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Topic: No Money Exists Without the Majority - page 5. (Read 10254 times)

hero member
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August 07, 2013, 07:30:19 PM
#82
Quote
The answer to the problems of deflation/ austerity due to a fixed supply of currency, is and always has been to increase spending by printing or otherwise debasing that currency, creating inflation. Inflation is a form of net worth tax, although a flawed version, as discussed below. Once this flaw is removed, this naturally occurring tax can be allowed to deflate the nominal values of all wealth (not just money). The result is that everyone's relative wealth remains unchanged by the tax, meaning that the currency ends up not debased!

You are responding to my point that gold can never be the only money because it would penalize investing for productivity by giving the returns to those who sit on their gold, because the gold supply doesn't expand fast enough to pay the investors the ROI on the expansion of the economy due to their efforts and risk.

The problem with any tax is that the elite capture it in the Olsen scramble. Top-down is not a solution. We need decentralized solutions.

Inflation is not a problem, because it benefits the working class, whose wages will rise proportionally and depletes the idle capital of the capitalists who are not investing in new technology and productivity.

The problem with inflation as it is created now, is that the elite get their hands on the levers that create inflation and thus give the debased money to themselves.

This problem elite capture won't be possible in a better Bitcoin, that contains sufficient continuous debasement (i.e. inflation), because no entity can control the rate of debasement.

Quote
In any event the exponential ramp in technology as we approach the singularity may eventually render the capitalism/ socialism model obsolete.

The technological singularity is nonsense. I refuted it here:

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html

Note that Nicolas Taleb agreed with me.

But I do agree that if we earn our ROI in knowledge gained, instead of dollars saved, then for those who are in that new economy they will not be controlled by monetary capital. And thus knowledge capital can grow much faster without being burdened by monetary controls (how much capital do you need to write a new software program in your bedroom?) and in a decentralized manner. My Copute plans are all about that model of the future.
hero member
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August 07, 2013, 06:42:19 PM
#81
Here is the direct link to that Catherine Austin Fitts video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EiMUPdtFXI

Excellent video to bring to my attention.

Essentially she is arguing that the Private sector is extracting itself from the Public sector, as the socialism (statism) is dying.

But she makes the mistake of not identifying which portion of the private sector is allowed to go free and which portion is being held slave to the Public sector.

Btw, Martin Armstrong's ECM Pi (8.6 years = 3145.9 days) model also has the Public sector wave ending in 1981, and the Private sector wave extending to and peaking in 2033, and 2033 is also when the 26 year down portion of the Real Estate cycle bottoms:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/models/7219-2/

Armstrong has also called for the dollar to strengthen and the developing world to crash due to being short the dollar (as they received massive dollar loans as this was only place for international capital to earn a decent return, but now the flow is reversing back to the USA as Fitts also noted).

W.r.t. to old and new economy (robotics, etc) and return to USA of more hitech manufacturing, good to see she read my emails a few months ago, as she is now repeating my theme. Well I can't assume she learned that from me Smiley

Fitts calls for long-term boom in the stock market (when asked about China becoming new reserve currency she said "impossible now, something to study 20 years out"), so her view of the USA stock market possibly rising through 2033 I guess wouldn't be an anathema to Armstrong.

However, Armstrong has called for crash in 2016 that will be worse than 2008. Fitts rather views collapse as more likely for the developing world-- not for the USA. Rather she sees a slow-burn (to 2033?) of defaulting on socialism for the USA (at least, does she include Europe and G7? I think so). She sees roving failures globally and nationally, but not one big catastrophic moment of failure globally.

She agrees with Armstrong that the G7 (in defense of the Public sector) is attacking safe havens. She mentions her estimate of $40 trillion stolen from the public sector by those in the Private sector (banks, military establishment, etc) who own the government.

She didn't acknowledge that those powers that be are not attacking safe havens that include themselves and their $40 trillion, rather the
attacking of the safe havens is to go after all the competition from the millionaires and the upper middle class. So this is power consolidation, power grab. She could refer to my recent emails about how empires die, and how they destroy themselves by destroying their tax base-- the upper middle class who create businesses.

She agrees with Armstrong that the USA (G7) empire will not go quietly into the night and they are twisting the arm of the G20, and they will use their power to attack anyone who is not playing ball in their system.

Fitts argues that the USA can reinvent itself, but she misses one very important point. Demographics. Europe even more so. The West can excel at high tech but it can't become lean overall as a society until the boomers die off (i.e. another 20 years or so, i.e. 2033 again). Whereas, the developing world can quickly grow after resetting itself with defaults. Heritage foundation data shows the developing countries have a very low level of government as share of GDP unlike the West, so they are poised to grow after the recent influx of credit is purged in a collapse coming soon (2016). Young people simply adapt more quickly and are highly motivated to do so. Old people are hanging for a "few more good years".

