 4 or 5 machines of their own online with YOUR MONEY... They mine as much as they can drive up diff and then ship out a few units to retail customers a few months later.

Miners are literally building their competition up at a multiple rate.

polltroy

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 1

I too was making similar observation some days ago. What hit me is if currently 1000-5000 new S9 or equivalent are turned on every day, where they come from? Obviously its nearly impossible to buy new miners, at least on short term, if you are lucky and are able to order you have to wait months. some of these numbers could be from old miner models being turned back on again, others from some s9 getting delivered from old batches. but anyway numbers seems huge! Can it be that the miner factories (avalon, bitmain etc) put most of their production into their own farms? or can it be someone made a more effective miner (like n10 chip) but does not offer it to public and just use it for own farming? Ideas?

d57heinz

legendary

Activity: 1453

Merit: 1011

Bitcoin Talks Bullshit Walks

So for fun i did the math today. At 14 exahash if we add .05% each day that equates to over 5000 s9 added to network per day ?. Correct me if i am wrong. This is amazing and explains the crazy increase in price along with the upswing in this graph. http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ Even with the backup in transactions it looks like security will continue to increase as more continue to mine.. I have no doubts that scaling will be addressed this year. Better to get it right the first time. Look at what the alts do right as the test bed and implement the best features into btc. Thats how i see it going down some time in the future. BTC will always remain the OG of crypto. Anyway for those wondering why bitmain raise price.. well supply and demand.. also they expect another crazy jump in price soon. Going to be a great 2018 Grin

.

also look at correlation to this graph set at 1 wk time frame. https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
Merry Christmas Everyone And Happy New Year!

Best Regards
Doug

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