Topic: Novec 7000 Project [immersive evaporating cooling] - page 3. (Read 26683 times)

Yep, 34 (N/7000) is not really workable but 61 (N/7100) is fairly easy to condense and also a good working temp for chips; I would not be comfortable at 98 (N/7300) but 76 (N/7200) might be workable once the cooling is dialed in.

Higher boiling point also increases the usefulness of the hot water returned.

u27

Both 7000 and 7100 can be used with the same closed loop system.  The point is that the larger the difference between ambient (i.e. outside) temp and the condensation point of the working fluid the more efficient the operation.   Now obviously a fluid which boils at 400C would be very efficient but it would also mean the processors would be 400C as well which wouldn't be good.   So the optimal working fluid in a two phase immersion cooling system is one with the HIGHEST boiling point which is still maintains the processors at an acceptable temp.

its a lot easier and cheaper to cool a closed-loop coil within the vapour area, and then extract the heat of that loop outside the building or with fewer fans than would be needed for air cooling.



Below is a pump and heat exchanger that moves heat outside so it can be dissipated by chillers.

Sorry, cross posting with rig photos thread...

I think he is running Novec 7000 which changes state at 35? Very difficult to condense the vapour on something like that unless you are in very low ambient temps or you have a crap load of below ambient cooling (a single pelt uses as much power as it transfers so hardly an economical option). Novec 7100 boils at 65 which is a perfectly acceptable temp for most chips to run at and a lot easier to condense the vapour from 65 than 35.

The thing with HFE's is that they solve all your the chip cooling problems and move them along the chain; if your asics are pulling 1000w then you then need at least 1000w of cooling to condense the vapour. 1000w of cooling is not so hard from 65 but it is quite a challenge from 35 depending on you ambient temps.

The main benefit of HFE is that it makes the heat usable; you can condense vapour from 65 with a radiator and water at 60 if you have high enough flow so that water is hot enough to be useful to heat water and such like. If your chips are happy to run at higher temps you can use 7200 or greater which allow the cooling water to be heated to higher temps which are even more useful.

smracer looks to be rocking the 7100 which is easier to work with and still yeilds chip temps of 65 for almost unlimited heat dissipation.

I'm not sure how I will get on with it at this early stage but my intention is to use Neptune at a 2kW water heater by the time winter comes to England.

u27

This would be interesting to cheap if not were so so expensive!

Ya we have to and we are hoping to get it tested in HK at Allied Control.

Our group is not going to rely on Cointerra. LOL. We got some other plans for the variety of chips we already have in or will have in hand soon.

Hammer Whiteface
AM BE200 Whiteface
Minion Whiteface
"R" - Whiteface

Very interesting times indeed.

You don't have to.  You could put a Cointerra 4U Terraminer in there (it's 19-inch).


That's just a recommendation by the designers so that the miner doesn't need to always redo everything once the next hardware is around the corner. And to up the density.

Whatever fits in a bathtub will fit in one of these. They are 19-inch bathtubs. Why should a few dozen mining device manufacturers always need to work on their own boxes, cooling, infrastructure when all he market needs is delivering boards on chips? That's why CPUs and DDR memory comes in a standardized form factor. Makes sense?

Building a board to fit those.

Like this?

Has any one put any thing iin to a product or solution regarding this?

3M sells direct in the US for about $250-$300 USD per gallon.  Mine was delivered in less than a week from order date.  Either someone is trying to rip you off, you pissed someone off, or you're international and there are other things going on.

Im getting quotes of $1100/gallon

Who told you that Novec 649 is acetone? It is Fluoroketone, tested to be inert enough for such purpose.
Also I have official 3M response that Novec 649 is recomended fluid for immersive cooling.
You can check here
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=4509386&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F4476516%2F4509347%2F04509386.pdf%3Farnumber%3D4509386
http://solutions.3mdeutschland.de/wps/portal/3M/de_DE/Novec/Home/Product_Information/Products/?PC_Z7_RJH9U5230OLLB0I4HB8HRT3OC0000000_nid=F55Z1XTKWXbeQQBXSJ1LVVgl

Hi

No need for air cooling, no need for a water cooled cpu block, if you are serious about increasing your mining density then immersive cooling solutions are for you.

Miners currently use a 4U foot print with Air Cooling or GPU block cooling solutions. When space is a limitation or you just want to increase your hash per square metre then our solution is your ideal choice.

