New York wants to regulate Bitcoin - page 2.

ZKRiNG

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Quote from: davidpbrown on January 31, 2014, 07:01:13 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 31, 2014, 06:58:22 AM

Price seems pretty stable to me at 950. Until the next ramp if course. Cheesy

Yes, I was thinking if Amazon allowed payments, then flux; but I expect that would happen parralleled by easy options to everyone to buy coin.

If they don't offer any kind of difference on the price why mainstream people will trade fiat for BTC pay the commission and buy the item they want. I still thinking its needed any economic attractive to the mainstream people.

davidpbrown

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Vires in Numeris

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 31, 2014, 06:58:22 AM

Price seems pretty stable to me at 950. Until the next ramp if course. Cheesy

Yes, I was thinking if Amazon allowed payments, then flux; but I expect that would happen parralleled by easy options to everyone to buy coin.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: davidpbrown on January 31, 2014, 06:49:19 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 31, 2014, 06:38:20 AM

The atms are going to play a huge role in this.

Now getting a hold of some coin is trivial. Liquidity is going to improve substantially.

The promise of ZipZap CashCoin in the UK looks even simpler than ATMs.

Obviously, people need to be able to both buy AND spend bitcoin easily, for this to go mainstream. Also, perhaps worth noting the price of BTC won't be unaffected by merchants initially opting for immediate exchanging BTC to fiat; only later when merchants hold some coin and if investors look to BTC for longer term return, will we see a true stable value found.

Snapcard promises to buy you anything being sold on the Internet. Gyft card is right in there as well.

Snapcard just bought a new Mercedes for someone. The only way it gets better is when brick and mortar starts mass acceptanc. It's coming.

Price seems pretty stable to me at 950. Until the next ramp if course. Cheesy

davidpbrown

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Quote from: cypherdoc on January 31, 2014, 06:38:20 AM

The atms are going to play a huge role in this.

Now getting a hold of some coin is trivial. Liquidity is going to improve substantially.

The promise of ZipZap CashCoin in the UK looks even simpler than ATMs.

Obviously, people need to be able to both buy AND spend bitcoin easily, for this to go mainstream. Also, perhaps worth noting the price of BTC won't be unaffected by merchants initially opting for immediate exchanging BTC to fiat; only later when merchants hold some coin and if investors look to BTC for longer term return, will we see a true stable value found.

retrend

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Everyone wants to regulate bitcoin. Beyond the anti money laundering know your customer stuff that exchanges already have to do, I don't see what other options there is, other than making it a crime to use them.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: davidpbrown on January 31, 2014, 06:34:30 AM

Quote from: CoinCidental on January 31, 2014, 06:23:27 AM

its impossible to regulate a decentralised worldwide network
let them try

It's possible for them to frustrate it though. If they see and understand the opportunity, then that is substaintially different to them seeing some random risk from something new they don't understand.

Key to wider adoption, will be that it's simple access. If you can walk to your local corner store and give money in exchange for the confirmation that transfers BTC to you, then that's a big difference from what we have now with exchanges that are rather a gamble to use.

If regulation is simply a requirement for KYC as people move in and out of fiat, then that's as expected. If regulation is instead made in error to pander to the concerns of ye olde banks losing market share, then that could be a real problem relative to what Bitcoin can offer the wider economy. The NY Hearings panel seem to have made key points and the questions asked were sensible, so I hope other regulators worldwide are becoming wise to what Bitcoin is beyond just currency|commodity.

The atms are going to play a huge role in this.

Now getting a hold of some coin is trivial. Liquidity is going to improve substantially.

davidpbrown

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Vires in Numeris

Quote from: CoinCidental on January 31, 2014, 06:23:27 AM

its impossible to regulate a decentralised worldwide network
let them try

It's possible for them to frustrate it though. If they see and understand the opportunity, then that is substaintially different to them seeing some random risk from something new they don't understand.

