Topic: Newbies: Don't use centralized exchanges! - page 2. (Read 1201 times)
The (of course centralized) exchanges listed in this topic are especially untrustworthy by being proven to confiscate your coins if they believe you got it from gambling or other activites they don't like (directly or indirectly). Keep in mind that you can receive 'tainted funds' by someone you do legit business with, and you can be a totally legal person and still get your coins confiscated.
Even if you do legit business with a gambling platform that doesn't involve gambling, your coins can be dirty money in the eyes of centralized exchanges. Maybe you are a translator, content creator, developer, maybe you designed some artwork, a logo, found a bug in their systems... and you got compensated and rewarded for your work. Deposit those coins to a centralized exchange and you might be in for a nasty surprise. CMIIW but Hitbtc, Bitfinex, Poloniex, Yobit, Hotbit,... still not require any KYC to open an account and trade on them.
HitBTC and Yobit are scam exchanges. Just check out what kind of threads you will come across when you search for "site:bitcointalk.org Yobit" or "site:bitcointalk.org HitBTC". HitBTC makes it easy to deposit, almost impossible to withdraw. I remember they used to have the biggest withdrawal fees on the market. Do you have an example of such a decentralized exchange where these coins are sold?
witcher_sense mentioned EtherDelta, but I think that one is dead already. ForkDelta was often mentioned as its successor. But I can't help you regarding the token names. It is true that you could trade tokens on those platforms even before they got listed anywhere else. 
Do you have an example of such a decentralized exchange where these coins are sold?
And an example of such a coin?
Back in the day, there was a decentralized trading platform called Etherdelta where you could find many ERC20 tokens not listed on any centralized exchange. Anyone could come to Etherdelta, add their own token, and even create a kind of market with unique buyers and sellers. You didn't need to ask for permission to start trading there, you could frictionlessly import self-created or someone else's token. No wonder this place was full of scams, malicious copies, impersonators, and useless shitcoins of zero value, but at least no one could steal users' data or private keys because of the decentralized structure of the said platform. However, the chief problem of decentralized platforms like Etherdelta is that they are (or may be) decentralized only on a technical level but not on a social one. Etherdelta had a founder, a single point of failure, who was charged by the SEC with running an unregistered "decentralized" platform. And an example of such a coin?
I myself very often use various decentralized exchanges to buy new coins that are not yet available on centralized exchanges.
That's interesting! Do you have an example? I was under the impression that it's easier to find liquidity of altcoins on centralized exchanges rather than decentralized exchanges (just due to the fact that they have less liquidity in general).What example do you want to hear, because I am writing about new coins that have not yet been listed on centralized exchanges. Accordingly, such coins do not have liquidity on CEX, since they are not traded there and can only be bought on decentralized exchanges at the pre-sale stage of a public or closed round.
And an example of such a coin?
Like: 'There is the coin X that I could only buy on exchange Y'. Simple..
That's a good point; but I don't really believe you need privacy, untraceability or even self-custody if you see cryptocurrencies as just a means of speculation / trading. Because then you're just buying coins to sell them higher later. Traders don't aim to use the coins as anonymous, P2P cash anyway. They only want to maximize fiat holdings and never intend to actually use the currency. So therefore they couldn't care less about anonymity and privacy, right. That's a whole different use case.
For them the main aim is profitable trades and they have to trade cryptos so these exchanges are suitable for them but those who wants to hold their coins safely then avoiding these CEX is the best alternative to them as they have your keys and can freeze your transactions anytime so what safety do you expect from these platforms.But for holding your coins and using them (as they're meant to); steer far away from them. No matter how flashy and nicely they design their landing sites and how much they try to target newbies. These aren't Bitcoin on-ramps and shouldn't be used as such.
That's a good point; but I don't really believe you need privacy, untraceability or even self-custody if you see cryptocurrencies as just a means of speculation / trading. Because then you're just buying coins to sell them higher later. Traders don't aim to use the coins as anonymous, P2P cash anyway. They only want to maximize fiat holdings and never intend to actually use the currency. So therefore they couldn't care less about anonymity and privacy, right. That's a whole different use case.
For them the main aim is profitable trades and they have to trade cryptos so these exchanges are suitable for them but those who wants to hold their coins safely then avoiding these CEX is the best alternative to them as they have your keys and can freeze your transactions anytime so what safety do you expect from these platforms.We are users and holders not any competitor of these CEX who wants to establish their business by defaming them as the problems are real faced by many and just want to guide them to don't cater these exchanges.When you are storing decentralised cryptos like bitcoin on these centralised platforms then you deplete the base aim of using these coins and don't expect privacy and safety from them at all.
