"Not your keys, not your coins" | Bitcointalksearch.org

tranthidung

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Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: Abiky on June 28, 2022, 08:41:31 PM

That is true. But with atomic swaps and hybrid exchanges (decentralized/centralized) this no longer becomes an issue. Traders can still get access to their keys/seeds and enjoy high-performance order execution + low fees like they do with any ordinary centralized exchange. A good example of this is the hybrid exchange called Waves which has the performance of a traditional centralized exchange, but the decentralization of Blockchain tech (giving you access to private keys/seeds). It's the best of both worlds, if you ask me.

People just need to be thoroughly educated in order to prevent them from storing all of their crypto assets in a centralized exchange that doesn't give them control of their own keys. As long as most people have access to their keys, the number of hacks/scams/theft will be reduced to a minimum. Just my opinion

They own their private key/ mnemonic seed and it's better for them to store their money on centralized exchanges and custodial wallets. However, an important point to remember is you must approve access to your wallet when you are using DEX. Risk comes from here and some 'naively' people lose money because they give access after receiving airdrop from unverified, scam tokens.

https://app.unrekt.net/. You can use this site to revoke access for spending your tokens in your wallet.

Abiky

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Quote from: South Park on June 24, 2022, 02:22:06 AM

Most traders do not have too much of a choice, those which day trade with a small amount of capital cannot really afford to send their coins out of the exchange and then back to it after each day of work as this will increase substantially the fees they have to pay, so they have to leave their coins at the exchange and assume all the risks that come from leaving their coins at the exchange, so while holding our coins in an address which is exclusively under our control is the optimal solution there are circumstances which do not allow it.

That is true. But with atomic swaps and hybrid exchanges (decentralized/centralized) this no longer becomes an issue. Traders can still get access to their keys/seeds and enjoy high-performance order execution + low fees like they do with any ordinary centralized exchange. A good example of this is the hybrid exchange called Waves which has the performance of a traditional centralized exchange, but the decentralization of Blockchain tech (giving you access to private keys/seeds). It's the best of both worlds, if you ask me.

People just need to be thoroughly educated in order to prevent them from storing all of their crypto assets in a centralized exchange that doesn't give them control of their own keys. As long as most people have access to their keys, the number of hacks/scams/theft will be reduced to a minimum. Just my opinion

South Park

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Quote from: AakZaki on June 21, 2022, 01:05:46 PM

Quote from: taufik123 on June 18, 2022, 05:51:56 PM

Centralized exchange is only a temporary trading place and cannot be used as a main asset repository, it is indeed more risky, because there is no complete control. Some risks such as hacking and asset freezing will become a problem that will suddenly occur.

But I think a lot of people are storing Assets in an exchange. It's even possible that almost half of traders do that, except for traders who have a lot of assets. Indeed, all have the impact that the owner has to be a little busy to move assets into a personal wallet after trading activities. Indeed, by far what I consider the safest is to store assets in hard press, such as Trezor, Ledger. I have that and indeed I keep some assets there. Although all have disadvantages, it seems that Terezor and Ledger as long as they are not exposed to viruses and connected to the internet will be safer.

Most traders do not have too much of a choice, those which day trade with a small amount of capital cannot really afford to send their coins out of the exchange and then back to it after each day of work as this will increase substantially the fees they have to pay, so they have to leave their coins at the exchange and assume all the risks that come from leaving their coins at the exchange, so while holding our coins in an address which is exclusively under our control is the optimal solution there are circumstances which do not allow it.

Marvell1

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 18, 2022, 01:52:22 AM

The thing is.... people are so used to the convenience of centralized services, because they used centralized services in the Fiat system (Banks) and they trust these services, because it is backed by governments. (Governments give bailouts when they fail)

They think large (regulated) Crypto exchanges give them the same security that Banks and other regulated financial institutions give them, but they are wrong. These centralized services are the main focus point for hackers and also for corrupt governments... and they can lose access to their coins at any given moment. Roll Eyes

I agree with you but you're only seeing part of the picture, centralized exchanges provide a wide range of benefits and services. As an example, you can exchange your assets with the most popular coins on the market, with low transaction fees. This is an issue that decentralized exchanges have yet to solve.
We prefer centralized exchanges to decentralized exchanges because they are easier to use, switching tokens between blockchains isn't hard, and humans are simple and fast.

cabron

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Quote from: tranthidung on June 23, 2022, 10:00:36 PM

Quote from: goldkingcoiner on June 23, 2022, 09:44:55 PM

People need to take NYKNYC more seriously and withdraw from exchanges.

