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Topic: "Node war" possible with spoofed version strings? (Read 3541 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Thanks for admitting you were wrong about NotXT backfiring.
Yes, I do admit that I was wrong (I am not an egotistic bastard who thinks he's always right  Tongue). But of course, things didn't happen the way that I though they would when I made that assumption. I figured that it would backfire if a large number of people began running NotXT, which didn't happen.

We don't know what percentage of self-reported XT nodes are fake.  Maybe 99% of "XT" nodes were/are spoofed!   Tongue

That's the point of it existing.  The Gavinistas had no good way to tell them apart.  That's why I said NotXT "worked like a charm."  It fulfilled its function of FUD creation, which by definition (the Uncertainty and Doubt in FUD) precludes us from knowing the exact or even rough percentages involved.
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
Thanks for admitting you were wrong about NotXT backfiring.
Yes, I do admit that I was wrong (I am not an egotistic bastard who thinks he's always right  Tongue). But of course, things didn't happen the way that I though they would when I made that assumption. I figured that it would backfire if a large number of people began running NotXT, which didn't happen.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I am not a fan of XT, and I don't like how the devs are fighting.
However I do expect that NotXT will backfire.

So much for your expectation that NotXT will backfire.

It worked like a charm!  XT is deader than disco.

The devs were right to fight the Gavinista attempted governance coup, regardless of your sanctimonious disapproval.

The only thing that backfired was your crystal-ball gazing.   Grin
Are you sure that it worked? Just because XT is pretty much dead doesn't mean that NotXT did its job. Can you provide proof that XT died due to this? And NotXT didn't necessarily do its job either.

tsoPANos' claim was "NotXT will backfire."

Where is the evidence NotXT backfired?

If NotXT backfired, wouldn't XT still be alive?

I'm sorry you missed the memorable spectacle of NotXT completely demoralizing the already beleaguered Gavinistas (in their hour of greatest need).

It was hilarious.   Cool
While NotXT didn't backfire, you cannot say that just because XT died that that was due to NotXT. You cannot substantiate that claim. XT could have died for a number of other reasons, not  because if NotXT

Thanks for admitting you were wrong about NotXT backfiring.

I didn't say XT died solely due to NotXT.  But you have fun tearing apart the strawman who said NotXT killed XT all by itself!   Cheesy
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
I am not a fan of XT, and I don't like how the devs are fighting.
However I do expect that NotXT will backfire.

So much for your expectation that NotXT will backfire.

It worked like a charm!  XT is deader than disco.

The devs were right to fight the Gavinista attempted governance coup, regardless of your sanctimonious disapproval.

The only thing that backfired was your crystal-ball gazing.   Grin
Are you sure that it worked? Just because XT is pretty much dead doesn't mean that NotXT did its job. Can you provide proof that XT died due to this? And NotXT didn't necessarily do its job either.

tsoPANos' claim was "NotXT will backfire."

Where is the evidence NotXT backfired?

If NotXT backfired, wouldn't XT still be alive?

I'm sorry you missed the memorable spectacle of NotXT completely demoralizing the already beleaguered Gavinistas (in their hour of greatest need).

It was hilarious.   Cool
While NotXT didn't backfire, you cannot say that just because XT died that that was due to NotXT. You cannot substantiate that claim. XT could have died for a number of other reasons, not  because if NotXT
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013
All time history of XT nodes. (Pretty dull)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I am not a fan of XT, and I don't like how the devs are fighting.
However I do expect that NotXT will backfire.

So much for your expectation that NotXT will backfire.

It worked like a charm!  XT is deader than disco.

The devs were right to fight the Gavinista attempted governance coup, regardless of your sanctimonious disapproval.

The only thing that backfired was your crystal-ball gazing.   Grin
Are you sure that it worked? Just because XT is pretty much dead doesn't mean that NotXT did its job. Can you provide proof that XT died due to this? And NotXT didn't necessarily do its job either.

tsoPANos' claim was "NotXT will backfire."

Where is the evidence NotXT backfired?

If NotXT backfired, wouldn't XT still be alive?

I'm sorry you missed the memorable spectacle of NotXT completely demoralizing the already beleaguered Gavinistas (in their hour of greatest need).

It was hilarious.   Cool
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
I am not a fan of XT, and I don't like how the devs are fighting.
However I do expect that NotXT will backfire.

So much for your expectation that NotXT will backfire.

It worked like a charm!  XT is deader than disco.

The devs were right to fight the Gavinista attempted governance coup, regardless of your sanctimonious disapproval.

