Nigerian government set to tax bitcoin and crypto transactions

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 08, 2022, 07:12:19 AM

The Central Bank of Nigeria ordered the country's banks to limit the issuance of cash at ATMs.
https://www.cbn.gov.ng/Out/2022/CCD/RevisedCashWithdrawal.pdf
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/12/breaking-cbn-reduces-cash-withdrawals-to-n100k-n500k-per-week-for-individuals-companies/
"The Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) has announced a new policy that mandates deposit money banks and other financial institutions to ensure that over-the-counter cash withdrawals by individuals and corporate entities do not exceed N100, 000 and N500, 000, respectively, per week."
It's a way to get people to use the CBDC. I don't think this way will be successful.

It wouldn't be a surprised if one day Nigerian citizen revolt against the government. That limit is too much. How could a starting business thrive if they charge 5% on excess transactions. These people (banks) are milking its citizen and yet the government does nothing about it.

I don't think that limit encourage the use of CBDC, that limitation encourage hates and anger. I bet many will just skip banks and do their own network of transactions with financial institution out of the picture.

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1. No, introduction of taxes especially sfter trying to ban it completely doesn't mean they are adopting the technology, it simply means they failed to ban or restrict users so now decided to discourage with implement of taxes.

True, milking its citizen of money and adoption of cryptocurrency is two different things.

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on December 05, 2022, 05:06:42 AM

My doubts over this recent moves are:

1. Does this means the government is considering the adoption of bitcoin and other crypto currencies?

2. How has the other countries placed on crypto taxation faired so far?

3. Will its regulation helps speeds up its adoption by people within the country?

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1. No, introduction of taxes especially sfter trying to ban it completely doesn't mean they are adopting the technology, it simply means they failed to ban or restrict users so now decided to discourage with implement of taxes.

2. Taxing differs from one to another country, some tax for the gains, some keep it under income tax.

3. Taxing every transaction isn't really a good thing, even 1 or 2% if too high because we have to pay that tax rate from entire amount not from profits.

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Quote from: franky1 on December 08, 2022, 09:01:48 PM

its not self custody that is a red flag. its transfers from a non regulated CEX or mixing service that are red flags.

Great. This means that trading peer-to-peer, buying goods and services from merchants, selling goods and services as a merchant, coins that return back on-chain after lightning, and even moving your coins across your wallets is a red flag. Which basically means that self-custody and legitimate usage of bitcoin are red flags.

Quote from: franky1 on December 08, 2022, 09:01:48 PM

stop the nonsense of trying to say bitcoin self custody is a risk just to pretend your altnet solution is better.

Did I ever mention lightning in this thread? No. You did. You, psycho consensus nightmare.

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Quote from: Cookdata on December 07, 2022, 06:22:28 AM

This is old news and for your information, Bitcoin is not banned, financial institutions were only banned from engaging in the activities of bitcoin, and the government prohibits them from going in and out of bitcoin because of the underlying corruptions within their own system. The CBN was tipped that commercial banks and some of their staff were using people's money to buy bitcoin and we all know that is against the etiquette of CBN policy for commercial banks to use customers' money for their own benefits and what is not approved by them. Bitcoin is not banned in Nigeria, please do more research on the adoption of bitcoin in Nigeria.

You are very correct on this, many people have this miss conception about bitcoin in Nigeria even though, Nigeria happens to be one of the highest Bitcoin users globally and in terms of Bitcoin trading volume, Nigeria is still the highest in Africa even as there is a restriction of banks from cryptocurrency transactions. Nigerian have adopted Bitcoin as an alternative currency even though they have to do their transaction in a p2p manner since everyone knows that, since Bitcoin is decentralized no third parties can restrict Bitcoin transactions so only the bank can be restricted from cryptocurrency transactions but the individuals are free to transact Bitcoin in a peer to peer level.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 08, 2022, 03:58:26 PM

Quote from: tbct_mt2 on December 08, 2022, 05:40:44 AM

We can not trust them completely but society must have government and their staffs to operate.

What about self-custody? Did you know that if you're caught to do self-custody you're a red flag for the FATF?

dont dare start that nonsense again
its not self custody that is a red flag. its transfers from a non regulated CEX or mixing service that are red flags.
stop the nonsense of trying to say bitcoin self custody is a risk just to pretend your altnet solution is better.
your favoured altnet is a privacy enhancing tool which is a red flag.. not bitcoin self custody

grow up

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Quote from: tbct_mt2 on December 08, 2022, 05:40:44 AM

We can not trust them completely but society must have government and their staffs to operate.

No doubt. I'm not in favor of anarchy. But I'm mostly favor of freedom, and the more regulation there is, the more likely to have part of this freedom violated. I mean, is there any specific reason why the US government collects about one fifth of the profit made from selling bitcoin? What's the reasoning behind this? What about self-custody? Did you know that if you're caught to do self-custody you're a red flag for the FATF? The only rational solution for politicians is to have everybody's money on a fully surveilled bank account; well, we have the power to effectively vote against this notion easily now more, and we better do.

