The charge-back will be handled by the Bitcoin Bank issuing the cheque. In fact, this will work more like an escrow between the payer and receiver, where the bank acts as an agent. The cheque will states certain condition for the escrow process.
Currently this is an open-source project, and my first goal is to complete the standards/protocols and make a demo system. The demo will need a bank to issue the cheques, and one part of the project is to create the source code for that bank.
I have been thinking of raising funds to put the demo bank in big-scale operation. However, running banks is not within my core competence, so I would need to have some business partners joining me and staff up a bigger team. Raising funds is certainly a part of that process, and BnkOfTheFuture could be a good place to start.
Topic: New open-source project - bitcoincheque.org (Read 1959 times)
Quote
The Bitcoin Cheque will solve most of the weaknesses Bitcoins has, in respect to the user experience:
[...]
It will offer a money-back guarantee
A built-in chargeback?[...]
It will offer a money-back guarantee
Overall your idea seems to be interesting.
Have you ever thought about raising some money to develop it further?
There are some ways here: https://bnktothefuture.com/apply-for-finance
I have received some comments and questions regarding banks, and whatever bitcoin should avoid using bank all together.
Many people, and in particular Bitcoin enthusiasts, me included, dislike very much today's banking industry. But I think this dislike is often based on the wrong root causes. IMO the problem lies at the politicians and central bankers printing money. The banks lobby the politicians to print money and bail them out in troubled times or make regulations to avoid newcomers in entering the market. All this is made by the banks lobbying the politicians and that is IMO corruption. I think it is a scam that American politicians bailed out banks for $700 billion tax-payers dollars, and in the next years the same bankers celebrated by giving themselves big bonuses. I'm not an American, but located in Europe, but we have the same kind of problem here.
I think that in the coming era of Bitcoins (and other cryptos) there still will be a need for banking services. For instance, people would like to have interest on their savings, and others need capital for investments. However, these banks will have very different operating constrain compared to today's corrupt banks. Bitcoins can not be printed like fiat currencies. Out of that simple fact, it will not be possible to create money to bail out a failed Bitcoin bank. This will force the bank to be very carefully with its user's deposits, and only invest in sound project or require enough interest to cover the risk. Not as today where banks are throwing fiats at everybody for zero interest.
We see this already today. There exists a few bitcoin banks, and some of them are offering a quiet decent interest. I don't trust all of them, and have made deposits to only a a few of them. But that's an important point, only banks that are reasonable should be trusted and will attract capital. Banks taking too big risk, wasting and losing its capital on silly projects, will be distrusted and avoided by users.
The Bitcoin Cheque aims to create system for small open-source bitcoin banks. The project is working on setting up a https://www.bitcoindemobank.com, running as a Wordpress plugin. This will literally enables all persons running a Wordpress server to install the plugin and be a bank for their friends and family. The Bitcoin Cheque can be used to transfer money to other banks or other person accepting the cheque, or to make instant payment. This way bitcoins will be much more usable than it is today. The cheque has many in-built features that will make it easy to start using.
Many people, and in particular Bitcoin enthusiasts, me included, dislike very much today's banking industry. But I think this dislike is often based on the wrong root causes. IMO the problem lies at the politicians and central bankers printing money. The banks lobby the politicians to print money and bail them out in troubled times or make regulations to avoid newcomers in entering the market. All this is made by the banks lobbying the politicians and that is IMO corruption. I think it is a scam that American politicians bailed out banks for $700 billion tax-payers dollars, and in the next years the same bankers celebrated by giving themselves big bonuses. I'm not an American, but located in Europe, but we have the same kind of problem here.
I think that in the coming era of Bitcoins (and other cryptos) there still will be a need for banking services. For instance, people would like to have interest on their savings, and others need capital for investments. However, these banks will have very different operating constrain compared to today's corrupt banks. Bitcoins can not be printed like fiat currencies. Out of that simple fact, it will not be possible to create money to bail out a failed Bitcoin bank. This will force the bank to be very carefully with its user's deposits, and only invest in sound project or require enough interest to cover the risk. Not as today where banks are throwing fiats at everybody for zero interest.