Armstrong thinks the rising interest rates will choke off the old economy and exacerbate the sovereign and local government fiscal positions (not to mention how this will set off derivative defaults on the interest rate swaps, and derivatives get first priority over bond holders and depositors), thus causing a collapse into deflation, i.e. austerity along with rising taxes and hunting down all capital. This is not so different than Fitt's slow burn, except for key point.

Armstrong thinks "safe haven" will come to mean any capital that is not buying a "get out of jail free card" from the government, i.e. all middle class wealth will be targeted.

So this is the difference between Fitts and Armstrong, and I am sure Armstrong is correct, because Fitts missed the point that demographics don't afford her scenario of a widespread recovery and the powers that be want a bunch of slaves with them in control (i.e. they don't want to give up control to millions of free enterprice, they want fascism).

The reality will probably end up being somewhere in between Fitt's optimism and Armstrong's pessimism, especially since yours truly is working on a better Bitcoin that can hide capital from the bastards and build the new economy under their nose.



Quote from: email
> http://www.bmgbullion.com/document/buzz/2013-08-07
> ...and she is making some very good points. My
> big question is how many will be left behind by
> the new economy and what's going to happen to
> them? Will they let those in the new economy
> dance while they starve? How peaceful or messy
> will that be That's easily 50M-80M people that
> are "excess" and don't really fit into the new
> world because they will never get the skills to
> be useful. Will they just be plowed under or induced to mass suicide? By
the way if her scenario with a strong
> industrial America
> (oil/agro/technology/manufacturing) is true, the
> moonshot in metals will never come, and gold
> won't even reach 3000, unless there is war.
> Silver might go higher because of industrial use and shortage.
hero member
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August 07, 2013, 05:52:49 AM
#80
you may see opportunity out of adversity, such is the way us  humans work .

Can't you read? I already did.

An alternative to Bitcoin which is is truly anonymous and thus can't be confiscated, could potentially render the USA empire fiscally impotent sending it away powerless with its tail between its legs.

Also:

http://blog.jim.com/culture/radish-explains-what-racism-means.html/comment-page-1#comment-346422

Quote from: JustSaying a.k.a. AnonyMint
See also my article, No Money Exists Without the Majority. Since writing that, I have become more convinced that we can temporary defeat the majority with better anonymity and with a higher debasement rate for the digital coin, so that mining is more profitable. In the end though, society can require us to be 666 chipped (no religiosity is attached to this statement). So my article will remain correct in the longer-term.
hero member
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‘Try to be nice’
August 06, 2013, 11:13:51 PM
#79
Ok Anony sorry for interrupting your well put together  depressed and semi schizophrenic predictions of our certain doom and gloom .

Just a leaving note old friend .

Take yourself less seriously .

Try to focus a little more on the self , and you may see opportunity out of adversity, such is the way us  humans work .

Oh also it's 2013 , I'm pretty certain everyone knows the score by now.
hero member
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August 06, 2013, 10:24:41 PM
#78
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/confiscation-of-gold-possible-or-not/

About the above "Confiscation of gold", the key points to remember are:

1. They can't confiscate what you physically hide, but other than coins for barter (no need to assay, trusted), you won't be able to invest that wealth (easily and efficiently in large size) without paying the confiscation or taxes, because the powers that be control the avenues for investment. So all this BS from goldbugs about they can't confiscate what you bury in a hole, is only valid for the Madmax scenario, not for the scenario where they make a new money system after the crisis and you can't enter it without paying the confiscation or taxes. I warned of this years ago:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article20327.html (End Game - Gold Investors Destroyed)
http://www.financialsensearchive.com/fsu/editorials/moore/2010/0615.html (copy)
http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/no-money-exists-without-majority (No Money Exists Without The Majority)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/no-money-exists-without-the-majority-226033 (discussion)

2. They won't bother confiscating gold if there isn't that much wealth to attack (if the payoff is less than the effort and cost). So bear in mind, that a more anonymous Bitcoin alternative (coming soon), which they can not confiscate, will pull wealth away from gold. A possible reason the Bible speaks of a 666 mark on the forehead and hand (governments will need to physically track you to re-enable their power to tax you after I am done destroying that power), is because the governments are going to be destroyed by a truly anonymous Bitcoin alternative which they can not confiscate. Most people don't realize this is actually possible:

http://blog.jim.com/economics/bitcoin-as-a-speculative-bet.html/comment-page-1#comment-342148
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2847982