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Quote from: _BlackStar on December 08, 2022, 03:47:15 PM

Here are my thoughts on your question.

Without adopting, government can make you pay taxes on your crypto profits.

True! And I think the Nigerian government is just doing that to get money through taxation, since the Nigerian government can't stop their citizen in using and investing in Bitcoin, they rather have it taxed and profit from it.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 08, 2022, 03:47:15 PM

Several Asian countries have implemented crypto taxes and the government directly sets taxes on exchanges so that every trade made by traders will generate taxes for the government.

I have not known about this, because in my country, the government has not set taxes on the exchanges, all we have to pay is the processing fee and nothing else.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 08, 2022, 03:47:15 PM

Rules won't help speed up adoption, but will definitely hurt trader indirectly.

I think this depends on the set of rules the government is implementing. Just like in Japan where they implement easier rule for the cryptocurrency to be listed in an exchange. Some country ease up the usage of cryptocurrency in order for its citizen to use Bitcoin easily thus making adoption easier.

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Here are my thoughts on your question.

Without adopting, government can make you pay taxes on your crypto profits.
Several Asian countries have implemented crypto taxes and the government directly sets taxes on exchanges so that every trade made by traders will generate taxes for the government.
Rules won't help speed up adoption, but will definitely hurt trader indirectly.

Governments that are smart will take advantage of opportunities will regulate users ^{[traders & investors]} to pay taxes from their profits in crypto. They don't plan to adopt bitcoin or crypto as a means of payment, and I think without changing the regulations they will make huge profits from crypto. Rules like this have been implemented in several countries, but what is certain is that it benefits the government so that the state tax treasury will increase.

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The sum of amount you had mentioned is very low for withdrawal limit in Nigeria. Even the business can’t use this for their transaction,this should not back the Nigerian economy backward. Because people with plan B will be work out here.They will start to use of crypto currency for the transaction.So it look like the market going to response for the same and green market in few days.

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on December 05, 2022, 05:06:42 AM

My doubts over this recent moves are:

1. Does this means the government is considering the adoption of bitcoin and other crypto currencies?

They are into Bitcoin adoption not to use its service or integrate the technology in their current finance system but to milk Bitcoiners thru tax. They adopt Bitcoin to profit from it.

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2. How has the other countries placed on crypto taxation faired so far?

As far as I know crypto taxation isn't fully implemented yet by other country, I believe they are still in discussion process. But those cryptos that are converted to cash is susceptible to taxation.

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3. Will its regulation helps speeds up its adoption by people within the country?

Depends on the kind of regulation the government had implemented. If they regulate it just to tax Bitcoin, then I do not think it is helping for adoption. If a country is serious about adoption, they will make a law that will implement an easier access to Bitcoin ecosystem and not implementing a one-sided gain like taxation and nothing else.

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Quote from: Harchive on December 08, 2022, 11:01:21 AM

Believe me, this is not about any form of adoption from the Nigeria government, this is for their own selfish gains, since they can't control people not to invest in crypto they have to find ways to make gains out of crypto adopters, now that sounds more like the Nigeria government.

I wouldn't call them selfish I think they see that the people of their country are using Bitcoin or cryptocurrency even when it was illegal, Country and government both ain't get any benefit from this, so by imposing taxes, at least some money will be deposited in the country's reserves. I applaud their step. I think it will not only increase the use of cryptocurrency in their country but also increase the users and also increase their country's reserves through this step

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 08, 2022, 07:12:19 AM

"The Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) has announced a new policy that mandates deposit money banks and other financial institutions to ensure that over-the-counter cash withdrawals by individuals and corporate entities do not exceed N100, 000 and N500, 000, respectively, per week."
It's a way to get people to use the CBDC. I don't think this way will be successful.

This is literally an impossible policy like many others that I don't think will be effective in implementation, because #500'000 is not even up to what some people withdraw some days for business transactions, so in such cases, what will be the fate of such individuals? Or poor individuals who don't have a smartphone to access the CBDC mobile app? Because no matter how the central banks claim to regulate fiat currency, there will always be a plan B, which is why I love Bitcoin as it gives us unlimited access to our funds

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Believe me, this is not about any form of adoption from the Nigeria government, this is for their own selfish gains, since they can't control people not to invest in crypto they have to find ways to make gains out of crypto adopters, now that sounds more like the Nigeria government.

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on December 05, 2022, 05:06:42 AM

1. Does this means the government is considering the adoption of bitcoin and other crypto currencies?

The government is not considering other cryptocurrencies or bitcoin for adoption now, but i think what they needed is the tax payment for regulations which can only be effective with the centralized exchanges and not with everyone participating in bitcoin transaction from their decentralized wallet.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on December 05, 2022, 05:06:42 AM

2. How has the other countries placed on crypto taxation faired so far?

This is common to many countries as well, they tax the exchanges, crypto firms, mining rigs for power supply and other regulations protocols they put in place for those that can't evade their centralizdled authority.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on December 05, 2022, 05:06:42 AM

3. Will its regulation helps speeds up its adoption by people within the country?

No but rather it may make no tangible difference since they are after what they collect and notbthe adoption and with or without government bitcoin is moving forward ever.