Key to wider adoption, will be that it's simple access. If you can walk to your local corner store and give money in exchange for the confirmation that transfers BTC to you, then that's a big difference from what we have now with exchanges that are rather a gamble to use.

If regulation is simply a requirement for KYC as people move in and out of fiat, then that's as expected. If regulation is instead made in error to pander to the concerns of ye olde banks losing market share, then that could be a real problem relative to what Bitcoin can offer the wider economy. The NY Hearings panel seem to have made key points and the questions asked were sensible, so I hope other regulators worldwide are becoming wise to what Bitcoin is beyond just currency|commodity.

CoinCidental

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its impossible to regulate a decentralised worldwide network
let them try

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Honeypot on January 31, 2014, 06:15:21 AM

Remember, one may not be able to fully regulate the crypto, but they sure as hell can put the foot down on those who use them.

In the end, 'human factor' is decidedly weak in the internet community. Just look at snowden or charlie and other cryto-jesus wannabes.

Might want to consider reality very carefully before thinking you can try to off somebody while sipping soy latte and typing on a laptop in starbucks.

Fincen had their chance to put the foot down on miners and users today.

Nope. They're safe. Game over.

Honeypot

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Remember, one may not be able to fully regulate the crypto, but they sure as hell can put the foot down on those who use them.

In the end, 'human factor' is decidedly weak in the internet community. Just look at snowden or charlie and other cryto-jesus wannabes.

Might want to consider reality very carefully before thinking you can try to off somebody while sipping soy latte and typing on a laptop in starbucks.

BitBits

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Considering they already have a proof of Bitcoins being used for illegal activities (Silk Road), they will regulate the shit out of Bitcoins.

Exchanger will probably (just like brokers and banks), be obligated to keep records, report big transactions and "suspicious" activity. From that point on things are going to get worse for Bitcoin user in terms of privacy if compared to cash.

When cash is on hands, you can spend it anywhere you want for anything you want without a trace. When BTC is "on hands" and since user's BTC address will be known to regulating authority, they will know exactly where user spends bitcoins and they do not need a warrant for that, it is all in the public ledger.

cypherdoc

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I only finished watching the hearings yesterday and they turned out much better than I thought.

Lawsky was much more level headed than some of the public comments he's made. I think there's a good possibility he acts much like the rest of us when we dug into the technology for the first time. Amazed. He mentioned once during the testimony about how his head was exploding. That is not a comment made by someone not impressed b by something.

People in his position run the risk of appearing like a fool or a tool for the rest of history by going up against something like Bitcoin. The analogy of those against the Internet itself decades ago is not lost on him I'm sure.

empoweoqwj

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Quote from: Proteus123 on January 31, 2014, 12:34:42 AM

I laugh at government attempts to regulate Bitcoin. What are they going to do? I can't see a way for it to work unless they forced the devs of the wallet client to their will, but then you could just go through another wallet. Flawed thinking.

I wish I could laugh, but the US government could kill bitcoin practically stone dead if it wanted to. What would happen to bitcoin price if online retailers in US suddenly couldn't take it? Where would all the transaction fees that miners will need to survive in the future come from? Narcotic sales? We all saw how that ended Sad

Bitcoin needs regulation, just sensible regulation. Whether that happens or not I don't know. It certainly won't happen in Russia or China. US and Europe and rest of Asia have good chance.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: Proteus123 on January 31, 2014, 12:34:42 AM

I laugh at government attempts to regulate Bitcoin. What are they going to do? I can't see a way for it to work unless they forced the devs of the wallet client to their will, but then you could just go through another wallet. Flawed thinking.