3. Physical gold can't create a new economy. We can't go back to physical barter and have any where near the maximum divison-of-labor we have now (thus quality of life would plummet). Forget it. An alternative to Bitcoin which is is truly anonymous and thus can't be confiscated, could potentially render the USA empire fiscally impotent sending it away powerless with its tail between its legs.
hero member
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August 06, 2013, 09:30:23 PM
#77
Quote from: AnonyMint a.k.a. Shelby
Martin Armstrong has not said that gold isn't money. He has said that a strict gold standard is never sustainable, and he explained why. Society must oscillate between gold and fiat money, because of at least two reasons:

1. Debt isn't possible on a strict gold standard (no fractional reserves)

2. Strict gold standard means savings is 100% more important than production and knowledge formation, because savers (who do nothing but sit on their gold) always get wealthier. You can't pay investors more, because the supply of gold doesn't increase as fast as the increased production value.

Point #2 above hasn't been explained clearly enough for most people to understand.

Martin explained this very abstractly by saying the supply of gold can't expand with the expansion of the economy. Goldbugs ignore this explanation, because they say the value of gold can increase accordingly.

What is missing is that when investors invest in a productive business, they expect to get a ROI which is greater than just sitting on their gold. So if via such investments, the economy grows at X% where X is greater than the expansion of the physical gold supply, then some of the investors can't be paid, i.e. the savers in gold take the gains from the investors in the form of price deflation.

Why can't otherwise smart people see that? I dunno. Cognitive dissonance? I mean I know one guy who claims he scored higher than me on the SAT (but not on the Math) and is a famous silver promoter, and for some reason he just can't seem to understand that (or at least hasn't indicated to me he got the point).

Some people point to the Byzantine empire (Eastern Rome) as an example of a sustainable gold standard. In every case where there was a gold standard, either it wasn't the only money (i.e. banks were creating gold receipts which were backed only by fractional reserves) and/or gold was being imported into the economy thus expanding the supply of gold faster than the 2% per annum expansion of global supply due to mining.

How can anyone make this any more clear? Whoever can't get this, should shut up, they don't have sufficient IQ to be commenting on the matter then.

P.S. Bitcoin is worse than gold, as the increase in supply stops entirely in 2033. Clearly a flawed design, for the reasons above, and also because mining of new coins is the only SURE way to anonymously obtain bit coins.
legendary
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Terminated.
August 06, 2013, 01:32:52 PM
#76
Maybe you're from a paralel dimension Earth?

more likely something closer to a chronosynclastic infundibulated version of that . , if that were true.
Well he seems to think he's smart and important  Cheesy Cheesy
I guess we have been striked with his ignore list.
hero member
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August 06, 2013, 12:46:44 PM
#75
Hey you two (or three) trolling twerps who are cluttering this thread with nonsense and noise.

Ego is for little people and demonstrated by those who can't build, talk.  Wink

I have put you two (actually three yet he stopped recently) both on ignore, thus the thread reads much more sanely and clearly (for those who put you two or three on ignore).

Frankly, if you two (or three) put yourselves on ignore, your sanity might return because you would be forced to actually comprehend the useful information, and develop some robust thinking skills.
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‘Try to be nice’
August 06, 2013, 09:39:26 AM
#74
So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial?  Roll Eyes

Are you sure you live on planet earth?

I don't know,  possibly ?
Maybe you're from a paralel dimension Earth?

more likely something closer to a chronosynclastic infundibulated version of that . , if that were true.
legendary
Activity: 2674
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Terminated.
August 06, 2013, 08:17:58 AM
#73
So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial?  Roll Eyes

Are you sure you live on planet earth?

I don't know,  possibly ?
Maybe you're from a paralel dimension Earth?
hero member
Activity: 798
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‘Try to be nice’
August 06, 2013, 07:33:59 AM
#72
So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial?  Roll Eyes

Are you sure you live on planet earth?

I don't know,  possibly ?
hero member
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August 06, 2013, 06:53:53 AM
#71
Discussion between myself and James A. Donald (the first person who interacted with Satoshi at the cryptography forum where Satoshi announced Bitcoin):

http://blog.jim.com/culture/radish-explains-what-racism-means.html/comment-page-1#comment-345629

Quote from: James A. Donald
If bitcoin is fixed – made scalable so as to remain truly peer to peer all the way to volumes comparable to Visa, that would be a huge win. Also, being in on that at the start would get one rich.

Wink

I hope you saw my proposed solution.

