Not enough debt - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

"UK payd off debt just a few years ago" is utter bullshit and shows you don't really have a clue about what you're talking about. The UK has been in a long term debt deficit for a long time and is nowhere near clearing it, nor do they necessarily want to do so. Being able to borrow money is useful, because you can put it into infrastructure or projects the government things are useful. Debt has nothing to do with how hard people will work and it comes with it's own stresses. Mortgages are probably the best form of debt and anything else when it comes to personal finances should be avoided where possible - things like credit cards, if they are not paid off in full every month, can have obscene rates of interest in comparison.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

Debts are no doubts very useful in financing economic projects both for the government and private individuals but if debts financing becomes an option, it should be done minimally because anything done in excess does not give good results. While advocating for more debts, you should be concerned about the personality or credit worthiness of the entity seeking for borrowed funds because such money will solve no problem if the debtor is not credit worthy, so it is better he/she didn't borrow at all. You should also be concerned about the stress that comes with repaying such debts. Such stress can be seen in the government's inability to fund some good social projects and essential services due to large budget deficits. There lots of negative effects that comes with taking debts, especially when the debtor becomes careless with the borrowed funds.

And to the individuals who rely on debts, repaying debts can be stressful also if not managed well. Doing two jobs just to be able to payoff debts is not a good standard, debts should be able to improve one's current status and make things easier. If the negative effect of debts outweighs the good side of it, then you should consider not borrowing at all.

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Quote from: Albarq on June 30, 2024, 08:50:08 AM

Quote from: mindrust on June 29, 2024, 06:55:42 AM

Right now I am almost debt free and on the contrary of popular belief, having debt is actually a good thing as long as the rates are low. People who hate debt usually don’t know how to use debt properly. If you use debt to grow your assets or business, then having debt can work wonders, especially if you are paying low interest. Only the fools borrow money to buy cell phones or cameras. Even buying a luxury car doesn’t make sense if you are taking a loan for it. If the money you borrow won’t bring you more money than your principle + interest, then your are scamming yourself.

To build a business from scratch is very difficult because it requires quite a bit of capital, we borrow or take out debt to start setting up a business, from there we rise. I think from here there are also benefits as long as we focus on what we are aiming for, but remember we have to pay in return. If we still have debt, we have to do more work to be able to pay it off, and that is very burdensome and we have to study at the beginning before going into debt. The fear is that in the middle of the journey our business will stop and what we have done will be useless, and that is the risk.

Accessing a loan facility to build a business is good but it depends on the business you want to establish, if it a physical business thats very lucrative it is fine because it involves individuals coming to patronize you and with your profit you can be able to pay back your loan but for you to pay back your loan as at when due, you should discipline yourself in other not to take any more from such business for any other purposes until you conclude your loan payment, some people are indebted because they fail to misunderstanding what repayment of debt is all about, before you borrow, you should go for a market survey this will enable you to know the particular establishment or imvestment that will grow fast an help you to repay your debt.
I have heard some people saying that they will borrow to invest in Bitcoin but my personal advise has always been that you don't borrow to invest in a volatile asset, despite that it is profitable in the longterm, as an investor you can't be risking two things at the sam time.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

Difficulty understanding the meaning you want to convey may have something to do with the language you use. Still from what I see it is related to loans and the level of difficulty to pay them when someone does not have a permanent job. If the loan is not productive then it should not be taken because it will cause problems in the future and many people misunderstand the meaning of the loan.

If it is related to the state, the debt will be imposed indirectly on the people and they will take any taxes. But if the relationship is with individuals taking loans to buy cars, mortgages and so on, it is a mistake. People take loans to increase success in ran business based on in-depth research and after they know the risks they decide to look for a loan.

mindrust

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Quote from: Albarq on June 30, 2024, 08:50:08 AM

Quote from: mindrust on June 29, 2024, 06:55:42 AM

Right now I am almost debt free and on the contrary of popular belief, having debt is actually a good thing as long as the rates are low. People who hate debt usually don’t know how to use debt properly. If you use debt to grow your assets or business, then having debt can work wonders, especially if you are paying low interest. Only the fools borrow money to buy cell phones or cameras. Even buying a luxury car doesn’t make sense if you are taking a loan for it. If the money you borrow won’t bring you more money than your principle + interest, then your are scamming yourself.

