Noam Chomsky - Anarchism and misguided Libertarians - page 2.

polychenko

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Quote from: Spendulus on August 01, 2015, 03:14:48 PM

Well, guess what. It did in fact do that in certain places. And then it self corrected...

Hasn't worked well for healthcare - UK consensus among healthcare experts is that there is little/no role of private companies in healthcare provision. Growing consensus also for train transport given lack of competition that can realistically occur on 1 line.

Quote

Just curious. If we all followed your moral advice, and disallowed what you call "racist stuff," then wouldn't the counter argument to your advocacy of progressive social spending (your words "societal investment") be quashed before it was heard?

Seems that would not be good, right?

If I understand you right, I think this is about whether racist opinions should be heard and ignored or banned. Usually the former I'd say. I think the argument is that one can listen to then dismiss racism arguments as being very flawed and toxic. Agree that censoring those views perhaps not helpful, may re-inforce their paranoia.

vokain

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Spendulus

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Quote from: blablahblah on August 01, 2015, 12:43:24 PM

Well, guess what. The free market chose government as the most efficient means of doing large-scale stuff.

Well, guess what. It did in fact do that in certain places. And then it self corrected...

lol...

Quote from: polychenko on August 01, 2015, 03:12:38 PM

Quote from: saddampbuh on August 01, 2015, 01:53:53 PM

Quote from: blablahblah on August 01, 2015, 12:39:23 PM

Nobody likes being taxed, period.

Part of the problem with US Libertarian idealists is that they've got this elaborate (yet flaky) house-of-cards built up about how politics and the economy and everything "ought" to be, but at the same time they've got these huge blind spots such as opportunity cost.

Thanks to your tax dollars, those welfare queens and their 6 kids aren't hungry enough to murder you in the street for a small amount of pocket money, or just for the protein. Yeah, yeah... you'd much rather have the "freedom" to spend those tax dollars on a private security company to save your ass from being attacked in the streets (and endless toll roads and related shit). And of course that would be far more efficient than public/state services, because free-market competition and stuff, just like Bitcoin miners -- LOL. .

i'm not a libertarian nor do i mind being taxed, i do mind being taxed to support whore black welfare queens when they could easily be sent somewhere else or sterilised

I think this racist stuff should be removed or ignored in this thread (in fact from the civilised world in general). Why bring race into it? Black people didn't like being slaved for hundreds of years, then being born into households with little income, wealth, education, or social connections that others take for granted.

blablahblah hit a few nails on the head. Also a matter of short term thinking among libertarian idealists - instead of long-term societal investment via tax (however inefficient), they'd prefer money in the bank now and their children growing up in an apartheid. Not too far off though in the US at the moment, even amongst sunny Yale: http://www.naacpnewhaven.org/wp-content/uploads/NAACP_UrbanApartheid_print_final.pdf

Just curious. If we all followed your moral advice, and disallowed what you call "racist stuff," then wouldn't the counter argument to your advocacy of progressive social spending (your words "societal investment") be quashed before it was heard?

Seems that would not be good, right?

polychenko

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Quote from: saddampbuh on August 01, 2015, 01:53:53 PM

Quote from: blablahblah on August 01, 2015, 12:39:23 PM

Nobody likes being taxed, period.

Part of the problem with US Libertarian idealists is that they've got this elaborate (yet flaky) house-of-cards built up about how politics and the economy and everything "ought" to be, but at the same time they've got these huge blind spots such as opportunity cost.

Thanks to your tax dollars, those welfare queens and their 6 kids aren't hungry enough to murder you in the street for a small amount of pocket money, or just for the protein. Yeah, yeah... you'd much rather have the "freedom" to spend those tax dollars on a private security company to save your ass from being attacked in the streets (and endless toll roads and related shit). And of course that would be far more efficient than public/state services, because free-market competition and stuff, just like Bitcoin miners -- LOL. .

i'm not a libertarian nor do i mind being taxed, i do mind being taxed to support whore black welfare queens when they could easily be sent somewhere else or sterilised

I think this racist stuff should be removed or ignored in this thread (in fact from the civilised world in general). Why bring race into it? Black people didn't like being slaved for hundreds of years, then being born into households with little income, wealth, education, or social connections that others take for granted.

blablahblah hit a few nails on the head. Also a matter of short term thinking among libertarian idealists - instead of long-term societal investment via tax (however inefficient), they'd prefer money in the bank now and their children growing up in an apartheid. Not too far off though in the US at the moment, even amongst sunny Yale: http://www.naacpnewhaven.org/wp-content/uploads/NAACP_UrbanApartheid_print_final.pdf

saddampbuh

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Quote from: blablahblah on August 01, 2015, 12:39:23 PM

Nobody likes being taxed, period.

Part of the problem with US Libertarian idealists is that they've got this elaborate (yet flaky) house-of-cards built up about how politics and the economy and everything "ought" to be, but at the same time they've got these huge blind spots such as opportunity cost.