I also feel strong anonymity is very important, because I think the government may become oppressive as end-stage Rome. The only way I can see to obtain digital coin anonymously is through mining (not an exchange) using a mix-net or dc-net that is more anonymous than Tor, i.e. tradeoff high latency for better anonymity (become impervious to timing attacks). Mining in Bitcon is falling fast (as a % of existing coin supply) to be at 0 in 2033.
hero member
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August 06, 2013, 06:48:56 AM
#70
So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial?  Roll Eyes

Are you sure you live on planet earth?
hero member
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‘Try to be nice’
August 06, 2013, 06:44:30 AM
#69
Anony , you of course do know that Martin Armstrong worked for the federal government don't you ?

In fact if you research carefully you can see the very strong connections between Martin Armstrong , and the many many webs that make up the broard federal communication systems  intelligence network .

They might not seem obvious to you straight away , but if you do actually research you will see the connections .

Furthermore , with regards to the NSA designing and releasing Bitcoin , well ,  I think you can look at Martin Armstrong's well connected history in this regard also.

Now do not misunderstand my response to you , as going in a somewhat tralfamadorian direction , but I have to ask you Anony , how well do you know Martin Armstrong ?

Just how well ....
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August 06, 2013, 05:31:49 AM
#68
Click this first link below to read the following text in the context of a longer discussion between myself and James A. Donald (the first person who interacted with Satoshi at the cryptography forum where Satoshi announced Bitcoin).

http://blog.jim.com/culture/radish-explains-what-racism-means.html/comment-page-1#comment-345588

Apologies for this long comment, but I wanted to make it very clear that when empires fall, it is very dangerous for the citizens of the empire.

Quote from: James A. Donald
Rome during and after Diocletian attempted to tax above the Laffer limit. ... Economy collapsed and population declined. It was extremely unpleasant, and the collapse of empire did not make things better.

Indeed, when empires collapse, there isn't hyperinflation, rather the empire state exerts its power until it has destroyed itself (and the citizens) from within. Armstrong wrote more about that today quoted as follows.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/nsa-collects-word-for-word-according-to-pbs/

Quote from: Martin Armstrong
...

This is all about the financial crisis and this is how ALL governments have collapsed – sheer economic implosion as they turn against their own people. As I have said before. You will pray for the hyperinflation where government simply prints and does not try to confiscate assets. That has just never been the case in developed nations where assets exist. Hyperinflation is associated with governments that are typically new and revolutionary where hard assets are hoarded and not present in banks and there is not debt market for nobody will lend to them. We are not at that stage at this time. We first have to see confidence collapse and the bond market implode with nobody buying. But where does ca[ital then go since there is no alternative? The future is just not going to be such a easy way out.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/how-empires-collapse-a-orderly-path-to-conclusion/

Quote from: Martin Armstrong
A number of people have asked what does the future really hold with the civil unrest/war cycle turning up next year. Government NEVER collapse because of revolution. Let’s get this one very straight. Any government as long as it is strong will crush into dust any resistance. The key to the collapse of empires is the die from inside normally by their own hand. Communism fell of its own accord. We did not do a damn thing. Communism was economically unsustainable. As that worked its way through the veins of power, their economies simply imploded.

This is why I am warning that socialism is collapsing. Government is hunting down every penny it can find. It will destroy the economy in the process and that is the ultimate irony. Western government are simply unsustainable. We cannot constantly confiscate assets and pour them into interest and pension to sustain government. The economy grows weaker and the revenues decline as they become more and more aggressive.

The Barbarians were at the gates of Rome for more than a century. They could not make any headway until the 3rd century when the financial of Rome were imploding. Undermine the economy, you weaken the government, and then it falls. The rise of people in arms is NEVER the actual event the changes the cycle. It is the final act that completes the cycle. The cycle is already declining and then when the people cannot take it any more, they will rise up. They get the credit, but in fact, the government is declining just as we saw in China. When the man stood before the tanks, it did not take long for the government to really fail.

Revolution is the final act, never the first. Here is a famous Maryland Propaganda Note intended to justify war because of the injustice of the King. The king of England played a game with the American colonies. Anything they bought from England had to be paid in silver or gold. However, whatever they sold to England was paid in copper. Hence, he was extorting the American Colonies and bleeding them dry. First comes the economic decline – then comes the Revolution. So what must take place FIRST is the economic collapse and that will then lead to discontent. Why do you think they are passing all these [dracronian] laws one step at a time that follows a planned path only an idiot cannot see because they do not wish to.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/obama-trying-to-cover-up-another-investigative-program/

Quote from: Martin Armstrong
Bloomberg News has reported that Federal courts now allow the IRS to issue summonses to US banks at the request of the Norwegian government, to hunt down their citizens with assets in the USA.  All of these government are hunting money – not terrorists. This is the collapse of fiscal mismanagement. Forget the hyperinflation. These people will not go quietly into the night or light. They are kicking and screaming and will die like an insane madman in a violent oppression of the people.