To build a business from scratch is very difficult because it requires quite a bit of capital, we borrow or take out debt to start setting up a business, from there we rise. I think from here there are also benefits as long as we focus on what we are aiming for, but remember we have to pay in return. If we still have debt, we have to do more work to be able to pay it off, and that is very burdensome and we have to study at the beginning before going into debt. The fear is that in the middle of the journey our business will stop and what we have done will be useless, and that is the risk.

Starting a business from nothing is difficult indeed but most people fail to do it because they are doing it wrong. People want to own a big business right from the start. Of course that’s not a realistic expectation. First you need to start small and then you get big later on as you gain more customers. Owning a small business don’t look attractive at first because most of them are not making enough money and that’s where people give up. Only if they could survive through it a bit longer, they would be making fat bucks but they don’t know it.

Instead they prefer to be employees and work under somebody else who have the patience to go through all that suffering. That’s why the employees’ suffering last forever while employers get financially independent one day.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

There is a big difference, do you mean public debt by the government or private debt owned by each household? First of all, not everybody can be in debt, some has to own all the money lend out. In case we are looking at governments only, than corporations or individuals can own all the debt a country issues. Just look at Japan for example where a large part of the population is happily buying the government bonds, even if they are not paying a lot of interest. And as long as the countries run deficits of 2-5% per year there is no way for debt levels to be reduced anytime soon. Politicians love to spend money that they don't own and are not going to change. On a personal level I would try to avoid debt as much as possible, it's a downward spiral and won't help us in the long run.

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Quote from: mindrust on June 29, 2024, 06:55:42 AM

Right now I am almost debt free and on the contrary of popular belief, having debt is actually a good thing as long as the rates are low. People who hate debt usually don’t know how to use debt properly. If you use debt to grow your assets or business, then having debt can work wonders, especially if you are paying low interest. Only the fools borrow money to buy cell phones or cameras. Even buying a luxury car doesn’t make sense if you are taking a loan for it. If the money you borrow won’t bring you more money than your principle + interest, then your are scamming yourself.

To build a business from scratch is very difficult because it requires quite a bit of capital, we borrow or take out debt to start setting up a business, from there we rise. I think from here there are also benefits as long as we focus on what we are aiming for, but remember we have to pay in return. If we still have debt, we have to do more work to be able to pay it off, and that is very burdensome and we have to study at the beginning before going into debt. The fear is that in the middle of the journey our business will stop and what we have done will be useless, and that is the risk.

mindrust

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Right now I am almost debt free and on the contrary of popular belief, having debt is actually a good thing as long as the rates are low. People who hate debt usually don’t know how to use debt properly. If you use debt to grow your assets or business, then having debt can work wonders, especially if you are paying low interest. Only the fools borrow money to buy cell phones or cameras. Even buying a luxury car doesn’t make sense if you are taking a loan for it. If the money you borrow won’t bring you more money than your principle + interest, then your are scamming yourself.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

So you are starting to think that debt is a good thing and needs to be created at all times in order to motivate everyone to work because in essence the debt has to be paid again? If you think like that I will be very surprised because you don't see other countries that don't have debt but can still prosper and develop quite well. And you also have to spend more time researching countries that still have debts to find out how these countries can't develop because they still have debts that haven't been paid off.

You need to look at each thing from two different sides and also compare it with several countries so that you can summarize the results that are more appropriate because if you only look at one country that is having difficulty after paying debts it will not be worthy enough to be discussed because in this world there are many a country that has paid off any debts.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

If everyone is in debt, who becomes the creditor? Have you thought about that? Sometimes when I realize that most of the big economies are in one form of debt or the other including the powerful US. The question I have been asking myself is who then is the creditor? Maybe I will get the answer from this discussion.

Debt does not make anyone to work harder and anyone who is accustomed to owing will continue to borrow and some even borrow to pay off old debts to enable them continue to borrow. It is never a nice way to live or plan life. Advising someone to borrow in order to work hard is what I consider a funny advise. That is a way of telling them to mortgage their happiness and live a life of stress with no rest. It is more peaceful and glorifying to live debt free and that should be what everyone should pursue.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

For me this is wrong, whether it is your hypothesis or not. So you mean a country that has no debt burden will become lazy or an individual who doesn't have to repay borrowed money will become lazy by sleeping all day?

Debt repayment is not the reason that people go to work. They also need to survive in personal fulfilment to that care of present and future needs. It is not about debt repayment but survival in the world's competitive economy, you need so many exigencies that you must over come before you can fit into the economy or survive and to do that you need to in fact increase your daily financial activities and diversify because having just one income resources in a highly inflated economy doesn't take care of bills of the home.