Thanks to your tax dollars, those welfare queens and their 6 kids aren't hungry enough to murder you in the street for a small amount of pocket money, or just for the protein. Yeah, yeah... you'd much rather have the "freedom" to spend those tax dollars on a private security company to save your ass from being attacked in the streets (and endless toll roads and related shit). And of course that would be far more efficient than public/state services, because free-market competition and stuff, just like Bitcoin miners -- LOL. .

i'm not a libertarian nor do i mind being taxed, i do mind being taxed to support whore black welfare queens when they could easily be sent somewhere else or sterilised

blablahblah

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Well, guess what. The free market chose government as the most efficient means of doing large-scale stuff.

blablahblah

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Quote from: saddampbuh on August 01, 2015, 04:50:44 AM

might be because america has the highest proportion of non white parasitic minorities in the developed world. people don't like being taxed to support black welfare queens with 6 kids by different men.

Nobody likes being taxed, period.

Part of the problem with US Libertarian idealists is that they've got this elaborate (yet flaky) house-of-cards built up about how politics and the economy and everything "ought" to be, but at the same time they've got these huge blind spots such as opportunity cost.

Thanks to your tax dollars, those welfare queens and their 6 kids aren't hungry enough to murder you in the street for a small amount of pocket money, or just for the protein. Yeah, yeah... you'd much rather have the "freedom" to spend those tax dollars on a private security company to save your ass from being attacked in the streets (and endless toll roads and related shit). And of course that would be far more efficient than public/state services, because free-market competition and stuff, just like Bitcoin miners -- LOL. .

Krang

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Americans to me seem to tend to either not know what socialism or libertarianism is or they have a completely different definition of the rest of the world (and Chomsky says something similar). They always seem to think socialism is some great evil but that's because they just believe the fearmongering and propoganda.

TECSHARE

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First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Beliathon on August 01, 2015, 09:49:06 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on August 01, 2015, 09:44:06 AM

Quote from: Beliathon on August 01, 2015, 07:43:38 AM

First of all, this isn't America's obsession. Libertarians are a vocal minority on the internet. They come from Christian conservative Republican parents and they're trying to rebel by using this weak platform of "social liberalism, economic conservativism", this platform totally ignores the reality that economics (distribution of resources) IS the most social issue of all!

Said the socialist. Socialism is well known for its excellent sustainable economic models Wink

My new world is only in the early fetal stages of life, its birth is still some years away, rest assured though, it will be born from the corpse of capitalism.

So what you are saying is the socialism of the past was never true socialism?

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: TECSHARE on August 01, 2015, 09:44:06 AM

Quote from: Beliathon on August 01, 2015, 07:43:38 AM

First of all, this isn't America's obsession. Libertarians are a vocal minority on the internet. They come from Christian conservative Republican parents and they're trying to rebel by using this weak platform of "social liberalism, economic conservativism", this platform totally ignores the reality that economics (distribution of resources) IS the most social issue of all!

Said the socialist. Socialism is well known for its excellent sustainable economic models Wink

My new world is only in the early fetal stages of life, its birth is still some years away, rest assured though, it will be born from the corpse of capitalism.

TECSHARE

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Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Beliathon on August 01, 2015, 07:43:38 AM

First of all, this isn't America's obsession. Libertarians are a vocal minority on the internet. They come from Christian conservative Republican parents and they're trying to rebel by using this weak platform of "social liberalism, economic conservativism", this platform totally ignores the reality that economics (distribution of resources) IS the most social issue of all!

Said the socialist. Socialism is well known for its excellent sustainable economic models Wink

Spendulus

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Quote from: polychenko on August 01, 2015, 02:24:06 AM

"what’s called libertarian in the United States, which is a special U. S. phenomenon, it doesn’t really exist anywhere else — a little bit in England — permits a very high level of authority and domination but in the hands of private power: so private power should be unleashed to do whatever it likes. The assumption is that by some kind of magic, concentrated private power will lead to a more free and just society...

just a call for some of the worst kinds of tyranny, namely unaccountable private tyranny."

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/noam-chomsky-kind-anarchism-i-believe-and-whats-wrong-libertarians?sc=fb

Hard to put semantics to one side in terms of correct definition of libertarianism send anarchism, but above statement seems an important point. Why America's obsession with libertarianism?!

While the conservative political movement has many brilliant thinkers, the Left has only one - Noam Chomsky. For this reason the article is worth reading. He is rather boring, though. Nim Chimsky I prefer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim_Chimpsky

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: polychenko on August 01, 2015, 02:24:06 AM

Why America's obsession with libertarianism?!

First of all, this isn't America's obsession. Libertarians are a vocal minority on the internet. They come from Christian conservative Republican parents and they're trying to rebel by using this weak platform of "social liberalism, economic conservativism", this platform totally ignores the reality that economics (distribution of resources) IS the most social issue of all!

There's also a powerful strain of Randian insanity at play.

saddampbuh

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might be because america has the highest proportion of non white parasitic minorities in the developed world. people don't like being taxed to support black welfare queens with 6 kids by different men.

polychenko

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"what’s called libertarian in the United States, which is a special U. S. phenomenon, it doesn’t really exist anywhere else — a little bit in England — permits a very high level of authority and domination but in the hands of private power: so private power should be unleashed to do whatever it likes. The assumption is that by some kind of magic, concentrated private power will lead to a more free and just society...

just a call for some of the worst kinds of tyranny, namely unaccountable private tyranny."

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/noam-chomsky-kind-anarchism-i-believe-and-whats-wrong-libertarians?sc=fb

Hard to put semantics to one side in terms of correct definition of libertarianism send anarchism, but above statement seems an important point. Why America's obsession with libertarianism?!

Topic: Noam Chomsky - Anarchism and misguided Libertarians - page 2. (Read 1678 times)