Before they understand it and truly practice it, they must read enough and think deeply enough. Maybe many of them don't care to read. Many of them don't care to practice, until a day they lose money because of exchange hack, scam, exit, government seize, etc.

Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless

Some of these people actually read and know what "Not your keys, not your coins" means but the desire to earn from the platform is too persuading. Just when the platform announce they are not allowing withdrawals, its when they realized its true meaning.

"Not your keys, not your coins"

The statement comes up all the time but most specifically when there are scams like Defi platforms not allowing you to withdraw like the Celsius and Blockfi issue just recently. 3AC and Luna are just as the same as the a bankrun. If these platforms won't give them back, you can't do anything even if you have lawyers. The more you will spend for lawyers fee.

tranthidung

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Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: goldkingcoiner on June 23, 2022, 09:44:55 PM

People need to take NYKNYC more seriously and withdraw from exchanges.

Before they understand it and truly practice it, they must read enough and think deeply enough. Maybe many of them don't care to read. Many of them don't care to practice, until a day they lose money because of exchange hack, scam, exit, government seize, etc.

Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless

goldkingcoiner

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I think it is quite ironic that despite the governments flimsy attempts at regulation aka scaring people into obeying their arbitrary rules on how money should work, whenever one of these exchanges that are supposedly bound by the regulation laws goes belly up, there can be almost certainly nothing done to bring your money back to you. And if it someday is returned to you, you will have missed out on the rise in value because you get compensated in fiat.

People need to take NYKNYC more seriously and withdraw from exchanges.

tranthidung

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Farewell o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: Abiky on June 23, 2022, 08:16:01 PM

This is the golden rule when navigating your way through crypto land. If you don't have access to private keys or seeds, you'd risk yourself getting all of your coins lost or stolen in the long run. Most people rely on centralized exchanges and wallet providers because it's more convenient for them. If only they knew that without the keys or seeds they don't control their funds, they would've used switched to non-custodial or decentralized solutions already. We need to educate the masses in order to reduce attack surfaces as much as possible. As long as the majority has access to keys/seeds, the number of hacks will be reduced by a large margin.

When you don't own key of your coin, you must trust a third party with their honest, fairness and seamless operation for your transaction request. You don't control anything. What you see is a credit number in your account and whether your order for trading, withdrawal request is approved by third party or not, it is unknown and uncertain.

Nightmare might appear anytime if you don't own your keys.

Quote

At least, crypto/Blockchain tech's popularity is rising. Who knows if people become more aware about securing their funds in the crypto/Blockchain space?

I am sure that with two simultaneously trends: growth of Bitcoin (in value) and Bitcoin educational efforts, people will become more knowledgeable about Bitcoin and related things (how to store it, backup, recover, etc.) and less people will lose their big amount of Bitcoin because of unknowledgeable.

However, a second part is important. Being knowledgeable does not naturally and automatically cause good practice. It's a different side of a coin. Cheesy

Abiky

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Quote from: dzungmobile on June 16, 2022, 10:20:59 PM

"Not your keys, not your coins". I don't know since when the saying was born but it has been repeatedly mentioned in cryptocurrency communities.

It's bad idea to put your coins on centralized exchanges with custodial wallets (you don't have access key to that wallet).
It's bad idea to send your coins to centralized lending platforms (like Celcius, 3 Arrows Capital ie.). You don't own key and they can disable withdrawal, apply for bankruptcy anytime.

With this bear market and some disasters recently from Terra to Celcius, 3 Arrows Capital, it is very good time to learn this lesson and act accordingly. It is time to practice this lesson and protect your capital.

"Not your keys, not your coins". Practice it, before it is too late to save your capital.

Security checklist
Exchange hack timeline. Not all of them are real hacks. Some are scam exits.

This is the golden rule when navigating your way through crypto land. If you don't have access to private keys or seeds, you'd risk yourself getting all of your coins lost or stolen in the long run. Most people rely on centralized exchanges and wallet providers because it's more convenient for them. If only they knew that without the keys or seeds they don't control their funds, they would've used switched to non-custodial or decentralized solutions already. We need to educate the masses in order to reduce attack surfaces as much as possible. As long as the majority has access to keys/seeds, the number of hacks will be reduced by a large margin.

At least, crypto/Blockchain tech's popularity is rising. Who knows if people become more aware about securing their funds in the crypto/Blockchain space? Just my opinion

dataispower

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Quote from: RussianEnglishTranslation on June 22, 2022, 11:51:09 AM

Quote from: dzungmobile on June 16, 2022, 10:20:59 PM

"Not your keys, not your coins". I don't know since when the saying was born but it has been repeatedly mentioned in cryptocurrency communities.