We see this already today. There exists a few bitcoin banks, and some of them are offering a quiet decent interest. I don't trust all of them, and have made deposits to only a a few of them. But that's an important point, only banks that are reasonable should be trusted and will attract capital. Banks taking too big risk, wasting and losing its capital on silly projects, will be distrusted and avoided by users.
The Bitcoin Cheque aims to create system for small open-source bitcoin banks. The project is working on setting up a https://www.bitcoindemobank.com, running as a Wordpress plugin. This will literally enables all persons running a Wordpress server to install the plugin and be a bank for their friends and family. The Bitcoin Cheque can be used to transfer money to other banks or other person accepting the cheque, or to make instant payment. This way bitcoins will be much more usable than it is today. The cheque has many in-built features that will make it easy to start using.
Ill be saving this one to keep up with it.
Interesting, but I half apprehensive as I know it will work. (Not wanting to be pessimistic.)
Hello again all Bitcoin enthusiasts!
This is an update from the Bitcoin Cheque project.
The project hasn't died, but is rolling on. It has been almost a year since I posted a message here, so I guess it’s time to give you some news.
I have created a prototype system that hopefully can provide a initial demonstration of one-click instant payment using a cheque.
The system consists of the following:
- Demonstration bank that can issue Bitcoin Cheques, www.bitcoindemobank.com
- Banking App that will handle the payment for the user/visitor/customer. This is made as an plugin to bi installed in your browser. Currently only extension for Chrome/Chromium has been developed.
- A demonstration site offering some content and requesting the visitor to make a payment, www.payperpageclick.com
To see a demonstration, the easiest way is to start at www.payperpageclick.com
Click on the demonstration pages. When no banking app has been installed, you will be re-directed to the bank. Here you can register for an account, and optionally install the banking app. The app is downloaded from the Chrome Marketplace.
If you don't have chrome, you can still pay from the bank, and then you will be redirected back to the paid page.
Help wanted!
As time pass, I realize this is a quite enormous undertaking. One important thing that is still missing is bank functionality to actual make the Bitcoin transaction. The bank is implemented as a Wordpress plugin written in PHP. There exist some Bitcoin libraries out there that can make transaction. I have successfully tested BitWasp running localhost. However, none of my remote servers have GMP installed for PHP, which BitWast relies on. I have not decided what or how to overcome this, several options exist. For details, see the github issue list.
The whole project is organized around bitcoincheque.org and code and specifications are stored on Github: https://github.com/bitcoincheque
Help is highly appreciated for coding, review, advisory, testing, or just blogging and discussing ideas. I will in the coming weeks prioritize to complete the specifications and protocols, and hopefully this will make it easier for other in the project to contribute.
This is an update from the Bitcoin Cheque project.
The project hasn't died, but is rolling on. It has been almost a year since I posted a message here, so I guess it’s time to give you some news.
I have created a prototype system that hopefully can provide a initial demonstration of one-click instant payment using a cheque.
The system consists of the following:
- Demonstration bank that can issue Bitcoin Cheques, www.bitcoindemobank.com
- Banking App that will handle the payment for the user/visitor/customer. This is made as an plugin to bi installed in your browser. Currently only extension for Chrome/Chromium has been developed.
- A demonstration site offering some content and requesting the visitor to make a payment, www.payperpageclick.com
To see a demonstration, the easiest way is to start at www.payperpageclick.com
Click on the demonstration pages. When no banking app has been installed, you will be re-directed to the bank. Here you can register for an account, and optionally install the banking app. The app is downloaded from the Chrome Marketplace.
If you don't have chrome, you can still pay from the bank, and then you will be redirected back to the paid page.
Help wanted!
As time pass, I realize this is a quite enormous undertaking. One important thing that is still missing is bank functionality to actual make the Bitcoin transaction. The bank is implemented as a Wordpress plugin written in PHP. There exist some Bitcoin libraries out there that can make transaction. I have successfully tested BitWasp running localhost. However, none of my remote servers have GMP installed for PHP, which BitWast relies on. I have not decided what or how to overcome this, several options exist. For details, see the github issue list.