Those who are into trading also needs to have some P2P or decentralised exchange because there are lot of risk with these CEX and it's not hatred for them but only our precautionary measures to keep our funds safe form them and don't know how your KYC documents are being used by them are keep track of you with imposed restriction.
- KYCnot.me is a website on which you can find non-KYC exchanges. Make sure you check their trading volume and take it into consideration whether you will use it or not
I myself very often use various decentralized exchanges to buy new coins that are not yet available on centralized exchanges.
That's interesting! Do you have an example? I was under the impression that it's easier to find liquidity of altcoins on centralized exchanges rather than decentralized exchanges (just due to the fact that they have less liquidity in general).What example do you want to hear, because I am writing about new coins that have not yet been listed on centralized exchanges. Accordingly, such coins do not have liquidity on CEX, since they are not traded there and can only be bought on decentralized exchanges at the pre-sale stage of a public or closed round.
I see in this thread only opponents of centralized exchanges, but in fact most traders use CEX because of the greater functionality for trading.
That's a good point; but I don't really believe you need privacy, untraceability or even self-custody if you see cryptocurrencies as just a means of speculation / trading. Because then you're just buying coins to sell them higher later. Traders don't aim to use the coins as anonymous, P2P cash anyway. They only want to maximize fiat holdings and never intend to actually use the currency. So therefore they couldn't care less about anonymity and privacy, right. That's a whole different use case.Centralized, KYC exchanges might be a legit option for serious traders. However newbies should probably not trade in the first place.
What Can Happen If You Want to Trade Cryptocurrencies, but You Don’t Know How?
Maybe we should establish a distinction between:
(centralized) KYC exchange = best compared to stock exchange; for traders, looking to maximize fiat profits and
(decentralized) no-KYC Bitcoin on-ramp = novel concept, captures the spirit of Bitcoin (P2P), gets people Bitcoin without ties to identities and allows them to spend it anywhere and everywhere.
I myself very often use various decentralized exchanges to buy new coins that are not yet available on centralized exchanges.
That's interesting! Do you have an example? I was under the impression that it's easier to find liquidity of altcoins on centralized exchanges rather than decentralized exchanges (just due to the fact that they have less liquidity in general).
I see in this thread only opponents of centralized exchanges, but in fact most traders use CEX because of the greater functionality for trading. I myself very often use various decentralized exchanges to buy new coins that are not yet available on centralized exchanges.
It's time for the users to start delisting the exchanges.
People that wants privacy are just few from other people that do not even know what privacy is as fiat system has totally deceived them. If you ask some people that do not mind of having privacy why privacy is not needed, they will say when they are not thief or aiming to be involved in any online criminal activities, that privacy is not what it is necessary for them. They do not know the negative aspect of not being private online, like in data leak and also in possible way they can be traced to their home or real identity if their data leaked to online criminals. So, even the privacy people are most likely not using the exchanges as KYC policies had become very strict in South Korea since last year after their government has made it mandatory the exchanges to follow certain KYC laws that their customers should abide to before making use of any South Korea exchange.
I know, shameless plug; but I believe this fits the topic and will be very useful to newbies, too.
[Blacklist] of unreliable, 'taint proclaiming' Bitcoin services / exchanges
The (of course centralized) exchanges listed in this topic are especially untrustworthy by being proven to confiscate your coins if they believe you got it from gambling or other activites they don't like (directly or indirectly). Keep in mind that you can receive 'tainted funds' by someone you do legit business with, and you can be a totally legal person and still get your coins confiscated.
I can't imagine how it must feel to deposit a large sum of money that you got by selling goods legally, on an exchange, just to find out they confiscated it because some of the people you did business with, might have got their coins through supposedly 'illicit activities'.
[Blacklist] of unreliable, 'taint proclaiming' Bitcoin services / exchanges
The (of course centralized) exchanges listed in this topic are especially untrustworthy by being proven to confiscate your coins if they believe you got it from gambling or other activites they don't like (directly or indirectly). Keep in mind that you can receive 'tainted funds' by someone you do legit business with, and you can be a totally legal person and still get your coins confiscated.
I can't imagine how it must feel to deposit a large sum of money that you got by selling goods legally, on an exchange, just to find out they confiscated it because some of the people you did business with, might have got their coins through supposedly 'illicit activities'.
It's time for the users to start delisting the exchanges.
