Topic: New non-"coin" coins that would be useful without being currency (Read 2818 times)

woot woot!

Especially if there is an opening-night party. 

You can calculate a hash of the data you want to protect in the blockchain, and attach it to a transaction with the OP_RETURN function.
You would have to find other places to store the data itself, but the hash would be officially timestamped in the Bitcoin blockchain; you can refer to this hash in order to prove certain qualities about the data.

As to your "thousands of new coins" idea; this exists in counterparty (a decentralized exchange protocol built on top of the Bitcoin blockchain). You can issue and trade custom assets. They are like altcoins, except they are protected by the full hashing power of the Bitcoin network. You can issue shares in batches, pay dividends, set a call back time and price, etc... These assets can be used for all the purposes you are describing, and I think the decentralized exchanges will make wall street obsolete.

Build it and they will come

Think about. Your data is already out there. Anyone can already get it for a few bucks. Is it really that much of a secret? If a car dealership can have access to your credit history And a potential employer can access records, and cops, and banks, credit cards. Is your info private or public. If its already public then block chain that shit and put those credit reporting agencies out of business.

The level behind the big three reporting agencies is called Lexus nexus. Pure fucking evil these guys. They have info such as who your neighbors were, their address, phone numbers, and last 4 of their social.

Fucking creep sauce.

I suggested a coin / system to replace congress in another thread.

However today I came up with this idea. Whereas the three main credit reporting agencies (experian, equifax, transunion)are just some punk ass bitch companies that collect random info and assign it to your person, then create a proprietary magical number that influences your interactions with the financial world; maybe the block chain can put them out of business?

I haven't really fleshed this idea out more so I'm sure it will be interpreted differently. But it would be like ID and credit rating coin.

You're not with the terrorists right? Then what do you have to hide? Lol.

Hmm...perhaps I should learn more about Ethereum.  To be fair all I've seen so far is one article, and my impression is it was more of an open structure, more like another language (I know the article compared it to what Java did for the internet) than a method to put everything on the Bitcoin blockchain.  And I'm with you all on that...I don't see any reason not to have thousands of different blockchains floating around.  Putting everything on one blockchain is basically like a fusion center for information.  Far too much centralization of power, even if the system itself is decentralized at the moment.  Gives far too much incentive for an attack; it wouldn't even require a true 51% attack, all that would be needed is something along the lines of clogging everything up to disrupt any service that depends on it.  

OK, I had some other ideas about Phonecoin...the way I've pursued it thus far is just silly; it's a solution in search of a problem.  Conventional P2P SVOIP handles everything I've mentioned, and there's really not a need for a decentralized third party of trust, all you need is an internet connection, and the records stored in the blockchain are more of a liability than an asset.  There's no reason for a Phonecoin to be something of exchangeable value if you can solve the problem with SVOIP for free, which highlights the problem with Phonecoin not really being a "non-coin coin" as Jonald mentioned.

But then I remembered the context of where the idea came from:  Cell phones being spied on by the NSA.  I know that you can buy wifi-only Android phones that are built in with SVOIP and loads of security, but the problem with that is if you don't have wifi, it doesn't work.  And from what I understand of wifi, it's just not suitable in the middle of nowhere; the signal just can't be made to get usable range on that band, or something to that effect.  But the technology behind cell service seems to handle that pretty well.

15 years ago when nationwide cell coverage was just being introduced, you could usually pick up some kind of cell signal if you were close to the interstate in the middle of Nebraska, but it would go off of Uncle Bob's cell tower, and he would charge the phone co. like $2 a minute.  Now there are tons of nationwide cell providers, including a whole lot of prepaid, semi anonymous providers, and I'm guessing they have some sort of agreement for tower usage.

Bottom line is, cell service can not be carried out P2P, because a trusted third party is needed to run the cell towers.  There are a lot of private individuals that do that already like the aforementioned Uncle Bob, or my old boss at a tire shop that rented out a cell tower behind his shop.  So this is how I'm sort of envisioning "Cellphonecoin:"

• Miners run cell towers.  Thinking some sort of hybrid small cell tower mated to an ASIC to handle the transactions
• Mining is incentivized just like any other crypto by having a market determined value
• Users buy a Cellphonecoin, which is basically like 100 prepaid minutes, or 100 MB of data
• The advantage of this is probably lower cost, due to similar flattening of the hierarchy and reduction in overhead seen between conventional banks and cryptos
• Another advantage is that the NSA (or any organization for that matter) doesn't have a single target, like Sprint or Verizon to leverage for compliance
• Yet another advantage is the system is quite well suited to have strong encryption built-in

It's all good brother.

I'm not really radical about a five-year old coin (Bitcion), but I'm absolutely religious about a three-year old coin (Namecoin), that is just really coming into being able to do what it was made for.

And I'm not a young pup either. I'll be 50 in May.

MWD

haha

Not at all.

"the real answer is more coins". I'm with you.

