No threads on the ETN? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

avikz

legendary

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Quote from: cellard on August 21, 2018, 09:48:41 AM

Everyone seems to be obsessed with the SEC's approval or rejection of the next phase of the ETF in a couple of days, which will be obviously dennied and my thesis is the market is smart enough to know this and so the rejection is already priced in which means there will be no dump.

However, no one seems to be talking about the ETN, which would allow investors immediate access to "BTC shares" without all the bullshit that the ETF needs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-15/lovelorn-u-s-bitcoin-etf-fans-may-find-satisfaction-in-sweden

More info there. Looks like it's already opened? didn't do much market wise.

ETNs are not exactly similar to ETFs. In ETN, the notes are traded with a significant amount of premium unlike ETF. For ETF, there is no premium to be paid on the price of the underlying asset. So ETF is more suitable for the small investors like us compared to ETN. Probably that is the reason we are not seeing much excitement about ETN among the community.

Also an ETN is usually backed by a physical asset. However, I am not sure in this case. Most probably this ETN is backed by physical bitcoins. That is the reason why we have not seen any impact on the market either.

darkangel11

legendary

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: stompix on August 22, 2018, 02:21:28 PM

The first line in that Bloomberg article sums up everything pretty nice, no need to read it all...

Quote

If you want to buy Bitcoin without actually buying Bitcoin

The same way you can buy gold and when the times comes you realize that you can't make even an engagement ring from the ten kilos of paper gold you have in your safe.

This is so shady. Since the SEC did not approve anything similar to that on US soil and the Swedish fund doesn't allow US citizens to invest, somebody had to find a way to go around it and instead of launching the ETF in the US it's launching a derivative of a fund that is not holding BTC, so it's also a derivative. So, a US citizen is buying a local derivative of a Swedish derivative that is based on the value of a volatile cryptocurrency. It's like an EU citizen lending money to someone in Africa through a third party based in India. How could this go wrong? Grin

gentlemand

legendary

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: jseverson on August 22, 2018, 04:26:44 AM

Worth noting that this has been available since 2017 and not many people cared then either:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/scandinavia-leads-europe-latest-bitcoin-exchange-traded-note-launch/

Then again, ETFs require the fund to actually hold the asset it tracks while ETNs don't, so the difference in hype may lie there. ETNs don't actually help the market while ETFs can.

This ETN is voluntarily backed 1-1 so it's not pure paper like many others. If it was taken up with a vengeance it would have a market effect.

Could this be a wee omen for any ETF that actually did pass? There've been many other things that were going to 'save' us like the LedgerX thing and nothing was heard from them again once they got going.

Nothing launched now will have much take up. Interest is dead. I expect this to see a major uptick in a bubble just like everything else.

darkangel11

legendary

Activity: 2296

Merit: 1335

Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: John_Davis on August 22, 2018, 03:17:53 PM

ETF's are a bit closer to the real thing, but if you want to invest in something, why don't you just buy the damned thing instead of paying your broker $30 a quarter and $10 a trade? Brokers are dinosaurs that are ready for mass extinction.

Physically backed ones are, but there's a ton of derivative-based ETFs that are applying. ONe of them is probably going to get rejected tomorrow. Just wait for the noobs to start selling when they hear the news. You know what is becoming the easiest way to part newbies with their coins? File for SEC approval and get rejected. It doesn't matter what idiocies you were proposing, idiots will sell hearing that the SEC does not approve of Bitcoin.

John_Davis

newbie

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Quote from: stompix on August 22, 2018, 02:21:28 PM

The first line in that Bloomberg article sums up everything pretty nice, no need to read it all...

Quote

If you want to buy Bitcoin without actually buying Bitcoin

The same way you can buy gold and when the times comes you realize that you can't make even an engagement ring from the ten kilos of paper gold you have in your safe.

And a second paragraph made me really laugh:

Quote

Unlike exchange-traded funds, ETNs are debt instruments that are backed by their issuers -- often a bank -- rather than a pool of assets and often focus on esoteric strategies that don’t easily fit in a fund.

That definitely convinced me to go all.....the way to the right corner and close that page Grin

Who writes this stuff?

Esoteric!! Oh boy, I haven't had that good of a laugh at Bloomberg in a long time. Those fools are just writing fluff in hopes that some dumb fool feels the need to purchase their $5000 a month "news" platform.

ETN is exactly what the market does not need. That's just another step closer to a fractional reserve type currency where they just sell the air you breathe and call it an asset. Useless.

ETF's are a bit closer to the real thing, but if you want to invest in something, why don't you just buy the damned thing instead of paying your broker $30 a quarter and $10 a trade? Brokers are dinosaurs that are ready for mass extinction.

stompix

legendary

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Blackjack.fun

The first line in that Bloomberg article sums up everything pretty nice, no need to read it all...

Quote

If you want to buy Bitcoin without actually buying Bitcoin

The same way you can buy gold and when the times comes you realize that you can't make even an engagement ring from the ten kilos of paper gold you have in your safe.

And a second paragraph made me really laugh:

Quote

Unlike exchange-traded funds, ETNs are debt instruments that are backed by their issuers -- often a bank -- rather than a pool of assets and often focus on esoteric strategies that don’t easily fit in a fund.

That definitely convinced me to go all.....the way to the right corner and close that page Grin

Who writes this stuff?

jseverson

hero member

Activity: 1834

Merit: 759

Worth noting that this has been available since 2017 and not many people cared then either:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/scandinavia-leads-europe-latest-bitcoin-exchange-traded-note-launch/

Then again, ETFs require the fund to actually hold the asset it tracks while ETNs don't, so the difference in hype may lie there. ETNs don't actually help the market while ETFs can.

LeGaulois

copper member

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Top Crypto Casino

It's only a 1-week old product and no hype about it. Pretty sure most people don't know about it (including me). That's why we don't see any major movement to the market. This said it can be a great alternative to ETFs

pempek19

jr. member

Activity: 98

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Waiting for a great news for bitcoin, it will be "to the moon again? No one knows, but i trust it must be happen.

cellard

legendary

Activity: 1372

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Everyone seems to be obsessed with the SEC's approval or rejection of the next phase of the ETF in a couple of days, which will be obviously dennied and my thesis is the market is smart enough to know this and so the rejection is already priced in which means there will be no dump.

However, no one seems to be talking about the ETN, which would allow investors immediate access to "BTC shares" without all the bullshit that the ETF needs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-15/lovelorn-u-s-bitcoin-etf-fans-may-find-satisfaction-in-sweden

More info there. Looks like it's already opened? didn't do much market wise.

Topic: No threads on the ETN? - page 2. (Read 278 times)