Not Declaring Bitcoin Income - page 9.

coin_1122

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 26, 2017, 03:10:37 AM

Quote from: CaliforniaCrypto on October 24, 2017, 11:51:45 PM

You can always go the localbitcoin route and trade it for FIAT in person without a bank.

But the record will exist in Localbitcoins, right? And nowadays, LBC is asking for tier 2 verification, which includes ID documents and other details. I would advice anyone who doesn't want to pay taxes on Bitcoin profits to travel to a country like Thailand or Indonesia, and then sell their coins for fiat cash.

It is not possible without paying taxes, the government will scan everyone banks for transacting the bulk amounts. So it is always good to pay taxes on Bitcoin transaction so that government will understand to legalize the Bitcoin.

virtfund

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The government can track the gain you get from Bitcoin . When you convert Bitcoin to the currency in a local stock exchange, when you transfer money to your bank account, it is clear that your bank account has earned the money from digital money. If you did not file a tax declaration for this money, you may have to pay taxes retroactively if this is later detected by the finance.

planewhat

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Quote from: iamTom123 on August 17, 2017, 09:53:03 AM

Here in my country which is now an upcoming tiger economy (though we are still classified as a third-world country), we are free to participate in Bitcoin both buying and selling as the government is treating Bitcoin just like any other foreiign money.

However, I am sure that only a very, very small fraction of us are declaring our Bitcoin income. It seems to me that the government is not that interested to get strict with individuals as long as they can tax the Bitcoin exchange provider for the service rendered.

I am then wondering the situation with other countries. Can your government really be able to track if you never declared gains made from Bitcoin transactions?

While bitcoin is not completely anonymous, it's still less trackable than bank transactions. If you choose not to pay taxes, good luck op.

ismart1

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Make a difference, make it better.

Quote from: countryfree on August 20, 2017, 01:00:54 PM

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 17, 2017, 09:53:03 AM

Can your government really be able to track if you never declared gains made from Bitcoin transactions?

Your government, like every government in the world is monitoring all bank transactions, that's enough for now. With time and effort, I'm sure a government could also monitor the blockchain, but I guess this isn't a priority as of today. The European Union is already talking about it, though.

New technologies will always hard on regulation, this happened to Uber in several countries, in Brazil, they even prohibited for hours a couple of time the app Whatsapp when they implanted cryptography in the conversations. The blockchain is public all right, but new developments are making more and more difficult this traceability, for example, new apps wallets are creating a different address automatically for every new deposit and implementing Lightning Network, obscuration and other technologies that will make transaction completely anonymous. So, probably they will keep track on the very end when it comes to the fiat side or similar.

crzy

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I will surely not declare all my earning here because this is how supposed to be, bitcoin is decentralized and Government will surely not know how much your profit is. Well i can easily convert my btc into fiat.

Snub

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Quote from: J. Cooper on October 30, 2017, 11:37:48 AM

Not the mention the fact that at some pont in time your government might be able to backtrack all your previous transactions and charge you for money laundering.

The most important point here is how you transfer your bitcoins in cash, or in some product.
Tere are so many ways to sell bitcoins without leaving a physical trail... You just have to remember that if you want to hide your bitcoins - never buy thomething that will have your name on the check

J. Cooper

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Quote from: BillCoin on October 30, 2017, 11:17:18 AM

You can always sell the bitcoins to cash and then it would be impossible to track you up.

Also remember that as long as you don't sell back your bitcoins into fiat, you won't need to pay any tax fees or to declare anything.

In my country, it is impossible to declare about profits from bitcoin because the country simply doesn't recognize the currency, so no one actually pays any taxes.

At most of the countries, bitcoin is count as an asset and you will need to pay taxes as you were trading a house or something like that.

And to whom would you be selling it to then? In a lot of cases you will have to provide some sort of identification in order to go through with a transaction. Not the mention the fact that at some pont in time your government might be able to backtrack all your previous transactions and charge you for money laundering.

BillCoin

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You can always sell the bitcoins to cash and then it would be impossible to track you up.

Also remember that as long as you don't sell back your bitcoins into fiat, you won't need to pay any tax fees or to declare anything.