But, when you talk about the use of blockchain to solve other  problems than coins (if I understand you), it reminds me ethereum. I'm not with ethereum, I'm just waiting to see how it goes.

Ok, I like doge, and I'm with litecoin and bitcoin. I'm not a zealot coiner
It's quite alrigth to me if you don't like dogecoin. To be honest, I think a little weird to be radical about a 5 years old coin, maye because I'm an old guy. 

(sorry my english, I'm a foreigner)

lol.

You tell me. Tell me in your own words what that project is and how far along it is.

I think you're just cranky because you think I insulted doggy coins and you're a fan and invested.

MWD

You talk a lot but... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you're talking about something very close to the ethereum project.

Doesn't the Ethereum project plan to eliminate all other coins? I've heard that and heard it called "one blockchain to rule them all."

I don't like the idea of a central authority for blockchain-based systems. I think the distributed networks should themselves be distributed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the videos on Ethereum seem to be so far reaching it's kind of hard to understand if it can/will be done. Whereas Bitcoin and Namecoin are very easy to understand, for me, at least on a surface level. I've also met people who are absolutely evangelical about Ethereum who cannot for the life of them explain it. I'm not saying anything against it, at all, but I've yet to have someone explain it cogently. Also, where is it at in development? I know there's some code, but last I checked (about a month ago) it looked like another coin with a few lines added. I'm not saying "it's not there"....there are too many projects to vet line by line, especially working on my own full-time project (which is very easy to define, and is out now).

But I sure hear a lot about the healing magical powers of Ethereum to revolutionize the world, without a lot of people really knowing what it is or where it's at in existing as a product/project, or when it will be ready for full testing. Kind of reminds me of the "Gabo" phenomena on the Simpsons maybe.

When a friend I know calls me and said "I've installed Ethereum, it kicks ass, let me help you get it running", I'll be excited and drop whatever I'm doing. Like three years ago when someone did that for me with Bitcoin.

I'd love Ethereum to do everything everyone says it will do.

I'm not criticizing it for not being fully formed. I'm suggesting things that are far less fully formed in this thread. But people talk about Ethereum in hushed, excited tones, and talk like it's already running everywhere. Is it? And is it "one blockchain to rule them all"?

I think the real answer is more coins, not less coins. Not just for security, not just for new uses, but even just on a user level / value for marketing the idea of coins. For instance, I think Dogecoin is silly and have even turned down offers of people donating some to me because I can't be bothered to run yet another wallet. But it's important because it's "friendly" and it will be many non-technically minded peoples' first coin.

MWD

I had to look that up, and I tend to agree.  Although from what I've seen Ethereum largely covers the "how," whereas this post seems to be focusing on what it could be used for.


This was another motive for the Ethereum project as well.  As they described, if the blockchain gets into the terabyte range it would still be possible to use lite wallets for Bitcoin itself, although it would be impossible (or at least impractical) to try to parse other data out of it.  Unless of course you have a separate lite wallet server set up to parse that out of the complete blockchain, but by the time you've done that, why not just have a unique block chain?  Seems to work decently enough for all the other cryptos anyway.


Yeah, that's kind of the half-baked part of it at the moment.  As I was going to sleep I had it almost worked out in my head, but 16 hours later, you know how that goes lol.  I'm thinking it would borrow heavily from Namecoin, as if I'm guessing correctly once a DNS is assigned that portion of the coin is "spent?"  So it would still be mined, miners would be paid in Phonecoin that could be exchanged.  The block reward/inflation curve may be interesting to work out, as it would need to be dependent on the no. of phone coins that are un-spent and actively in circulation vs. those that are "spent" and destroyed.  Perhaps have a target no. of coins to be in circulation, and adjust block rewards based on the need to replenish coins that have been spent?  Just some brainstorming.

First you would need to define the difference between:

blockchain technology based project (like BitMessage for Messaging, Twister for Twitter, ...)
and
your "non coin-coins"?

Maybe what you talk about, wanna do and call "non coin-coins" is basically just using blockchain tech for other projects like above.

If it is not the same, you must explaine to us.

Which blockchain are you talking about? Putting everything in the world that anyone wants to ever do will make the BTC chain, or even the NMC blockchain too huge to easily use. And they both have tight limits on character count for included information, which make them unusable for document storage.

I'm not talking about making "a new coin." I'm talking about making hundreds of thousands of new coins, each customized to a specific function. And doing them on a private network (or even intranet) would make the 51% issue a non-issue.

I did see that you forked it off of the voting thread but brought up voting for small projects or businesses in your OP. Why create a new coin that is more vulnerable to a "51% attack" when we already have a very secure blockchain that can be used for this? And the blockchain can be used for not only voting but for business budgets, decision making, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you're talking about something very close to the ethereum project.

See my above comment about SETI project.

MWD

Yeah but phone coin has value still. It's not a noncoin coin.   Must have value to incentivize miners or in other words to participate as nodes.  Or... Find some other reason why nodes should participate (think TOR)

I like it.
MWD