No need to pay tax if you buy using bitcoin in Germany - page 2.

HabBear

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Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

Let's be clear that this rule likely only applies to German citizens. Germany can't make tax policy that would apply to the world and most tax obligations are driven by your Country of residence or citizenship.

I wonder if this move by Germany could influence tax treatment in countries throughout the European Union?

Can you share your source for this news?

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: tomahawk9 on March 01, 2018, 01:06:34 PM

OP, it would've better great if you posted a link so that other people can read the article: https://www.coindesk.com/germany-considers-crypto-legal-equivalent-to-fiat-for-tax-purposes/

This news could create a snowball effect in europe (it's Germany after all, not some small and irrelevant country) so it's a matter of time until other countries adopt the same policy around Bitcoin. Honestly though, we've been getting a lot of positive news about cryptocurrencies, so it's getting hard not to be bullish about Bitcoin everytime a news article gets published.

I totally agree, I’ve seen quite a few people posting news recently without quoting the source. I also agree that it is great news this is done by Germany, I hope some other countries follow the example.

Quote from: salterious on March 01, 2018, 01:07:55 PM

Don't know why we are celebrating this to be honest. When I first read it I thought it meant anything under certain price wouldn't be subject to capital gains tax, but after I read it properly it just means we won't get extra taxed. Why are we celebrating not getting extra taxed!? That should be the norm, we shouldn't be celebrating something like that. If we do, it just goes to show them how much farther they can push us back imho.

I am celebrating this because politicians in my country are specialists in multiple taxing people, it is the only country where they tax people for just holding bitcoin. If politicians in my country copy Germany’s measure and I avoid extra taxing I will celebrate it as a miracle.

salterious

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Don't know why we are celebrating this to be honest. When I first read it I thought it meant anything under certain price wouldn't be subject to capital gains tax, but after I read it properly it just means we won't get extra taxed. Why are we celebrating not getting extra taxed!? That should be the norm, we shouldn't be celebrating something like that. If we do, it just goes to show them how much farther they can push us back imho.

tomahawk9

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OP, it would've better great if you posted a link so that other people can read the article: https://www.coindesk.com/germany-considers-crypto-legal-equivalent-to-fiat-for-tax-purposes/

This news could create a snowball effect in europe (it's Germany after all, not some small and irrelevant country) so it's a matter of time until other countries adopt the same policy around Bitcoin. Honestly though, we've been getting a lot of positive news about cryptocurrencies, so it's getting hard not to be bullish about Bitcoin everytime a news article gets published.

BitcoinGuruOne

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Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction,

This seems straight forward, You have to pay VAT when paying with BTC, this is tax on every transaction as in case of fiat, isnt it?

In any case , it is the same as yu pay VAt when converting to FIAt, the total is the same ( if we assume the BTC price does not change).

FrueGreads

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Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

Those are very good news indeed for two reasons. Finally we see some relevant European countries taking a stance towards bitcoin in terms of regulation, because until now it wasn't clear what they were planning to do. Second, the measure taken, is much better than the one adopted by the United States so far, that want to charge bitcoin as property, resulting in massive taxes.

WUUEX79

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They are very lucky to have a government that way of thinking more advanced after japan and dutch. I hope that what the German finance minister will do will be followed by the finance minister in another country come out as a brave don't be a coward and just play in behind the scenes by spreading FUD.

talkbitcoin

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Quote from: Thanasis on March 01, 2018, 03:47:40 AM

Even now we don't need to pay any taxes to the crypto to crypto transaction because it is anonymous and no one knows that we are using it.

read again!
it is not crypto to crypto transactions that the news is talking about it is crypto to goods. for example if you buy a phone or a camera or a car or a cup of coffee with bitcoin, you don't have to pay any additional taxes.

this will create a huge incentive for merchants to adopt bitcoin. and if you like to know the effects of it, look at Japan and last year's growth in number of merchants (lots of offline stores) in Japan accepting bitcoin.

hugeblack

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Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.
For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

Can you give us the news source because most countries consider their currency to be the only legal tender?
Does this mean that they will not consider the Bitcoin as a commodity?"Because of the rise in the price of the Bitcoin "from 100$ to 10,000$", some countries are considered a taxable commodity"

This will not change much in the equation but it is good to hear such news.