You wrote more about that here:

Quote from: James A. Donald
Quote from: Winter
Indeed, probably due to plagues of various kinds

Pinker attributes the entire population decline to the fall of Rome, even though it set in before the fall or Rome.

In fact, what happened was that Rome was in financial trouble because, like much of Europe, it was taxing well above the Laffer limit. Well, thought Diocletian, if overtaxed people will not work, make them work. So he in large part instituted a command economy, which probably caused rises in the death rates for the usual reasons that we observe command economies killing people today and during the twentieth century. Basically, in a command economy, you have to murder people to get stuff done.

Before I was banned, I also rebutted Winter's theories on the decline of Rome here:

Quote from: JustSaying a.k.a. AnonyMint a.k.a. Shelby
@Winter:
You attempt to remove blame from the effects of top-down governance. Agriculture in Western Europe declined for numerous reasons all of which can be attributed to mismanagement due to top-down control and the funding of such misallocation. Socialized debt is a future tax. The agricultural sector was suffering under increasing taxes after the hyperinflation of the 3rd century had adversely impacted funding for the military while there were increasing military threats to the east. Pottery records indicate production increased through the 4th, as the rural sector was squeezed for every drop by Rome. As with all debt funding, growth was too rapid, and irrigation was polluted by clearing for too many new settlements. The resultant malnutrition, declining production, localized warlords, and thus disease coincided with the collapse of Western Europe due to the bankruptcy of its top-down militarized, servitude model.

We will likely find the same top-down cause applies to of all Dark Ages– even the famines in Africa.

And here:

Quote from: JustSaying a.k.a. AnonyMint a.k.a. Shelby
The population of Rome plummeted -97% from 1.4 million in 450AD to 40,000 over the next 1000+ years.[1]

Dark Ages where the population abandons cities occurred in Greece from 1600 – 1200BC (with coinage only re-appearing in 7th century BC), after the collapse of Rome that lasted 600 years, and in Japan for 600 years during which no coinage was created.[2]

[1] Sovereign Debt Crisis Conference, Armstrong
[2] Are we Headed into a Mad Max Scenario?, Armstrong
hero member
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August 06, 2013, 04:21:50 AM
#67
Well TOR has been proven a problem, and according to the recent incident it's been infected by either FBI or NSA, so that might be a problem.

Tor was designed to be compromised. We can do better:

http://blog.jim.com/economics/bitcoin-as-a-speculative-bet.html/comment-page-1#comment-342148
legendary
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Terminated.
August 06, 2013, 01:53:30 AM
#66
I'm not anonymous? *turns online 69 VP's*.

I have no idea what that means.

You can attempt to use Tor or other services to be anonymous while sending a spend transaction for Bitcoin (and other activities on the internet), but:

1. Most users don't figure that out

2. Tor isn't really anonymous (they traded low latency for higher anonymity)

3. After 2033, mining stops, so the only way to obtain coins anonymously is meeting someone in physical person (very risky).
Well TOR has been proven a problem, and according to the recent incident it's been infected by either FBI or NSA, so that might be a problem.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
August 06, 2013, 01:02:32 AM
#65
I'm not anonymous? *turns online 69 VP's*.

I have no idea what that means.

You can attempt to use Tor or other services to be anonymous while sending a spend transaction for Bitcoin (and other activities on the internet), but:

1. Most users don't figure that out

2. Tor isn't really anonymous (they traded away higher anonymity to get low latency)

3. After 2033, mining stops, so the only way to obtain coins anonymously is meeting someone in physical person (very risky).
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
August 04, 2013, 03:16:20 PM
#64
Do you think I care about your call for Bitcoin to go to $200, when I am writing about how you are going to lose it all because you are not anonymous and there will be a wealth tax. I am writing about how empires die. You are writing about speculation.

Get off my lawn child.
Quote
It's all legit trust me.
How did you not get this..

I'm not anonymous? *turns online 69 VP's*. Relax nothing againsts you, no offence, but I just don't like it. Entitled to the opinion. If i read it completly ever, there might be a different opinion on this.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
August 04, 2013, 02:40:17 PM
#63
Do you think I care about your call for Bitcoin to go to $200, when I am writing about how you are going to lose it all because you are not anonymous and there will be a wealth tax. I am writing about how empires die. You are writing about speculation.

Get off my lawn child.
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