The whole project is organized around bitcoincheque.org and code and specifications are stored on Github: https://github.com/bitcoincheque
Help is highly appreciated for coding, review, advisory, testing, or just blogging and discussing ideas. I will in the coming weeks prioritize to complete the specifications and protocols, and hopefully this will make it easier for other in the project to contribute.
I must declare that I am not a developer. When I first read your idea, it sounded like you could use mulit-sig addresses to solve the security issue of your server "holding" coins (your server don't have full control of the coins) and to emulate some sort of signing by the "cheque" owner. If my suggestion is completely wrong, please ignore it.
One thing worth commending is your desire to experiment with ideas.
But the substanse of your proposal doesn't bring any innovation that cannot be achieved by simpler means.
The Bitcoin Bank must be a reputable organization so that both merchants and users can deposit btc in their accounts and not fear losing it.
We already have the likes of Coinbase.
Bitpay can reverse payments if merchant was fraudulent. And if Bitpay also adopts some kind of GreenAddress-like functionality, they can offer true instant transactions.
This checks off everything on your "Features and benefits" list.
Except for maybe security where you propose to store btc in a bank because a bank is less likely to be hacked that one's computer. But who in this age of hardware wallets stores significant amounts of btc on their laptops?
Good luck with your further research.
But the substanse of your proposal doesn't bring any innovation that cannot be achieved by simpler means.
The Bitcoin Bank must be a reputable organization so that both merchants and users can deposit btc in their accounts and not fear losing it.
We already have the likes of Coinbase.
Bitpay can reverse payments if merchant was fraudulent. And if Bitpay also adopts some kind of GreenAddress-like functionality, they can offer true instant transactions.
This checks off everything on your "Features and benefits" list.
Except for maybe security where you propose to store btc in a bank because a bank is less likely to be hacked that one's computer. But who in this age of hardware wallets stores significant amounts of btc on their laptops?
Good luck with your further research.
Could you please advise me how such a signature can be validated? I mean, by reading the cheque content and calculate it with the banks public key, then the merchant can know for sure the cheque is not altered?
Yes - it is very easy to validate a signature provided you have the "banks" public key (which I presume each merchant would have or could get).
If you are familiar with the "message signing" in Bitcoin Core then basically that's the method.
Assuming that the "bank" issues the cheque then it should be trivial for it to "sign it" (I'm not sure exactly how much your concept is trying to emulate traditional cheques).
I am assuming that the workflow is like this:
1) User wants to buy something.
2) User creates a cheque (which is actually created by their "bank" for them under the covers).
3) User sends the cheque to the merchant (who can immediately verify the signature before even bothering to contact the "bank").
If step 2 doesn't exist (in the way I've described it) then merchants could be attacked with fake cheques which would also become an indirect attack on the "banks" that are trying to verify the cheques for them.
I am assuming that the workflow is like this:
1) User wants to buy something.
2) User creates a cheque (which is actually created by their "bank" for them under the covers).
3) User sends the cheque to the merchant (who can immediately verify the signature before even bothering to contact the "bank").
If step 2 doesn't exist (in the way I've described it) then merchants could be attacked with fake cheques which would also become an indirect attack on the "banks" that are trying to verify the cheques for them.
You are right in this, I did not see that problem myself. The cheques definitely must be protected against this, and digital signatures is probably the way to do it. Thanks for pointing it out :-)
Could you please advise me how such a signature can be validated? I mean, by reading the cheque content and calculate it with the banks public key, then the merchant can know for sure the cheque is not altered?
The name "cheque" was the first that come into my mind, but other names may be more appropriate for it. morantis asked for the diff with voucher, and maybe "Bitcoin Voucher" works better?
I think "voucher" is much better actually - and fits in with things like "green addresses" that have come before.
I just decided to kick-off an open-source project, and hopefully somebody else sees some potential in this.
It's hard to know if it will have potential but your thinking is not without merit (the two problems of confirmation timing and tx reversal are what really prevents Bitcoin from being used as any sort of replacement for traditional payment systems).
EDIT: I would reconsider the term "cheque" as I think that cheques are nearing obsolescence.
Bitcoin truely has some issue with confirmation times and tx reversal. This is two problems I hope the cheque will resolve.
The name "cheque" was the first that come into my mind, but other names may be more appropriate for it. morantis asked for the diff with voucher, and maybe "Bitcoin Voucher" works better?