They can order your mom to kick you out of her basement. Thats enough to kill bitcoin........ if all bitcoiners have the same thinking as you do.

cypherdoc

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http://www.villagevoice.com/2013-09-18/news/benjamin-lawsky-new-york-state-department-of-financial-services/

Proteus123

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I laugh at government attempts to regulate Bitcoin. What are they going to do? I can't see a way for it to work unless they forced the devs of the wallet client to their will, but then you could just go through another wallet. Flawed thinking.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: BTCisthefuture on January 30, 2014, 11:53:33 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on January 30, 2014, 11:43:49 PM

Quote from: BTCisthefuture on January 30, 2014, 11:36:27 PM

I Watched both days of the hearings in New York (You can watch them here: http://www.totalwebcasting.com/view/?id=nysdfs ). I wasn't too concerned with the hearings. To me I walked away with the imrpession that yes bitcoin will be regulated but not over regulated to the point that it hurts innovation or the growth of bitcoin.

Why because a regulator, on TV said so?

A regulator's idea of not over regulating and the entire rest of the world's idea of not over regulating are two different things.

I'm no expert on obtaining a money transmitter license but sure that sounds pretty harsh... with that said, as bitcoin becomes more mainstream and more people use it. The days of a regular joe with little finincal backign being able to start up an exchange are long gone. You want to be something like an exchange that handles hundreds of millions in transactions then youll need quite a lot of finincal and business bakcing to do so (see coinbase or circle for example).

Is it perfect...of course not.

Neither coinbase nor circle have a money transmitter license in any state. I am not saying they need to (that is for their legal counsel to decide) just pointing out they don't have one.

Did it occur to you that regulation often is used by big entities (think banks, PayPal, WU) are a very cost effective mechanism of killing innovation? The same entities which donate heavily to the campaigns of public officials, who then appoint the regulators who write the regulation and make sure to not "over-regulate". With the right "donations" the Chases, Western Unions, and VISAs of the world could put the barrier so high that it takes licensure off the table for entities with less than a billion dollar market cap. That would make the only legal players in the US Bitcoin space ... the exact same players in the US financial space. Regulation hard at work protecting ... the bottom line of old money enterprises.

Will that happen? Who knows however I wouldn't be so naive to think NY is looking to pass "smart regulation" just because a suit said so on TV. Look at the rest of the licenses in NY to get an idea of their track record on smart regulation (liquor license?, taxi medallion?, etc). Also what would he say "most likely we are clumsily going to set the bar so high as too kill off innovation in NY and the United States and drive the revenue, jobs, and innovation overseas"?

I will leave you with words from the horses mouth

Quote from: New York Department of Financial Services Superintendent Benjamin Lawsky

"We're always going to choose to squelch money launderers...even if it prevents 1,000 flowers from blooming"

BTCisthefuture

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on January 30, 2014, 11:43:49 PM

Quote from: BTCisthefuture on January 30, 2014, 11:36:27 PM

I Watched both days of the hearings in New York (You can watch them here: http://www.totalwebcasting.com/view/?id=nysdfs ). I wasn't too concerned with the hearings. To me I walked away with the imrpession that yes bitcoin will be regulated but not over regulated to the point that it hurts innovation or the growth of bitcoin.

Why because a regulator, on TV said so?

A regulator's idea of not over regulating and the entire rest of the world's idea of not over regulating are two different things.

I'm no expert on obtaining a money transmitter license but sure that sounds pretty harsh... with that said, as bitcoin becomes more mainstream and more people use it. The days of a regular joe with little finincal backign being able to start up an exchange are long gone. You want to be something like an exchange that handles hundreds of millions in transactions then youll need quite a lot of finincal and business bakcing to do so (see coinbase or circle for example).

Is it perfect...of course not.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: BTCisthefuture on January 30, 2014, 11:36:27 PM

I Watched both days of the hearings in New York (You can watch them here: http://www.totalwebcasting.com/view/?id=nysdfs ). I wasn't too concerned with the hearings. To me I walked away with the imrpession that yes bitcoin will be regulated but not over regulated to the point that it hurts innovation or the growth of bitcoin.

Why because a regulator, on TV said so?

A regulator's idea of not over regulating and the entire rest of the world's idea of not over regulating are two different things.

RGBKey

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rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt

They're going to have a lot of difficulty regulating it.

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