It's bad idea to put your coins on centralized exchanges with custodial wallets (you don't have access key to that wallet).
It's bad idea to send your coins to centralized lending platforms (like Celcius, 3 Arrows Capital ie.). You don't own key and they can disable withdrawal, apply for bankruptcy anytime.

With this bear market and some disasters recently from Terra to Celcius, 3 Arrows Capital, it is very good time to learn this lesson and act accordingly. It is time to practice this lesson and protect your capital.

"Not your keys, not your coins". Practice it, before it is too late to save your capital.

Security checklist
Exchange hack timeline. Not all of them are real hacks. Some are scam exits.

I don't get why people are staking their BTC on these platforms when they could be wrapping them and using BTC in DeFi on chains like Polygon and the internet computer.

the one thing i noticed in staking in a platform is that, when someone give good acknowledge of platform other people will like to queue to know the operation of the platform if it's beneficiary to other community. I will encourage you and who whenever wants to stake to verify first before investing for a particular platform. Because some platforms has used a trick to follow people so all these is what people supposed to verify before investing or staking

Issa56

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With the hack which we have all witnessed, I think most of us should now know that keeping coin in exchange is really a bad idea, if you want to hold a coin after buying from exchange we should always send it to our non custodial wallet address which we have the private key, nobody should trust and exchange because anything can happen at any moment and your funds are at risk, the exchange can be hacked also the exchange can freeze your account which you cant do anything to it because they are in control of your money. If your fund is in non custodial wallet address nobody can freeze your account because you control it. Also I notice most people that always keep their coin on exchange are newbies, so should try and enlighten them about the disadvantages of leaving coin in exchange.

CaVO32

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Quote from: coinerer on June 22, 2022, 08:39:23 AM

It is possible in centralised exchange to recover your account by reset your password by email. But it is not possible to recover your account if you hold your coin on any decentralized all it like trustwallet or metamask etc. Because decentralized all it provide a security phase for import the wallet but centralised exchange have email and password for login . So I think centralised exchange is safe for holding but decentralized exchange also a great opportunity for decentralized because decentralized wallet have a security key and it can easily access any wallet if you have that key. And it is not possible to hack in any way. But centralised exchange have apossibility for hacking

Maybe, if you want to hold some coin in centralized exchange, don't leave it too long. Because the possibility of hacking and other attacks are always there. Even if we say the exchange is a top exchange, they are still vulnerable to any kind of attack because hacker tools are getting sophisticated. When it comes to decentralized wallets, what you need to make sure is the security of your keys. Don't forget where you hide it once you need it. And don't download any software application that you are not familiar of because there maybe malwares inside that can steal your vital data.

coupable

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Quote from: RussianEnglishTranslation on June 22, 2022, 11:51:09 AM

Security checklist
Exchange hack timeline. Not all of them are real hacks. Some are scam exits.

I don't get why people are staking their BTC on these platforms when they could be wrapping them and using BTC in DeFi on chains like Polygon and the internet computer.
[/quote]
The answer is very easy. People have not yet been able to get rid of the control of the banking system on their minds because the global banking system has become a culture and not just a means to achieve certain goals.
Banks give users security that their savings are kept in safe places without them being aware of the return they pay for that service, whether in the form of fees or their personal data, which is often more important than the money they save.
For these reasons, these platforms succeed in bringing users who want to use cryptocurrencies in the same way as the banking system.

RussianEnglishTranslation

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Quote from: dzungmobile on June 16, 2022, 10:20:59 PM

"Not your keys, not your coins". I don't know since when the saying was born but it has been repeatedly mentioned in cryptocurrency communities.

It's bad idea to put your coins on centralized exchanges with custodial wallets (you don't have access key to that wallet).
It's bad idea to send your coins to centralized lending platforms (like Celcius, 3 Arrows Capital ie.). You don't own key and they can disable withdrawal, apply for bankruptcy anytime.

With this bear market and some disasters recently from Terra to Celcius, 3 Arrows Capital, it is very good time to learn this lesson and act accordingly. It is time to practice this lesson and protect your capital.

"Not your keys, not your coins". Practice it, before it is too late to save your capital.

Security checklist
Exchange hack timeline. Not all of them are real hacks. Some are scam exits.