The only thing that backfired was your crystal-ball gazing.   Grin
Are you sure that it worked? Just because XT is pretty much dead doesn't mean that NotXT did its job. Can you provide proof that XT died due to this? And NotXT didn't necessarily do its job either.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I am not a fan of XT, and I don't like how the devs are fighting.
However I do expect that NotXT will backfire.

So much for your expectation that NotXT will backfire.

It worked like a charm!  XT is deader than disco.

The devs were right to fight the Gavinista attempted governance coup, regardless of your sanctimonious disapproval.

The only thing that backfired was your crystal-ball gazing.   Grin
sr. member
Activity: 362
Merit: 262
Another way to spot bitcoinxt nodes is with the service flag.  Returned via getpeerinfo.
They return a different service flag (3 if I recall).  This is related to some of the other changes in XT not related to the blocksize debate.
Don't think it will spot the bitcoin core + 101 nodes (i.e. not XT nodes) as they don't have that service flag.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
An attempt to sabotage the process is a sure sign that the anti-BitcoinXT people fully understand that they would lose in a fair consensus decision.  

And, to me, that means the consensus decision (the real one) has already been made and now there's nothing left for them but this kind of screaming and FUD tactics and trying to prevent people from accurately seeing what the decision is.  

Oh right, if not for "sabotage" XT would have surely won the day.   Roll Eyes

What a rich fantasy world your imagination has constructed.  Meanwhile, back in reality:

Quote
“the whole ‘Bitcoin’ XT thing is manipulation,” Chun said. “the Bitcoin Core and ‘Bitcoin’ XT issue is political. By introducing ‘Bitcoin’ XT, Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn are splitting the community. Totalitarianism and dictators cannot co-exist with the free and open-source software spirit.”

[f2pool's] Chun’s opposition wasn’t subtle.

Boycott ‘Bitcoin’ XT. Bitcoin Core forever. Gavin Andresen and Mike Hearn should resign,” he said.

Quote
BitFury CEO Valery Vavilov told Bitcoin Magazine: “The Bitcoin Blockchain is not an amateur project anymore – it is becoming a platform for the Global Economy of Things. Changing the base rules can affect a lot of things, thus, any changes should be done very carefully, gradually, and with tests.”

He added: “The proposed transition to the alternative client raises some concerns about its security: It is well known that key parts of the default Bitcoin Core client were thoroughly checked and sometimes formally verified, which cannot be said about alternative clients – including Bitcoin XT.”
Quote
Speaking to Bitcoin Magazine, BTCChina’s Mikael Wang made it clear that his mining pool is not prepared to make a switch to Bitcoin XT. The Chinese pool that contributes 13 percent of hashing power to the network maintains that a consensus should be found among Bitcoin Core developers on how and when to raise the block-size limit.

We will not support Bitcoin XT,” Wang said. “What the Bitcoin community needs now is stability and growth, and we will not do anything to jeopardize this further.”

Quote
U.S.-based Eligius, accounting for 5 percent of hashing power on the Bitcoin network, is another fierce opponent of Bitcoin XT and has no plans to make a switch. Much like F2Pool, Eligius’ owner who goes by the pseudonym “wizkid057” does not even consider Bitcoin XT a Bitcoin implementation – rather an altcoin.

Speaking to Bitcoin Magazine, wizkid057 said, “I see no reason to mine yet another altcoin: ‘Bitcoin XT’ is not Bitcoin.

Blaming NotXT for your Gavinista putsch getting fukkin' rekt?  Weak sauce.

Go cry to your buddies at bitco.in and voat/bitcoinxt!

legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087

I must be missing something, but I thought the fork depended on blocks
mined, not on number of nodes.

So maybe the anti-XT party could spend some electricity to
mine "fake" XT blocks in order to produce illusion of 75% goal
reached. But would that really accomplish anything? Undecided miners might
still jump on the bandwagon.

Yes, the XT's fork is triggered by 750/1000 last blocks self-reporting their version as XT.

Mining fake XT blocks generates the same reward as real XT or plain old 1MB blocks, so it's not a waste of power.

But would that really accomplish anything?  We don't know!  That's the point of NotXT.   Grin

Even with perfectly accurate metrics, being the first to defect from Bitcoin consensus (IE accept XTcoins) is risky.

In this fog of war, with its weaponized version strings, such first mover defections are an extremely brave leap of faith.