In my country, it is impossible to declare about profits from bitcoin because the country simply doesn't recognize the currency, so no one actually pays any taxes.

At most of the countries, bitcoin is count as an asset and you will need to pay taxes as you were trading a house or something like that.

migolmigol

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Yes. Most will not declare it as it is also not being traced by the government. For now, since the government has not yet imposed specific tax on Bitcoins, the tax is paid through personal income tax. Which is filed and declared in an honest basis. Bitcoin earning is not only the one being evaded, but mostly all the business owners. There are a lot of ways to evade tax. That is why the government in the future might regulate or impose a specific tax for Bitcoins especially now that it is getting stronger in value.

GreenBits

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please see here:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/1241/text#toc-idea0e9489fc8f46379f95bb56c8bbbda5

to sum that up in real people words,

Quote

Bitcoin is evil.

Now they’ve gone so far to include prepaid mobile phones, retail gift vouchers, or even electronic coupons. Evil, evil, and evil.

Among the bill’s sweeping provisions, the government aims to greatly extend its authority to seize your assets through “Civil Asset Forfeiture”.

This new bill adds a laundry list of offenses for which they can legally seize your assets… all of which pertain to money laundering and other financial crimes.

Here’s the thing, though: they’ve also vastly expanded on the definition of such ‘financial crimes’, including failure to fill out a form if you happen to be transporting more than $10,000 worth of ‘monetary instruments’.

so if you convert that bitcoin to any other asset class that has real world value, you will be subject to taxation. and failure to observe that tax will make you criminally liable. and with the ability to lose more than the contested funds, you are actually running a fair risk of fucking clean up.

just pay the bastards the money if it is over the reporting threshold. make your life easier.

aesma

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fly or die

Well you must live there then, because you'll get local currency. Also, travelling with a suitcase full of cash is usually illegal (and risky).

My plan is to create a small company doing some legitimate crypto business, maybe a variation of LBC trading, and simply fudge the numbers a bit to convert some of my stash into declared, taxed income. The state is getting its taxes so it should be happy.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: CaliforniaCrypto on October 24, 2017, 11:51:45 PM

You can always go the localbitcoin route and trade it for FIAT in person without a bank.

But the record will exist in Localbitcoins, right? And nowadays, LBC is asking for tier 2 verification, which includes ID documents and other details. I would advice anyone who doesn't want to pay taxes on Bitcoin profits to travel to a country like Thailand or Indonesia, and then sell their coins for fiat cash.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: ?? on ??

You can use a bitcoinmixer service prior to exchanging them for fiat money and send the money to your bank account. In this case the government can basiscally not trace how much you have gained from bitcoin trading, except you have used a domestic exchange that has verified your identity and that has to report to the tax authorities if you reached a certain limit.

If your inland bank will report your fiat money deposits to the local authorities, then this could be another possibility for your government to check your earnings and tax them.

You are wrong.
In case of an undisclosed income investigation it's not the government that is required to prove the sources of your income but you! They will ask you to disclose the origin of the money. Normally you'd say that you earned it from an employer or got it as a gift, but in such case you're still required to pay income tax. How will you explain large money coming from a bank account of an exchange? That these are your money that you sent there for trading? They will ask you to prove it and if you fail to produce evidence they'll assume it wasn't taxed and do it for you at a higher rate Wink

Nahl

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bitcoin not fully anonymous and every address can be trackable moreover the address which come from the official exchange because in my county there are some term to get verified account to optimize the features from the particular exchange and provide personal ID is necessary so if the government asking the data members from that exchange then every person will be identified and directly government will know our earnings from bitcoin

CaliforniaCrypto

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You can always go the localbitcoin route and trade it for FIAT in person without a bank.

aslanpi

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What is going on here :

Theb

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Quote from: warrior333 on October 17, 2017, 09:16:24 AM

Quote from: cryptojac17 on October 17, 2017, 07:16:20 AM

Quote from: MiF on October 13, 2017, 06:23:07 AM

Quote from: iamTom123 on August 17, 2017, 09:53:03 AM

Here in my country which is now an upcoming tiger economy (though we are still classified as a third-world country), we are free to participate in Bitcoin both buying and selling as the government is treating Bitcoin just like any other foreiign money.

