New Idea: Newbie test | Bitcointalksearch.org

Wolf0

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Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 08:37:20 AM

Quote from: tysat on June 20, 2013, 08:31:09 AM

I don't think a test is the way to go, it'd be too hard to make it fair to everyone. Plus people would just get answers posted somewhere so everyone could get past it, then it wouldn't be doing anything.

i don't think you have a proper grasp on the concept. You just don't understand people the way i do. Its like reverse psychology. You put something in big red letters followed by the disclaimer/test forcing them to read it without even thinking about it. How do you think Advertisers get you to stare at the Idiot box every night in between scenes of Operation: Repo. it takes a certain technique to get someone to read something subconsciously. For instance Operation: Repo and most drama/reality based tv shows get you to sit through ads subconsciously by breaking the scene at key moments. its the same concept really. the user finishes the registration and is all ready and eager to get into the forum and the big red text appears, subconsciously drawing them in. it atleast gets there attention, long enough to leave a subconscious awareness. call it a subliminal message if you will.

You're partially right. Advertisers get people to sit through commercials mostly because people don't want to miss what happens next in the show. What they do is, make the ads as long as they possibly can without giving the victim time to do something else. This forces them to sit through the ads.

Also, people fucking hate advertisements. You really want to add something that's annoying like them as a prerequisite for joining the forum?

TomUnderSea

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Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 05:33:31 AM

...

It's funny, but a forum i was a member of ran two identical polls: one a stickied topic, one a normal topic. the sticky got about 1/6th the views of the normal topic, and only recieved 12 votes. the normal topic went on to become a 80+ page post and a discussion on how 7.5 of 10 people or 3/4 of people train their brain to ignore sticky topics and skip right to the regular board scanning for new threads that interested them. perhaps a similar social experiment is in order to prove the premise that most people ignore stickies by default as personal habit.

Guilty.

I will only stop and read the sticky titles on occasion. Typically I will only go to the sticky thread if I have a specific question _and_ the sticky title seems pertinent.

r3wt

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Quote from: tysat on June 20, 2013, 08:31:09 AM

I don't think a test is the way to go, it'd be too hard to make it fair to everyone. Plus people would just get answers posted somewhere so everyone could get past it, then it wouldn't be doing anything.

i don't think you have a proper grasp on the concept. You just don't understand people the way i do. Its like reverse psychology. You put something in big red letters followed by the disclaimer/test forcing them to read it without even thinking about it. How do you think Advertisers get you to stare at the Idiot box every night in between scenes of Operation: Repo. it takes a certain technique to get someone to read something subconsciously. For instance Operation: Repo and most drama/reality based tv shows get you to sit through ads subconsciously by breaking the scene at key moments. its the same concept really. the user finishes the registration and is all ready and eager to get into the forum and the big red text appears, subconsciously drawing them in. it atleast gets there attention, long enough to leave a subconscious awareness. call it a subliminal message if you will.

r3wt

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Ugh, trolls.

tysat

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Keep it real

I don't think a test is the way to go, it'd be too hard to make it fair to everyone. Plus people would just get answers posted somewhere so everyone could get past it, then it wouldn't be doing anything.

chipug

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696B6111

Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 05:28:01 AM

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on June 20, 2013, 05:22:25 AM

There's a few problems with this:

1) Non English speakers. Ignoring them or telling them to learn English is not a solution.

2) Not everyone is here to trade.

3) If this was the first time I have heard of Bitcoin, I am not going to spend 15 minutes or so doing a reading comprehension test.

Do some A/B testing - I would be very surprised if you don't cut userbase growth by at least 80%.

Points 1 and 2 and 3: You do raise valid points. perhaps a drop down box with language select before the test initiates. i realize not everyone is here to trade, but at the very least there should be a disclaimer in bold red letters about the prevalence of scammers on the board, with a button to opt out of the test.

A/B testing? i'm not familiar with that, but supposing there is an opt out of the test, do you still think it would curb the growth rate of the member base?

