Newbie Question | Bitcointalksearch.org

grndzero

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Quote from: ryepdx on March 31, 2011, 04:10:39 PM

Quote from: LMGTFY on March 31, 2011, 03:52:08 PM

I can't speak for banks in general, but software developers within banks (etc) tend to just continue SI prefixes - cent, mille, micro, nano.

This could explain my preference for SI notation. :-3

Edit:

Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 03:14:31 PM

In fact I was pointing out that no one had thought of what to call anything below .01.

Actually, we have: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units

There's just some disagreement about whether we should really use the units on the wiki or not. Especially that bitcoin-bong one... Tongue

Well then, question answered. Thanks. I didn't see it.

*Awww c'mon .. let the stoners have their fun. It's not like they don't see innuendo everywhere anyway.

ryepdx

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Quote from: LMGTFY on March 31, 2011, 03:52:08 PM

I can't speak for banks in general, but software developers within banks (etc) tend to just continue SI prefixes - cent, mille, micro, nano.

This could explain my preference for SI notation. :-3

Edit:

Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 03:14:31 PM

In fact I was pointing out that no one had thought of what to call anything below .01.

Actually, we have: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units

There's just some disagreement about whether we should really use the units on the wiki or not. Especially that bitcoin-bong one... Tongue

LMGTFY

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Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 03:41:01 PM

Quote from: LMGTFY on March 31, 2011, 03:21:06 PM

Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 03:14:31 PM

Again, nope, just pointing out the face that the terminology doesn't exist. And I have no problem thinking. In fact I was pointing out that no one had thought of what to call anything below .01. If someone said that the adopted standard was "point zero zero zero one" bitcoins I would have no problem with that. I think there could be a better and simpler way to represent it than that.

A thousandth of a currency unit is called a "mill" or "mille". Same as a tenth of a percent is a "per mille".

Yeah, banks love that stuff, especially with loan rates. I meant more along the lines of going down all 8 places. Not something that has to be addressed now but I'm intellectually curious since it exists. It would also have to be addressed for any type of standardization and/or mainstream adoption.

I can't speak for banks in general, but software developers within banks (etc) tend to just continue SI prefixes - cent, mille, micro, nano.

grndzero

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Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: LMGTFY on March 31, 2011, 03:21:06 PM

Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 03:14:31 PM

Again, nope, just pointing out the face that the terminology doesn't exist. And I have no problem thinking. In fact I was pointing out that no one had thought of what to call anything below .01. If someone said that the adopted standard was "point zero zero zero one" bitcoins I would have no problem with that. I think there could be a better and simpler way to represent it than that.

A thousandth of a currency unit is called a "mill" or "mille". Same as a tenth of a percent is a "per mille".

Yeah, banks love that stuff, especially with loan rates. I meant more along the lines of going down all 8 places. Not something that has to be addressed now but I'm intellectually curious since it exists. It would also have to be addressed for any type of standardization and/or mainstream adoption.

LMGTFY

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Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 03:14:31 PM

Again, nope, just pointing out the face that the terminology doesn't exist. And I have no problem thinking. In fact I was pointing out that no one had thought of what to call anything below .01. If someone said that the adopted standard was "point zero zero zero one" bitcoins I would have no problem with that. I think there could be a better and simpler way to represent it than that.

A thousandth of a currency unit is called a "mill" or "mille". Same as a tenth of a percent is a "per mille".

grndzero

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Activity: 392

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Quote

I never once bitched at you for having a question about 'what are the names? or what is it called? etc' .. I bitched at you because your being stupid ABOUT the names ... it's not what you want because it's DIFFERENT .. then yes .. I'm bitching at you for that ...

I never said anything about what I wanted it to be. I was working within the parameters I was given to point out the inconvenience of lack of terminology. I hope it's spelled out for you now.

Quote

but if your just complaining about the current name (as you are) BECAUSE you may have to THINK .. then hell yes I'm going to bitch you out for letting yourself get hit by the STUPID STICK.

Again, nope, just pointing out the fact that the terminology doesn't exist. And I have no problem thinking. In fact I was pointing out that no one had thought of what to call anything below .01. If someone said that the adopted standard was "point zero zero zero one" bitcoins I would have no problem with that. I think there could be a better and simpler way to represent it than that.

Quote

There are hundreds of currencies (and sub-units) on Earth ... Euro, Yen, Pound, Quid and MANY others .. but for some reason ONLY the U.S. and Canadian people seam to be to limited and narrow minded to expand themselves to understand that there is MORE on Earth than themselves and some of it is actually DIVERSE.