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on March 01, 2018, 03:55:26 AM

Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

Mostly in any countries happened this one, like in our country the P2P transactions with any crypto will be tax free but once its converted to fiat using our local exchanges which are registered and licensed with the central bank then tax will be covered. But it will be nice if more countries will adapt like what germany and philippines do.

But why would they have no tax applied, they could at least try to get history of purchases from merchants and thus charge tax in fiat if not in USD. It is hard for me to believe that they will simply say there is not tax for bitcoin as by doing this they might start faster adoption and by doing this there is no benefit to them in terms of putting more money into their pockets. Country as a whole needs to function and most of it's activities are paid by taxes either way they will have to raise taxes eventually for living when bitcoin becomes more adopted if they don't want to tax goods now. There must be some trade-offs.

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This is a common sense approach. It is impossible to tax bitcoin unless it is converted into legal tender and used as such. There is so much fluctuation in price that you can be both over and under taxed in a short period of time.

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Quote from: Thanasis on March 01, 2018, 03:47:40 AM

Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

Even now we don't need to pay any taxes to the crypto to crypto transaction because it is anonymous and no one knows that we are using it.But the problem is when we convert our bitcoin or other crypto into fiat it will be recorded in our bank then we need to pay taxes.So it means still taxable right from your statement.

I think they lessen the tax for every transaction. As reading her statement they might have a tax before for every crypto transaction they had. Now the tax that they are paying is just the cash-in and cash-out of bitcoin. This is likely how in our country cash in and cash out, but not taxable on the government, but fee for the service of the system we had used.

ss890

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So it's like they are still tracking the transactions and getting Vat Out of it. I think that's kind of tax only. It's just that they are getting it as if bitcoin is considered as product or service. Anyway it is somewhat good news I believe because German government is declaring the legal use of bitcoin and you dont have to worry about the bans and shit. In various countries there is no tax at all because the regulations are not in line and financial systems have no problems with the whole idea of earnings. It really varies according to nation to nation.

bL4nkcode

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Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

Mostly in any countries happened this one, like in our country the P2P transactions with any crypto will be tax free but once its converted to fiat using our local exchanges which are registered and licensed with the central bank then tax will be covered. But it will be nice if more countries will adapt like what germany and philippines do.

marcau

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Seems like a good news, I wish the French government would do the same. It's great because it encourages Germans to use bitcoin for purchasing goods and services instead of just trading and then turning the BTC back to fiat. Increasing adoption is always good, even though many people will still hold on to their bitcoin because they expect it to go back to ATH by the summer.

lizardbtc

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Just wonder what will they do once people start to use bitcoin at mass level. It is good that it is not taxable but this really could hurt them in the long run or they will have to add another sources of income in future. Now it is still used in small quantities and this is why I do think it doesn't matter for them to try to tax it at this point, although it is nice to see that from this view Germany is making crypto "legal" if we take the info that they are not taxing which means you can buy stuff with it.

InahC

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Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

That's a good news, It is OK if you pay tax when you convert it at least it's only once, unlike what other government wants, that they wanted to tax all the transaction made by there people.

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Quote from: cryptolake on March 01, 2018, 03:37:47 AM

The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

Even now we don't need to pay any taxes to the crypto to crypto transaction because it is anonymous and no one knows that we are using it.But the problem is when we convert our bitcoin or other crypto into fiat it will be recorded in our bank then we need to pay taxes.So it means still taxable right from your statement.

cryptolake

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The ministry of finance has declared that bitcoin transactions will not be taxed!
Instead, Germany will regard bitcoin as the equivalent to legal tender for tax purposes when used as a means of payment, according to a new document.

For tax purposes, this means that converting bitcoin into a fiat currency or vice versa is "a taxable miscellaneous benefit." When a buyer of goods pays with bitcoin, an article of the EU's VAT Directive will be applied to the price of bitcoin at the time of the transaction, as documented by the seller, according to the document.

Topic: No need to pay tax if you buy using bitcoin in Germany - page 2. (Read 273 times)