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As long as you are a good payer who borrows, I don't think I see any problem with that, but if you can't pay the loan, that is not good, and there is a problem when that happens.
Even if all the countries around the world borrow from their fellow countries, those are their alliances or countries that will trust them to lend.

There are other countries whose economic growth is also rising because of the borrowing they do because they use it in the right way for the benefit of their constituents, such as infrastructure, agriculture, or something like that.

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You're telling the opposite to the individual while in fact, it must be the government that should deal with its debt. And as an individual, we must flee from it. Having debt to push and help the economy isn't our job, it's the task of the government to adjust the interest rates so that every individual will see it as an opportunity to borrow when the rates are lower to none. But to push everyone to this, I don't like that idea because I'm trying to set myself free from debt as it's hard to move on when there's debt that you need to think of at all times.

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Serviceable debt is fine but due to high borrowing rates pretty much everywhere worldwide at the moment, more debt is only a good thing if the borrowers make their payments every month. The world does not need more debt if it’s at the expense of large amounts of people defaulting. So to be honest I think until rates come down, more debt might not necessarily be a good thing.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

It’s funny how you use debt as motivation for everyone to do extra effort in able to earn more than the regular salary.

I’m not sure if pun intended here or just pure inside the box thinking but people will be a zombie if everyone will work like hell just to paid off debt due to the interest it incorporates. It literally advance someone’s life together with the money since the longer the debt means the harder the person should just to earn equivalent money to match debt.

Debt is helpful if you use it the right way but there’s no way it will be use as motivation by general public. Cheesy

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A lot of countries have a hard time paying what they currently owe and you're still saying that there's not enough debt? Make that make sense because the only thing that would really benefit from debt are those bankers that are controlling who's going to get the debt and who's not going to get it, that's just how it is with debt, even if it does make sense that debt will help your economy, if the debt isn't distributed properly or efficiently, the debt will just become a burden to the people of that country and most of the time, they're probably not going to see the benefit of that debt.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

World is not enough in debt.
In order to economy Grow the debt is needed more debt we still have people whos debt free If more people get in debt then more economical activity so those in debt will work with 2 jobs not with just one Job.
We moving towards that more and more people will have debt burden on them car leases insurances mortgages and much more things.
UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

I don't entirely agree with you OP on the fact that, no debt makes society lazy, as a matter of fact the more you accumulated debts, the more you see yourself struggling to pay your debts and the supposed interest that will accrue to those debts, once you're your debt free, you see yourself having enough to take care of yourself and some amount to save for raining days and you wouldn't have to do two jobs just to leave a comfortable life. there is always a saying in the financial sector, that "He who goes Borrowing goes Sorrowing".

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If that's what you're really thinking, pretty crazy opinion you got here honestly.

people are already entangled in debt left and right because cost of living is a lot higher, not to mention the housing price crisis that force people to take 30 year fixed mortgage, that's enough debt already.
so many people are already in massive stress due to debt, the people who are free from debt should be given choice to still remain free from debt, not everyone can tolerate the stress that debt gives, often time it can cause health issue too.

your entire statements making me thinks that you letting people overwork will cause economy to grow, but I think it has bigger side effect that could be the drawback of the economy, what happens if depression rate increase? it could correlate to unproductivity.
compensate economic growth through the means of technology to spare people from overworking that's the only way in my opinion.

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Quote from: Fullbear2222 on June 27, 2024, 10:48:18 AM

UK payd off debt just few years ago and now they struggle.
More debt will make everybody working harder no debt makes society more lazy.

How? People choose debt when there’s no other option left and it’s not nice wanting such situation just for the society sake, when you mentioned debt make people work harder which I believe everyone can work hard towards achieving their goals without taking loan. Almost everything written is actually not real, how’s everything associated with debt done in your country? because here, a person must provide something important worth the amount you will receive so sometimes most people don’t even get qualified receiving a loan so I will advice everyone should work hard without seeking for a loan.

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I’m still trying to understand where you take your theory from that makes you feel like more debt is going to stabilise or keep the world economy in balance and how no debt is making people feel very lazy in terms of working.

Those who are in debt to me leave like they are in bondage; in fact, they might even feel enslaved by the people that they are owning. It’s as simple as that, and that’s depressing, and frustration alone can cause an individual's downfall.

I know that’s different from how governments handle their own debt, but one thing I know is that being in so much debt will definitely affect the country's economy because you will be required to use money that is meant for other development to service your already existing debts.

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