I am familiar with most of the worlds major currencies and their value relative to mine have possessed a few different ones in my lifetime.

Thanks

river

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Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 02:38:24 PM

Quote from: ryepdx on March 31, 2011, 01:40:47 PM

Holy cow. Combative much? Grndzero is not talking at all about value here. They're talking about terminology. It's the aesthetics and practicality of not having a quick and easy-to-remember way of saying "point zero zero zero zero five bitcoins" and the like.

I personally like the idea of using SI terminology.

Edit:
SI terminology link FTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix#List_of_SI_prefixes

Thus 0.000001 bitcoin would be 1 microcoin. (Or micro-bitcoin if you want to be explicit.)

I'm glad someone got the gist of my posts somewhere in there. Since I am a newbie and was just curious I will leave it up to the community to discuss. I don't really have a preference either way. It was just kinda of a general bugging feeling of not being able to quantify.

I never once bitched at you for having a question about 'what are the names? or what is it called? etc' .. I bitched at you because your being stupid ABOUT the names ... it's not what you want because it's DIFFERENT .. then yes .. I'm bitching at you for that ...

if you have suggestion about new names for different units .. GREAT!!!

but if your just complaining about the current name (as you are) BECAUSE you may have to THINK .. then hell yes I'm going to bitch you out for letting yourself get hit by the STUPID STICK.

There are hundreds of currencies (and sub-units) on Earth ... Euro, Yen, Pound, Quid and MANY others .. but for some reason ONLY the U.S. and Canadian people seam to be to limited and narrow minded to expand themselves to understand that there is MORE on Earth than themselves and some of it is actually DIVERSE.

grndzero

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Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ryepdx on March 31, 2011, 01:40:47 PM

Holy cow. Combative much? Grndzero is not talking at all about value here. They're talking about terminology. It's the aesthetics and practicality of not having a quick and easy-to-remember way of saying "point zero zero zero zero five bitcoins" and the like.

I personally like the idea of using SI terminology.

Edit:
SI terminology link FTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix#List_of_SI_prefixes

Thus 0.000001 bitcoin would be 1 microcoin. (Or micro-bitcoin if you want to be explicit.)

I'm glad someone got the gist of my posts somewhere in there. Since I am a newbie and was just curious I will leave it up to the community to discuss. I don't really have a preference either way. It was just kinda of a general bugging feeling of not being able to quantify.

N12

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Quote from: theymos on March 31, 2011, 02:05:37 PM

SI prefixes have too many syllables. IMO, the words need to have only one syllable each. You also have to use longer numbers for prefixes after milli when using SI prefixes.

You could just cut out the second one, exactly like centi – it’d be mil, mic, nan etc. What’s the problem with "800 mic"? I think the SI would work just fine.

theymos

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SI prefixes have too many syllables. IMO, the words need to have only one syllable each. You also have to use longer numbers for prefixes after milli when using SI prefixes.

river

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Oh screw the complaining ... just learn something new for once ...
it is quick and easy .. there are terms out there for each unit that are quick and easy to learn and use ...

there ! happy

river

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BIG WORDS .. ow no ... my brain hurts ... ow ...

First, my understanding is it's all relative ... as the value goes up the decimal with simply shift (on the front end) for 'cents' still.

However, even if new terms are not adopted:

Only a stupid, generally, U.S. citizen complains about BIG WORDS with HUNDREDS of currencies on Earth with LOTS of syllables.

So when the Dollar dies soon and they force you, most likely at gun point, to use the 'Amero' and you actually have to USE your brain and learn a NEW NAME (ow no .. my brain .. it's heating up again) .. complain all you want.

Damb what is it with dumb people, that are so stuck in there little bubbles of comfort, that have to complain about anything outside of their TINY little world.
Dude .. don't EVER travel outside of the U.S. or Canada .. you may actually learn something .. and heaven knows .. you brain might melt.

it only takes about a billionth of a volt to have a simple thought .. try not to electrocute yourselves.

ryepdx

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Quote from: river on March 31, 2011, 12:54:35 PM

Your wrong on all accounts. FIAT money is NOT money to begin with .. it is a RECEIPT for money (ie: gold).
Fiat money has keeps LOOSING value because it is created by the TRILLIONS (ie: U.S. dollar) .. it become like SAND or WATER ... just fill your bucket at the local creak .. and your rich ... the problem with that is that it is SO abundant that NO ONE wants it, so you have to give someone an OCEAN to pay for a stamp or a pen .. but if something is limited and precious (see GOLD, SILVER, BITCOIN) then the value is HIGH and you can cut it into far smaller pieces that have great value.