However, I am sure that only a very, very small fraction of us are declaring our Bitcoin income. It seems to me that the government is not that interested to get strict with individuals as long as they can tax the Bitcoin exchange provider for the service rendered.

I am then wondering the situation with other countries. Can your government really be able to track if you never declared gains made from Bitcoin transactions?

This is the one reason why nations should legalized bitcoin because they will gain bitcoin income tax in which a little bit frustrations to some bitcoin enthusiast because there profit will be deducted but i think this is fair because income thru fiat was tax collectable too. All tax imposed by the government are good as long as it was used for the welfare of their people that is why they should be honest in declaring bitcoin income but if it will just to be stolen thru corruption that is bad and I'm against it.

As of now my country has no question about the legality of BTC transaction seems like fiat that you can cash out money in any bank, but yes legalization of BTC is somehow one of the best option for us to declare our income to the government for taxes, because what I seen if we will just keep it this way that we just keep our income incognito to the government the time may come that they will question the legality of our income. Specially that we have a law that is called anti laundering law. And as good citizen we should share our in come to the government in the form of taxes for the welfare of the people who needed it.

Any law on money laundering is applicable to Fiat. Bitcoin is not recognized as a government currency and therefore can not be income. If you keep your bitcoins there are no problems with the law you will not. If you cashed them through the exchange for dollars is the income earned outside of your state and also should not be taxed. But best of all if it is possible to spend bitcoins in the online store.

The legality of Bitcoin is not important in order to be deemed taxable. Heck even income earned from marijuana and cocaine is taxable even though they are illegal. Remember that we have tax in order to avoid people who are becoming unjustly enrich and even if you are only earning purely on Bitcoin currency it does not make you exempted on paying your income tax or if you earned it through trading you will have a capital gains tax.

sindikat

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Quote from: Qartersa on October 24, 2017, 10:28:46 AM

I think there is a problem with this.

Some governments have no laws that corresponds to Bitcoins. -- Thus, people do not know how to treat Bitcoins in terms of taxing regulation since in the first place, Bitcoin is not even accepted in their country. Question now is, how can you tax an income you do not even accept or honor? In this case, these governments will be put in a contradicting position. That is, when they tax incomes derived from Bitcoins, it is indirectly saying it accepts/honors Bitcoins. Thus, they will be put in estoppel in the long run.

Governments don't think about it. They are not interested in what to take taxes from bitcoins is illegal. Their interests are only material. If you bought bitcoins and then sold them from the point of view of the government Fiat which you make on the account will be considered your income. It turns out that 2 times they take taxes from your income.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: Qartersa on October 24, 2017, 10:28:46 AM

I think there is a problem with this.

Some governments have no laws that corresponds to Bitcoins. -- Thus, people do not know how to treat Bitcoins in terms of taxing regulation since in the first place, Bitcoin is not even accepted in their country. Question now is, how can you tax an income you do not even accept or honor? In this case, these governments will be put in a contradicting position. That is, when they tax incomes derived from Bitcoins, it is indirectly saying it accepts/honors Bitcoins. Thus, they will be put in estoppel in the long run.

You're going to far with it. It's all much simpler. How would you even attempt to tax BTC as a cryptocurrency. I'm not talking about fiat or goods bought with cryptocurrency but your coins that went from $60 to $6000 in 5 years. IMO it's still impossible and will remain so. You can trace transactions and you can target exchanges, but people who mined their coins or bought them with cash via a face to face exchange or an ATM are untraceable.

Qartersa

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I think there is a problem with this.

Some governments have no laws that corresponds to Bitcoins. -- Thus, people do not know how to treat Bitcoins in terms of taxing regulation since in the first place, Bitcoin is not even accepted in their country. Question now is, how can you tax an income you do not even accept or honor? In this case, these governments will be put in a contradicting position. That is, when they tax incomes derived from Bitcoins, it is indirectly saying it accepts/honors Bitcoins. Thus, they will be put in estoppel in the long run.

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