We are developing a gravity fed two phase cooling system with Novec used in an aluminium extruded immersion tank.
The cooling system is modular, hot swappable with built in safety and redundancy with minimum maintenance required.

By using Novec as the coolant we can place the mining boards about 1mm apart, increasing mining board density substantially.

Useful hot water out of the system with a temperature of around 50C.

The only moving mechanical parts are the water pumps in the base sucking the water out of the system.

The idea is to maximise the mining board density.

Imagine how many KnCMiners you could fit into this type of system.

GPU's can also be catered for.

We are based in the UK, I have been a lurker for some time on this forum and started mining around May 2013.

Interested parties oem's please pm me.
Investors please use seedco.in, pm me for details.

Very interesting info. Thanks

The goal isn't to fill the container and for it to be economical you are going to want to stack the head loads very tightly.

Most engineered fluids are ~$50 per Liter.  1L = 1000 cm3.  So we are talking $0.05 per cm3.

Now imagine you have a KNC board you wish to cool.  This isn't a recommendation however it is the type of board that would be a good fit because it has a high energy density.
The board is roughly 15cm x 15cm.  Now put the board on its side and put a 1 cm spacer between it and the next board.  Do that for 10 boards.   You end up with a cube roughly 15cmx15cmx15cm.  The fluid would fill the space between the boards a rectangle roughly 1cm x 15 cm x 15cm.  So there will be 225cm3 of fluid between the boards.  It is actually less because the surface mount component will displace some of the fluid.  225 cm * $0.05 = $11.25 per board.  Now that is just the cooling fluid you will need condenser and if the condenser is water cooled, pumps, tubing, and either a chiller or dry tower.

However this simplistic example should show how while the cost per gallon is high the goal is to use as little as possible.  It also allows incredible energy densities.  In the example above 10 boards (1,000 GH/s) occupy a space of 3375 cm3 or 3.4 cm3 per GH/s.  Now you still need space for the vapor height and the condenser so lets triple that to roughly 10cm3 per GH/s.

You could never air cool KNC boards with only 1cm on clearance between boards.  KNC stock design is for 4 boards (400 GH/s) in a 4U rackmount space.  So roughly 100 GH/s per 1U.  A datacenter rackunit is 19" x 24" x 1.75" = 798 cubic inches. To use the same units that is ~13,000 cm3 or 130 cm3.

10 cm3 vs 130 cm3.  A 13x improvement in density.  While you wouldn't need to rackmount these you could fit about 50 TH/s of KNC gear (90KW) in the same space as a datacenter rack.  If Cointerra or HF can deliver 4x the efficiency it would be more like 200 TH/s per datacenter rack. 

The business model is close to the LED lamp, or the glass-fiber bus. (In Chinese, "用者自負")

Before this, I have checked different things including using vegetable oil to control the total cost. However the drawback is messy cleaning but the fluid, includes the hidden cost so if using this, then you no longer need to do messy thing repeatedly, the fluid is always ready for setting up without problem.

I now am interested with chemical as the business becomes more mature than before. Also if not for mining, I can use this for professional drawing without problem.

Will do.  I had a dream last night the UPS guy dropped the bottles and all that expensive Novec ended up on the ground.    I probably will start a new thread but aTG first experiment gave me the inspiration.  I am just wondering if he has made any more progress.  From where he stopped I see two solutions, the first being a larger radiator and the second using Novec 7100.  Still I would prefer to see Novec 6000 working as it will result in lower board temps.

Mineral oil is an option however I will be working with either Novec 7000 or Novec 7100.  One advantage that ASICs potentially have is extreme energy densities.  Compared to a run of the mill server or GPU rig you have a higher energy usage relative to the size of the system. 3M has provided me with some data on experiment where they cooled 4KW (that would be >8 TH/s using 28nm chip @ 0.5 J/GH) using just 1 Liter of Novec 7000.  That level of energy density is probably not possible (at least not without custom designed boards) but it shows the fluid is capable of incredibly energy transfers.  The challenge is finding a solution to minimize the amount of working fluid required relative to the power consumption and hashrate.

Still mineral oil is an interesting idea however while the working fluid is cheaper everything else has higher cost and complexity.  I already watercooled a server rack of GPU rigs so I need to bump up the extremeness to have any fun.

I've been thinking of making something similar. I wish Novec 700 was much cheaper, but its out of the budget for most. I would go with mineral oil. the only downfall is that it takes a while to clean it off, i think the green revolution uses it. Also what about a cooling system where the oil goes through a heatsink cooled by water from an outside maybe portable pool?