If some newbs can't be bothered to read pages upon pages of posts reporting scam and then ask to get in on it, they aren't going to do the test if they can opt-out, are they?!

uMMcQxCWELNzkt

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Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 06:03:22 AM

Quote from: uMMcQxCWELNzkt on June 20, 2013, 06:00:18 AM

OP I don't get what your newbie test idea is, but if it is to do with full fulling those steps I don't think it is a good idea.

Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:04:56 AM

Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 03:46:57 AM

Quote from: nwbitcoin on June 20, 2013, 03:37:46 AM

Personally, I think changing the process is pointless.

The reason for the newbie jail is to work out who has the patience and commitment to go through to the end, if you don't, then there is a question of long term commitment

I got through the process in less than a day, and I spent it reading all the posts I could get access to.
This increased my understanding of bitcoin, and meant I didn't ask too many stupid questions later.

Try it, you might like it!

Wink

no i did the same thing. i'm just saying before newbs even get to post in newbies, they should have to take a test.

We would lose a lot of people. Especially people who have problems with reading or concentrating. I don't think a 'test' is needed. It doesn't prove anything. They can just copy and paste. Which means they may not even read it anyway. Use the find function and blam!
At least the system now tests how dedicated they are.
To be honest, if I were a newbie a test would piss me off. I had enough of that in my college...lol

Yeah I hate when I visit a forum and people expect me to read and concentrate.

It depends on what kind of test, I just don't feel the list of steps would not work as a test for newbies. Perhaps a general multiple choice test asking basic questions like "Which of these options best describes the blockchain?". If they don't know the answer provide a link so then can get a brief understanding, this kind of test could just reduce the time waiting as opposed to being compulsory to join the forum. To be honest people would likely post answers up online anyway so it won't stop spammers either.

r3wt

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Quote from: uMMcQxCWELNzkt on June 20, 2013, 06:00:18 AM

OP I don't get what your newbie test idea is, but if it is to do with full fulling those steps I don't think it is a good idea.

Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:04:56 AM

Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 03:46:57 AM

Quote from: nwbitcoin on June 20, 2013, 03:37:46 AM

Personally, I think changing the process is pointless.

The reason for the newbie jail is to work out who has the patience and commitment to go through to the end, if you don't, then there is a question of long term commitment

I got through the process in less than a day, and I spent it reading all the posts I could get access to.
This increased my understanding of bitcoin, and meant I didn't ask too many stupid questions later.

Try it, you might like it!

Wink

no i did the same thing. i'm just saying before newbs even get to post in newbies, they should have to take a test.

We would lose a lot of people. Especially people who have problems with reading or concentrating. I don't think a 'test' is needed. It doesn't prove anything. They can just copy and paste. Which means they may not even read it anyway. Use the find function and blam!
At least the system now tests how dedicated they are.
To be honest, if I were a newbie a test would piss me off. I had enough of that in my college...lol

Yeah I hate when I visit a forum and people expect me to read and concentrate.

uMMcQxCWELNzkt

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Activity: 406

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OP I don't get what your newbie test idea is, but if it is to do with full fulling those steps I don't think it is a good idea.

Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:04:56 AM

Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 03:46:57 AM

Quote from: nwbitcoin on June 20, 2013, 03:37:46 AM

Personally, I think changing the process is pointless.

The reason for the newbie jail is to work out who has the patience and commitment to go through to the end, if you don't, then there is a question of long term commitment

I got through the process in less than a day, and I spent it reading all the posts I could get access to.
This increased my understanding of bitcoin, and meant I didn't ask too many stupid questions later.

Try it, you might like it!

Wink

no i did the same thing. i'm just saying before newbs even get to post in newbies, they should have to take a test.