What do YOU not get about that!?

Holy cow. Combative much? Grndzero is not talking at all about value here. They're talking about terminology. It's the aesthetics and practicality of not having a quick and easy-to-remember way of saying "point zero zero zero zero five bitcoins" and the like.

I personally like the idea of using SI terminology.

Edit:
SI terminology link FTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix#List_of_SI_prefixes

Thus 0.000001 bitcoin would be 1 microcoin. (Or micro-bitcoin if you want to be explicit.)

theymos

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There are too many syllables in "satoshi" to make a usable unit. There are already names up to thousandths of currency units:

1 = 1 bitcoin
0.1 = 10 cents bitcoin
0.01 = 1 cent bitcoin
0.001 = 1 mill bitcoin

Then, we can add a new currency name:

0.0001 = 10 bitpiece
0.00001 = 1 bitpiece
0.000001 = 10 cent bitpiece
0.0000001 = 1 cent bitpiece
0.00000001 = 1 mill bitpiece

I think a better way would be to come up with new one-syllable names for divisions smaller than thousandths, though. I'm sure some language has such words.

river

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Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 12:35:42 PM

Quote from: river on March 31, 2011, 11:59:46 AM

Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 11:08:41 AM

bitcent sounds kinda lame I think. especially since that's what I've been mining for the last week until I got some better parts for a mining box. Cheesy

It's gonna be a real problem if the software ever starts carrying it out past 2 decimal places. what do you call .001 bitcoins without sounding nerdy or geeky. 100,000 satoshi's?

Like it or not every established currency has a easily recognizable/understandable representation for whole and fractions of their currency.

I'm not sure why they 8 decimal places was coded into the system, except to for the fact that it will cap around 21 million. If there's a cap then it would somewhat make sense if you started breaking it into smaller pieces.

Not only does it go to equality of representation as well as intrinsic value, but can you image going to the grocery store and in line after someone who just paid $150 for their groceries and the clerk ask you for "point zero zero one five bitcoins" or 150,000 satoshis?

I don't know ... 50~70 years ago a person would go pay for a coffee with Fiat money paying only $0.05 ... 5 cents ... same coffee is over $5.00 dollars today. Can you imagine going to a store and the person in front of you always pays .05 for a coffee while your cost just keeps going up and up and up OVER 100 TIMES THEIRS?? OHHH .. that's right .. it DID!!!!! ..... yes I CAN imagine the bitcoin VALUE .. thanx

First of all it's not the same concept. You are talking about inflated value of currency and goods over a 50 year period. You're talking about hundreds. I'm talking about fractioning into thousand-ths and million-ths. When fiat currencies and values are inflating over time BTC will be going the other way and fractioning.

I would expect anyone here to get the concept. I'm talking about wider adoption. If BTC is not going to inflate/deflate or follow the value of another currency then complete other sections of POS software would have to be written for calculating equivalent value, that cost money, as well as training. A lot of money for mainstream acceptance.

Then you go into a store and buy something.

Clerk: That'll be $xx.xx.
Me: I want to pay with Bitcoins.
Clerk: *Blank stare*
Me: You know, Bitcoins. *holds up Bitcoins accepted here sign*
Clerk: oh yeah .. *fumbles* ... here it is ... it's .0015 bitcoins.? *confused look*
Me: pays with bitcoins somehow

The kid at the local fast food join can't calculate my change back without the computer telling him what it is.

Your wrong on all accounts. FIAT money is NOT money to begin with .. it is a RECEIPT for money (ie: gold).
Fiat money has keeps LOOSING value because it is created by the TRILLIONS (ie: U.S. dollar) .. it become like SAND or WATER ... just fill your bucket at the local creak .. and your rich ... the problem with that is that it is SO abundant that NO ONE wants it, so you have to give someone an OCEAN to pay for a stamp or a pen .. but if something is limited and precious (see GOLD, SILVER, BITCOIN) then the value is HIGH and you can cut it into far smaller pieces that have great value.

What do YOU not get about that!?

grndzero

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: river on March 31, 2011, 11:59:46 AM

Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 11:08:41 AM

bitcent sounds kinda lame I think. especially since that's what I've been mining for the last week until I got some better parts for a mining box. Cheesy

It's gonna be a real problem if the software ever starts carrying it out past 2 decimal places. what do you call .001 bitcoins without sounding nerdy or geeky. 100,000 satoshi's?