Assuming that the "bank" issues the cheque then it should be trivial for it to "sign it" (I'm not sure exactly how much your concept is trying to emulate traditional cheques).
I am assuming that the workflow is like this:
1) User wants to buy something.
2) User creates a cheque (which is actually created by their "bank" for them under the covers).
3) User sends the cheque to the merchant (who can immediately verify the signature before even bothering to contact the "bank").
If step 2 doesn't exist (in the way I've described it) then merchants could be attacked with fake cheques which would also become an indirect attack on the "banks" that are trying to verify the cheques for them.
I am assuming that the workflow is like this:
1) User wants to buy something.
2) User creates a cheque (which is actually created by their "bank" for them under the covers).
3) User sends the cheque to the merchant (who can immediately verify the signature before even bothering to contact the "bank").
If step 2 doesn't exist (in the way I've described it) then merchants could be attacked with fake cheques which would also become an indirect attack on the "banks" that are trying to verify the cheques for them.
I think the "cheque standard" (http://bitcoincheque.org/standards/bitcoin-cheque-standard/) should probably include a digital signature to reduce potential DoS attacks from "fake cheques" (without a digital signature presumably you'd have to contact the "bank" to verify the cheque).
Hi CIYAM,
I have been thinking of digital signature myself. I don't have the deep knowledge such security stuff, so I would very much appreciated if somebody could have a look in this and contribute with some advice.
From my own "thinking" I have design the cheque system in that an issued cheque will be sent through all parties (Bitcoin Bank -> customer -> merchant -> Bitcoin Bank). The last step is for the merchant to validate the cheque agains the banks copy, and if mismatch is detected, then something bad has happened. The sending of the cheque must be through secure link, to prevent men-in-the-middle attack. But I may have overlooked something here, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
I have tried to explain it here:
http://bitcoincheque.org/concept/bitcoin-qheque-banking/
I just decided to kick-off an open-source project, and hopefully somebody else sees some potential in this.
It's hard to know if it will have potential but your thinking is not without merit (the two problems of confirmation timing and tx reversal are what really prevents Bitcoin from being used as any sort of replacement for traditional payment systems).
EDIT: I would reconsider the term "cheque" as I think that cheques are nearing obsolescence.
How is this project going alive? Is there any serious bitcoin bank ? But I admire you because you are doing an open source project.
Tanks for the feedback:)
I have been thinking about the Bitcoin Cheque for a while and believes it has some features that really could make Bitcoin easier to use.
I just decided to kick-off an open-source project, and hopefully somebody else sees some potential in this.
I think the "cheque standard" (http://bitcoincheque.org/standards/bitcoin-cheque-standard/) should probably include a digital signature to reduce potential DoS attacks from "fake cheques" (without a digital signature presumably you'd have to contact the "bank" to verify the cheque).
How is this project going alive? Is there any serious bitcoin bank ? But I admire you because you are doing an open source project.
Voucher and cheque is mostly the same. I see a voucher as more like a gift card.
The idea behind the Bitcoin Cheque, is to let a customer make a online purchase and pay with Bitcoins from his account in a "Bitcoin Bank". By doing so, the merchant does not have to wait for the transactions to be confirmation. He can later collect the Bitcoins at the bank.
The idea behind the Bitcoin Cheque, is to let a customer make a online purchase and pay with Bitcoins from his account in a "Bitcoin Bank". By doing so, the merchant does not have to wait for the transactions to be confirmation. He can later collect the Bitcoins at the bank.
Ok, just asking, not being mean, lol.
Voucher and cheque is mostly the same. I see a voucher as more like a gift card.
The idea behind the Bitcoin Cheque, is to let a customer make a online purchase and pay with Bitcoins from his account in a "Bitcoin Bank". By doing so, the merchant does not have to wait for the transactions to be confirmation. He can later collect the Bitcoins at the bank.
The idea behind the Bitcoin Cheque, is to let a customer make a online purchase and pay with Bitcoins from his account in a "Bitcoin Bank". By doing so, the merchant does not have to wait for the transactions to be confirmation. He can later collect the Bitcoins at the bank.
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