Oooh FUD. SCAAAAARY!
full member
Activity: 157
Merit: 103
Salí para ver
I'm really worried about a miners-war rather than node-war.  Sad
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
i dont think any pool will run NoXT fake versions.
if you are a miner: would you stay with a pool, when you know it has lied to YOU?

because as a miner you have to think you are mining XT blocks when your pool says so. if - after the fork - you see that he didnt and simply lied wouldnt you just switch to a honest pool?

nodes may be faked; but most of the hashrate is real. i am sure.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
The strategy is to get the 6 largest pools (except Eligius) on board and it's over 75%. Rest of the miners can spoof version strings all they need and it wouldn't matter. It not a node war, it's a pool war.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1132

Also wouldn't you need some big pool operators to collaborate?
Ok, I can think of one  Wink who might be up for this kind of thing but
even he'd have to think how his miners feel about it (well, maybe).


Get serious.  He has a long history of not giving a crap how his miners feel about things.
legendary
Activity: 996
Merit: 1013

Mining fake XT blocks generates the same reward as real XT or plain old 1MB blocks, so it's not a waste of power.

But would that really accomplish anything?  We don't know!  That's the point of NotXT.   Grin

Even with perfectly accurate metrics, being the first to defect from Bitcoin consensus (IE accept XTcoins) is risky.

In this fog of war, with its weaponized version strings, such first mover defections are an extremely brave leap of faith.

The scheme seems to me little like buying tickets to a concert
with no intent to show up. Hoping that the band will be demoralized
when faced with empty seats. But that could backfire, when other
people learn about ticket pre-sales, they might want to see what's so hot..

Also wouldn't you need some big pool operators to collaborate?
Ok, I can think of one  Wink who might be up for this kind of thing but
even he'd have to think how his miners feel about it (well, maybe).


legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Ever heard How Reddit Got Huge?
I do expect that NotXT will backfire.

'We fake it, until they make it' is certainly a factor.

But every bit of faked support gives the economic veto power (IE MPEX's GavinCoin short) more leverage.

I don't think it will even get to that point.

If NotXT (and the devastating addition risk it creates for first mover defections) doesn't sufficiently demoralize the Gavinistas, the FUD about XT's hidden anti-Tor/pro-panopticon code will.   Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

I must be missing something, but I thought the fork depended on blocks
mined, not on number of nodes.

So maybe the anti-XT party could spend some electricity to
mine "fake" XT blocks in order to produce illusion of 75% goal
reached. But would that really accomplish anything? Undecided miners might
still jump on the bandwagon.

Yes, the XT's fork is triggered by 750/1000 last blocks self-reporting their version as XT.

Mining fake XT blocks generates the same reward as real XT or plain old 1MB blocks, so it's not a waste of power.

But would that really accomplish anything?  We don't know!  That's the point of NotXT.   Grin

Even with perfectly accurate metrics, being the first to defect from Bitcoin consensus (IE accept XTcoins) is risky.

In this fog of war, with its weaponized version strings, such first mover defections are an extremely brave leap of faith.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
An attempt to sabotage the process is a sure sign that the anti-BitcoinXT people fully understand that they would lose in a fair consensus decision. 

And, to me, that means the consensus decision (the real one) has already been made and now there's nothing left for them but this kind of screaming and FUD tactics and trying to prevent people from accurately seeing what the decision is. 

Don't worry, we'll see what the decision is.  But only after goading GavinCoin into a trap from which it cannot escape.   Cheesy

Heam says XT, we say sabotage.  We say NotXT, you say sabotage.

NotXT is simply a contentious fork of Heam's contentious XT fork.  Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
In math we trust.

I must be missing something, but I thought the fork depended on blocks
mined, not on number of nodes.

So maybe the anti-XT party could spend some electricity to
mine "fake" XT blocks in order to produce illusion of 75% goal
reached. But would that really accomplish anything? Undecided miners might
still jump on the bandwagon.


Well that will not cause premature >1mb blocks, as they are scheduled no earlier than 11 Jan 2016.
However it could cause the fork to occur on 11 jan 2016 without consensus. If for example 50% of the miners were XT, 25% NotBitcoinXT and the rest Core, then the fork could happen and spawn two chains with equal hash power. This could be detrimental to Bitcoin has we have previously established that such a fork is not a good thing.
It doesn't really matter to me if 25% of nodes were NotBitcoinXT and 50% XT.
That totals 75%. It is enough to trigger an unsuccessful fork attempt in 11 JAN 2016, and
at the same time enough to trigger a new wave of XT adoption.
Don't underestimate the power of mass controlling peoples psychology.
NotBitcoinXT causes harm to core. It will make it appear that XT has a wider adoption than the reality, and thus gaining more supporters.

Ever heard How Reddit Got Huge?

I am not a fan of XT, and I don't like how the devs are fighting.
However I do expect that NotXT will backfire.
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