Like it or not every established currency has a easily recognizable/understandable representation for whole and fractions of their currency.

I'm not sure why they 8 decimal places was coded into the system, except to for the fact that it will cap around 21 million. If there's a cap then it would somewhat make sense if you started breaking it into smaller pieces.

Not only does it go to equality of representation as well as intrinsic value, but can you image going to the grocery store and in line after someone who just paid $150 for their groceries and the clerk ask you for "point zero zero one five bitcoins" or 150,000 satoshis?

I don't know ... 50~70 years ago a person would go pay for a coffee with Fiat money paying only $0.05 ... 5 cents ... same coffee is over $5.00 dollars today. Can you imagine going to a store and the person in front of you always pays .05 for a coffee while your cost just keeps going up and up and up OVER 100 TIMES THEIRS?? OHHH .. that's right .. it DID!!!!! ..... yes I CAN imagine the bitcoin VALUE .. thanx

First of all it's not the same concept. You are talking about inflated value of currency and goods over a 50 year period. You're talking about hundreds. I'm talking about fractioning into thousand-ths and million-ths. When fiat currencies and values are inflating over time BTC will be going the other way and fractioning.

I would expect anyone here to get the concept. I'm talking about wider adoption. If BTC is not going to inflate/deflate or follow the value of another currency then complete other sections of POS software would have to be written for calculating equivalent value, that cost money, as well as training. A lot of money for mainstream acceptance.

Then you go into a store and buy something.

Clerk: That'll be $xx.xx.
Me: I want to pay with Bitcoins.
Clerk: *Blank stare*
Me: You know, Bitcoins. *holds up Bitcoins accepted here sign*
Clerk: oh yeah .. *fumbles* ... here it is ... it's .0015 bitcoins.? *confused look*
Me: pays with bitcoins somehow

The kid at the local fast food join can't calculate my change back without the computer telling him what it is.

river

Activity: -

Merit: -

Quote from: grndzero on March 31, 2011, 11:08:41 AM

bitcent sounds kinda lame I think. especially since that's what I've been mining for the last week until I got some better parts for a mining box. Cheesy

It's gonna be a real problem if the software ever starts carrying it out past 2 decimal places. what do you call .001 bitcoins without sounding nerdy or geeky. 100,000 satoshi's?

Like it or not every established currency has a easily recognizable/understandable representation for whole and fractions of their currency.

I'm not sure why they 8 decimal places was coded into the system, except to for the fact that it will cap around 21 million. If there's a cap then it would somewhat make sense if you started breaking it into smaller pieces.

Not only does it go to equality of representation as well as intrinsic value, but can you image going to the grocery store and in line after someone who just paid $150 for their groceries and the clerk ask you for "point zero zero one five bitcoins" or 150,000 satoshis?

I don't know ... 50~70 years ago a person would go pay for a coffee with Fiat money paying only $0.05 ... 5 cents ... same coffee is over $5.00 dollars today. Can you imagine going to a store and the person in front of you always pays .05 for a coffee while your cost just keeps going up and up and up OVER 100 TIMES THEIRS?? OHHH .. that's right .. it DID!!!!! ..... yes I CAN imagine the bitcoin VALUE .. thanx

grndzero

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

bitcent sounds kinda lame I think. especially since that's what I've been mining for the last week until I got some better parts for a mining box. Cheesy

It's gonna be a real problem if the software ever starts carrying it out past 2 decimal places. what do you call .001 bitcoins without sounding nerdy or geeky. 100,000 satoshi's?

Like it or not every established currency has a easily recognizable/understandable representation for whole and fractions of their currency.

I'm not sure why they 8 decimal places was coded into the system, except to for the fact that it will cap around 21 million. If there's a cap then it would somewhat make sense if you started breaking it into smaller pieces.

Not only does it go to equality of representation as well as intrinsic value, but can you image going to the grocery store and in line after someone who just paid $150 for their groceries and the clerk ask you for "point zero zero one five bitcoins" or 150,000 satoshis?

theGECK

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I don't think there is anything official about the names of BTC, but unofficially, I've seen people use what kiba posted.

Officially, I believe, 1 BTC is called a bitcoin. .00001 BTC is called ".00001 bitcoin".

kiba

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0.00000001 is a Satoshi. 1 BTC is 1 bitcoin.

Some folks like to say 0.01 is a bitcent, but I never see the usage of a bitdollar.

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