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The Central Bank of Nigeria ordered the country's banks to limit the issuance of cash at ATMs.
https://www.cbn.gov.ng/Out/2022/CCD/RevisedCashWithdrawal.pdf
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/12/breaking-cbn-reduces-cash-withdrawals-to-n100k-n500k-per-week-for-individuals-companies/
"The Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) has announced a new policy that mandates deposit money banks and other financial institutions to ensure that over-the-counter cash withdrawals by individuals and corporate entities do not exceed N100, 000 and N500, 000, respectively, per week."
It's a way to get people to use the CBDC. I don't think this way will be successful.

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Quote from: Zanab247 on December 06, 2022, 12:37:42 PM

Maybe the government want to use that strategy to know if government can also benefit from Bitcoin and cryptocurrency in the country before they can make it legal for the users to have full access to it. I guess, there are some countries that imposed tax to Bitcoin and cryptocurrency users in their countries but the users are not enjoying it like El Salvador country that made it free for their citizens. If the government will make it legal in the country by tax users , it will really help Nigeria government to tackle this high inflation that is affecting the country.

That is exactly what the Nigerian government wants, as they will impose tax on any cryptocurrency investor. They want to use this method to begin profiting from cryptocurrency.
The government of Nigeria may decide that accepting it and profiting from it is preferable to outright banning it and having the public use it, given that the public is already using Bitcoin despite the ban that took effect in February 2021.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 08, 2022, 05:09:16 AM

Of course it is, but history is full of breaches of government spending. I personally don't trust my president and financial secretary for doing the right thing for the community, and that's mostly because they don't know what's the right thing to begin with.

We can not trust them completely but society must have government and their staffs to operate. One party is down, another party takes over the government and it's democracy that can keep society works well. It's not perfect but it is better than no government at all or a dictatorship.

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I'm not in favor of zero taxes, there's absolutely a percentage of income that has to be taxed, and a percentage of services the government might be doing more effectively or/and properly than the private sector, but our government spending has reached the ceiling.

It's good to know that you are not a zero-tax supporter. I believe tax is necessary but how government use tax to serve their citizens, communities and their national well-beings is a challenge.

We only know it is good or bad after they do it.

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Quote from: Zaguru12 on December 05, 2022, 05:06:42 AM

1. Does this means the government is considering the adoption of bitcoin and other crypto currencies?

Not necessarily, such a thing has happened in most countries that previously banned bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.
Regulating and taxing cryptocurrencies is a kind of tacit recognition, but does not mean adoption.

Governments that were unable to prevent people from using bitcoin and cryptocurrencies eventually found themselves forced to deal with the fait accompli through regulation and tax collection.

Despite all the negatives that may exist in these laws, I find them positive because they have recognition of Bitcoin and encrypted currencies. This recognition can lead the government to accept Bitcoin in the end when they find that this helps fill the state treasury and develop the economy.

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Quote from: tbct_mt2 on December 07, 2022, 10:14:34 PM

It is fair enough if cryptocurrency investors have to submit their tax report and contribute part of their earnings to government tax treasury and contribute to communities, societies they are living in.

Of course it is, but history is full of breaches of government spending. I personally don't trust my president and financial secretary for doing the right thing for the community, and that's mostly because they don't know what's the right thing to begin with. I'm not in favor of zero taxes, there's absolutely a percentage of income that has to be taxed, and a percentage of services the government might be doing more effectively or/and properly than the private sector, but our government spending has reached the ceiling.

I mean, who's trusting politicians nowadays? I've yet to find a non-corrupted individual in that field. Everybody knows how to spend other people's money better than them. Evading taxes is an effective way to say "screw you" or "I don't trust you".

Quote from: stompix on December 08, 2022, 04:00:55 AM

This is what I find quite fascinating about bitcoin, after all, bitcoin is want you want it to be, an investment, a speculative asset, a way to hide your money a way to send money, it can serve multiple purposes and with the reverse of the expression, your keys, your coins your decision to do what you want with them, one can't do anything but respect other's view, no matter how twisted it is.

Freedom of choice. That's why I'm in favor of having a cautious attitude against regulations. There's no doubt that they're going to discourage its usage as money. They already have.

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I've got two thoughts on this;

1. The government can't do anything so even if they ban bitcoin transactions into their jurisdiction, they can't stop people from doing P2P transactions whether they use an exchange or just go directly to their dark made market.

2. The people has also no choice, the government bans or unbans, they'll still be in a tough situation so taxation is lkely the incentive that they can give in return to the government. Well, most countries do this as crypto is a big thing already that they can no longer avoid to ignore.

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