I understand your wish and I fully support the opinion that it is not necessary to use centralized exchanges. Now there are many alternatives for buying / selling crypto and it is easy to do this without using centralized exchanges with their extremely unprofitable and inflated prices for withdrawing funds and KYC. I assume that centralized exchanges will still attract beginners and traders despite all the shortcomings. Firstly, because beginners don't know alternative methods / platforms, and secondly, because where else can traders to trade shitcoins. The influx of beginners and traders will never stop, therefore, even if all users heed your call and delisting exchanges, then all the same, centralized exchanges there will be an impressive user base.
I know this is cliche, but how are we going to achieve this when exchanges are hanging paltry sums of $5, $10 over users' heads for "learning crypto", "verifying your account" and so on?
With education. Sure, if a person doesn't care of having every right that's written in the first page infringed, wants to trade shitcoins, upload his documents, play with a x10 margin call, leave all of his coins to the exchange and so on, it's impossible to convince him do otherwise.But, if he's interested into actually using bitcoin because of the fundamentals, he ought to opt himself out of this opaque, weak and corrupted exchanging system. Even if he's already left footprints. Better late than never.
It's time for the users to start delisting the exchanges.
I know this is cliche, but how are we going to achieve this when exchanges are hanging paltry sums of $5, $10 over users' heads for "learning crypto", "verifying your account" and so on? You won't believe how many people would run after that tiny sum.
Bump.
South Korean exchanges delist Litecoin, because consensus was found to implement the MimbleWimble upgrade. They're removing it, because they don't want your privacy, it can't become more clear than that. Same has happened with Monero. As it's already proved again, fungibility ≠ privacy.
It's time for the users to start delisting the exchanges.
South Korean exchanges delist Litecoin, because consensus was found to implement the MimbleWimble upgrade. They're removing it, because they don't want your privacy, it can't become more clear than that. Same has happened with Monero. As it's already proved again, fungibility ≠ privacy.
It's time for the users to start delisting the exchanges.
The problem here isn't bitcoin, but rather people being all too willing to give up everything that bitcoin stands for - sovereignty over your money, censorship resistance, no third parties, decentralization - in exchange for a little bit of convenience.
People are very much lazy and afraid to handle their wealth themselves. We exchange our privacy and security for a little bit of convenience. Though, what you see as little convenience might mean much to them. The inability to man up to to our personal task is the reason we have bank accounts, then have bank managers, then financial advisors, relationship managers, investment advisors and to every aspect. Many do not want to take responsibilities and that is why bitcoin appears to be so much technical to them.
It appears to me like Cryptocurrency is not serving it's ordained purpose (to be a decentralise currency).
It's not bitcoin that is failing here. Bitcoin is, and always has been, decentralized. It is very straightforward to buy, sell, trade, use, spend, hold, and anything else you want to do with bitcoin without ever touching a centralized exchange or other financial institution. You can buy peer to peer with other users, you can hold your own keys in your own wallet, run your own node to verify transactions and blocks yourself, spend directly with merchants in exchange for goods and services, and so on. You never need to give up your security and your privacy as demanded by centralized exchanges to use bitcoin.The problem here isn't bitcoin, but rather people being all too willing to give up everything that bitcoin stands for - sovereignty over your money, censorship resistance, no third parties, decentralization - in exchange for a little bit of convenience.
Wow, this is a real eye opener, I've always thought in this line before but I wasn't clear on it. For some reasons I felt decentralised exchange would be better for cryptocurrency, but then I looked at the advantage some of these centralised exchange (like binance and kucoin) have in the area of P2P transaction, there's great security and the transaction is very much under control.
But looking at the matter wholistically, decentralised exchange truly would be the best. I once thought of this that when the major aim of cryptocurrency is to eliminate the intermediary (centralization) factor, why should there still be Centralised exchange? It appears to me like Cryptocurrency is not serving it's ordained purpose (to be a decentralise currency).
But looking at the matter wholistically, decentralised exchange truly would be the best. I once thought of this that when the major aim of cryptocurrency is to eliminate the intermediary (centralization) factor, why should there still be Centralised exchange? It appears to me like Cryptocurrency is not serving it's ordained purpose (to be a decentralise currency).
It kind of counteracts the whole concept of cryptography... if they are asking you for verification to unfreeze your coins then it loses it's all meaning of being uncentralized
That is well noted information been share, as you stated it early, the restriction of crypto trading and investment has been a major concern in many country in the name of Known Your Customer (KYC), in centralized exchanges, which government against on. Never the less blockchain technology is transparent, which they are many decentralized exchanges where you can buy and trading including the once already mention as the case may be.
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