We would lose a lot of people. Especially people who have problems with reading or concentrating. I don't think a 'test' is needed. It doesn't prove anything. They can just copy and paste. Which means they may not even read it anyway. Use the find function and blam!
At least the system now tests how dedicated they are.
To be honest, if I were a newbie a test would piss me off. I had enough of that in my college...lol

Yeah I hate when I visit a forum and people expect me to read and concentrate.

r3wt

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Merit: 504

always the student, never the master.

Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:49:40 AM

Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 05:45:04 AM

Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:41:55 AM

I already know people ignore certain information on the internet. Especially things which look like ads. But, what do you do when you look through a sub section?
You will most likely go from top to bottom. Especially new users. They are normally eager to learn more and will scan that newbie page to hell.
Plus, sticky posts look the same as normal threads of this forum. Except they stay at the top.

Also, this forum you said. If them posts were labelled different then you can't compare them.

hmmm... perhaps if they are new to forums, which is certainly a possibility. why not eliminate the doubt and make a simple short test.

The user reads the redflags of scammers, tips on escrow, and a couple more useful things like the 4 hour 5 post rule, then writes their username in the box at the end signifying they understand. something short and sweet.

Okay, I'm going to stop pointing out the flaws. As I kind of agree. I was only posting possible flaws.

Here is good reasons:

- People don't take interest in thread titles which they don't want to know much about, even if it's important. They normally skip over it without realising.
- A SMALL test would encourage them to look for the information their selves and input a answer.
- Like I said with the concentration issue. You should of come back and said people who can't concentrate don't want to be looking for a lot of information so this test would be a great way to contain all the NEEDED information.

Don't feel like I was arguing or being funny. I was seeing what you would come up with.

One question: Would all the information be grouped together? Who would it be scattered around in various different sections of the forum?

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on June 20, 2013, 05:48:16 AM

It doesn't matter how big of a warning you do, there are always idiots who think "gee this guy says he's going to sign off soon, I don't think he's a scammer! gonna send!"

This. People see a opportunity where they can make money (even if it's too good to be true) they will go ahead. They will ignore all the warnings and that's what normally happens.

ok, i went back and changed my reply with an example of the test format. and to TF's last point: yeah, there is simply no refuting that. people gonna be stupid no matter how you try to help them, but it still doesn't justify ignoring the problem we have of scammers praying on new users.

Welsh

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Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 05:45:04 AM

Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:41:55 AM

I already know people ignore certain information on the internet. Especially things which look like ads. But, what do you do when you look through a sub section?
You will most likely go from top to bottom. Especially new users. They are normally eager to learn more and will scan that newbie page to hell.
Plus, sticky posts look the same as normal threads of this forum. Except they stay at the top.

Also, this forum you said. If them posts were labelled different then you can't compare them.

hmmm... perhaps if they are new to forums, which is certainly a possibility. why not eliminate the doubt and make a simple short test.

The user reads the redflags of scammers, tips on escrow, and a couple more useful things like the 4 hour 5 post rule, then writes their username in the box at the end signifying they understand. something short and sweet.

Okay, I'm going to stop pointing out the flaws. As I kind of agree. I was only posting possible flaws.

Here is good reasons:

- People don't take interest in thread titles which they don't want to know much about, even if it's important. They normally skip over it without realising.
- A SMALL test would encourage them to look for the information their selves and input a answer.
- Like I said with the concentration issue. You should of come back and said people who can't concentrate don't want to be looking for a lot of information so this test would be a great way to contain all the NEEDED information.

Don't feel like I was arguing or being funny. I was seeing what you would come up with.

One question: Would all the information be grouped together? Who would it be scattered around in various different sections of the forum?

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on June 20, 2013, 05:48:16 AM

It doesn't matter how big of a warning you do, there are always idiots who think "gee this guy says he's going to sign off soon, I don't think he's a scammer! gonna send!"

This. People see a opportunity where they can make money (even if it's too good to be true) they will go ahead. They will ignore all the warnings and that's what normally happens.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

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It doesn't matter how big of a warning you do, there are always idiots who think "gee this guy says he's going to sign off soon, I don't think he's a scammer! gonna send!"

r3wt

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always the student, never the master.

Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:41:55 AM

I already know people ignore certain information on the internet. Especially things which look like ads. But, what do you do when you look through a sub section?
You will most likely go from top to bottom. Especially new users. They are normally eager to learn more and will scan that newbie page to hell.
Plus, sticky posts look the same as normal threads of this forum. Except they stay at the top.

Also, this forum you said. If them posts were labelled different then you can't compare them.

hmmm... perhaps if they are new to forums, which is certainly a possibility. why not eliminate the doubt and make a simple short test? something like:

Quote

redflags of scammers

example scammer technique
link to a list of useful threads on the subject

Explanation of escrow/trusted escrow providers

explanation of escrow service
list of trusted escrow providers
link to useful threads on subject

4 hour 5 post rule

explanation of rule
reason for rule
whitelist request thread

write your username in the box signifying you agree [_________]

Welsh

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I already know people ignore certain information on the internet. Especially things which look like ads. But, what do you do when you look through a sub section?
You will most likely go from top to bottom. Especially new users. They are normally eager to learn more and will scan that newbie page to hell.
Plus, sticky posts look the same as normal threads of this forum. Except they stay at the top. Just look at the amount of views them sticky threads have. I think that says enough of people ignoring them.

Also, this forum you said. If them posts were labelled different then you can't compare them.

PS: The reason I have been questioning you is because I want more information. With more information you might just win me over.

r3wt

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always the student, never the master.

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on June 20, 2013, 05:36:42 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness

exactly. +1

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness

r3wt

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Quote from: Baitty on June 20, 2013, 05:32:12 AM

We have a long time to search this stuff up ourselves. Self learning is much better than taking tests. Tests actually put pressure on people.

but does it prevent a newbie from falling into the web of a malicious user?

r3wt

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Quote from: Welsh on June 20, 2013, 05:24:40 AM

So, you want a test which would have to be translated in many different languages?

TO be honest. A lot of people come here to LEARN about Bitcoin and not to trade. There are other places where they prefer to trade as there is built in escrow etc.
It's their own fault if they don't want to read up on scams and how to avoid them. All the material is here. Most of them are sticky threads so they aren't easy to miss.

It's funny, but a forum i was a member of ran two identical polls: one a stickied topic, one a normal topic. the sticky got about 1/6th the views of the normal topic, and only recieved 12 votes. the normal topic went on to become a 80+ page post and a discussion on how 7.5 of 10 people or 3/4 of people train their brain to ignore sticky topics and skip right to the regular board scanning for new threads that interested them. perhaps a similar social experiment is in order to prove the premise that most people ignore stickies by default as personal habit.

Baitty

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We have a long time to search this stuff up ourselves. Self learning is much better than taking tests. Tests actually put pressure on people.

Welsh

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Quote from: r3wt on June 20, 2013, 05:28:01 AM

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on June 20, 2013, 05:22:25 AM

There's a few problems with this:

1) Non English speakers. Ignoring them or telling them to learn English is not a solution.

2) Not everyone is here to trade.

3) If this was the first time I have heard of Bitcoin, I am not going to spend 15 minutes or so doing a reading comprehension test.

Do some A/B testing - I would be very surprised if you don't cut userbase growth by at least 80%.

Points 1 and 2 and 3: You do raise valid points. perhaps a drop down box with language select before the test initiates. i realize not everyone is here to trade, but at the very least there should be a disclaimer in bold red letters about the prevalence of scammers on the board, with a button to opt out of the test.

A/B testing? i'm not familiar with that, but supposing there is an opt out of the test, do you still think it would curb the growth rate of the member base?

What about the users who have problems understanding and/or reading large text? A lot of people in the world have concentration issues. Also, they have a FULL 4 hours to search this stuff up. You could post a thread in the newbies area which has a directory of useful posts which teaches them about scams and other useful information.

Topic: New Idea: Newbie test (Read 1210 times)