I don't get why people are staking their BTC on these platforms when they could be wrapping them and using BTC in DeFi on chains like Polygon and the internet computer.

coinerer

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It is possible in centralised exchange to recover your account by reset your password by email. But it is not possible to recover your account if you hold your coin on any decentralized all it like trustwallet or metamask etc. Because decentralized all it provide a security phase for import the wallet but centralised exchange have email and password for login . So I think centralised exchange is safe for holding but decentralized exchange also a great opportunity for decentralized because decentralized wallet have a security key and it can easily access any wallet if you have that key. And it is not possible to hack in any way. But centralised exchange have apossibility for hacking

ChrisPop

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Not your Keys, Not your Bitcoins

IMO this should be even more widely spread around crypto communities. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are meant to empower the individual and he needs to be aware of the risks he is exposing to when keeping coins in custody of a third party.

My recommendation is to invest the time to learn about the mechanics of crypto wallets and their security features. It is not rocket science. I'd say that anybody who has a basic understanding and experience with computers can do it. In other words if you are able to create an account on an exchange, deposit, withdraw and manage your account than there is no reason why wouldn't you be able to understand and apply the best self-custody practices.

Of course that if you are actively trading you should keep a certain amount on the exchange, but be aware of the risks. The human psychic tends to avoid responsibility. That's why many prefer to keep their coins on exchanges - comfort and if something happens with their coins they can blame the exchange aka "the system".

KaliLinux

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Quote from: Kakmakr on June 18, 2022, 01:52:22 AM

The thing is.... people are so used to the convenience of centralized services, because they used centralized services in the Fiat system (Banks) and they trust these services, because it is backed by governments. (Governments give bailouts when they fail)

They think large (regulated) Crypto exchanges give them the same security that Banks and other regulated financial institutions give them, but they are wrong. These centralized services are the main focus point for hackers and also for corrupt governments... and they can lose access to their coins at any given moment. Roll Eyes

Agreed. But apart from your reason given, I believe that there are other reasons why people might want to continually leave their crypto assets on centralized exchanges. Of cause, they know this is risky but maybe the opportunity to easily trade-off these assets when needed I believe might be a reason. Also, I think most of the people that do have their assets on CEXs might not have enough to store on a hardware wallet in terms of cost Analysis however, for those that have the number of crypto assets and don't think of storing them outside the CEX must have a good reason and are willing to take the risk.

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Quote from: taufik123 on June 18, 2022, 05:51:56 PM

Centralized exchange is only a temporary trading place and cannot be used as a main asset repository, it is indeed more risky, because there is no complete control. Some risks such as hacking and asset freezing will become a problem that will suddenly occur.

But I think a lot of people are storing Assets in an exchange. It's even possible that almost half of traders do that, except for traders who have a lot of assets. Indeed, all have the impact that the owner has to be a little busy to move assets into a personal wallet after trading activities. Indeed, by far what I consider the safest is to store assets in hard press, such as Trezor, Ledger. I have that and indeed I keep some assets there. Although all have disadvantages, it seems that Terezor and Ledger as long as they are not exposed to viruses and connected to the internet will be safer.

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Quote from: xSkylarx on June 18, 2022, 12:21:03 AM

Sometimes using a decentralized wallet isn't enough if your holdings are like 6 digits or above so using a hardware wallet is also a good option to help secure your cryptocurrencies.

Your assets do not have to be 6 digits or more, you need to think of a hardware wallet to store it. For me, investing in crypto is a long term investment whether you own 10 bitcoins or you only own 0.1bitcoins it is still our property. To be on the safe side, let's protect it with a hardware wallet now. Right now, 0.1 bitcoin is worth $2k, but if you hold it long enough, it may be worth $20k, $200k in the future. Who knows? As a crypto investor, we should invest in a hardware wallet to safeguard our assets.

barbara44

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Quote from: seoincorporation on June 17, 2022, 08:48:46 AM

People don't realize that the fact of sending their bitcoins to a centralized service represents a risk. If we make a deposit on an exchange or a casino, at that moment the coins don't belong to us anymore. And if the service decides to lock your balance and keep the money they can do it without problems.

On the technical side, it would be easy for the exchanges to provide a deposit address and give to the customer the private keys, but if they do this then they would lose control of the coins, and we know they don't want that.

Some people knows this already but they still insist to use centralized exchanges like binance and centralized gambling sites (there are lots of them right now) I think that is because they are on the mainstream.

There are decentralized platforms but they are usually not popular as the centralized ones, I think this can be the reason why many people are discouraged on using them because they think it wasn't trusted or there are not enough feedback from those platforms. In my opinion, it is not bad to use a centralized platform as long as you are not storing your money on them for a long period of time and you're not deposing bigger amounts.

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