Now that Bitcoin is no longer digital cash?

DooMAD

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Quote from: we-btc on April 22, 2024, 04:44:29 PM

If we allow Bitcoin to be undermined with slow transactions and high fees we all lose. If we don't adopt Bitcoin the way it was intended, financial institutions win.

I've yet to hear a proposal for how you'd "disallow" it. Mostly it just sounds like you want to tell people how they can and can't transact and are playing the hysteria card to make it sound as though people should agree with you. I see your cries falling on deaf ears. People are going to continue doing whatever the hell they want. Because they can.

You bid for space in blocks. That's the design. Always has been. Sometimes it gets expensive. That's how bidding works. The way Bitcoin was intended is that no one can interfere with anyone else's transactions. That's what it's currently doing while it continues to resist forum hysteria about it supposedly being "slow" and "expensive". Bitcoin is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

If you want fast and cheap, find a design that wasn't based on bidding for finite space in blocks. You'll soon learn what you're sacrificing to obtain fast and cheap, though.

we-btc

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If we allow Bitcoin to be undermined with slow transactions and high fees we all lose. If we don't adopt Bitcoin the way it was intended, financial institutions win.

GeorgeJohn

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Quote from: we-btc on April 17, 2024, 08:26:41 AM

I ask this question because I wonder what Bitcoin will become now that the financial institutions and meme coin advocates have taken over.

If Bitcoin is not peer-to-peer electronic cash then how do you see it?

bitcoin is a digital currency which will all know that from the process of knowing Bitcoin it is quite all right that Bitcoin is an independable currency and which is not under the control of government so looking at it in all round its an independable currency and that's why government continues to fight against bitcoin

skarais

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OP, what are you worried about, the use of bitcoin as a means of payment will not change even though the actual use cases may be lower or higher at certain times.

Each user has their own interest in bitcoin regardless of whether they want to use it as a means of payment or simply as an investment instrument, and both will not change anything about bitcoin other than just the volatility of its usage graph.

Don't worry, bitcoin will still be an alternative means of payment for anyone who is interested. No single project will take over completely although it makes sense that people would be interested in altcoins that have low transaction fees as a means of payment. The main purpose of bitcoin is as a means of payment, that will be a permanent use of bitcoin even if one day bitcoin is not the most interest as a means of payment.

kentrolla

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First of all you have a massive misunderstanding and it seems bit messed up when I see people comparing financial institutions with Bitcoin as they are two different and opposite entities. Meme coins are joke and cannot be considered for peer to peer as you never know when it will become zero, though some may use it for small transactions. Bitcoin has not lost an inch except the fact that transactions fee are pain in wrong place.

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Quote from: franky1 on April 19, 2024, 05:02:24 PM

Quote from: LeGaulois on April 18, 2024, 11:52:22 AM

Quote from: avikz on April 17, 2024, 12:33:45 PM

Quote from: m2017 on April 17, 2024, 11:27:22 AM

So let me summarize nowadays and 10 years ago:

step1: Bitcoin is digital cash, freedoom, decentralization!!!

step 2: people praise corporations and institutions saying how it will be good for the bitcoin's price

step 3: corporations enter the market and centralize the ecosystem.

step 4: people praise how good it will be if the market is regulated by laws from governments

step 5: governments force laws against cryptos

step 6: finally bitcoin is digital gold and not digital cash

So, people on the step 1 were only interested by the money to feed their pocket. And they helped to have the system we have nowadays.
It can be called bitcoin or sugar, people do not care as long they make money with it.

people in steps 2-5 are the wall street types not the original OG liberals
these people screamed, begged and lobbied for those steps "for mainstream" and yet the intervention/integrations of those steps had caused alot of corporate sponsorship of centralised dev group and political push of corporations operating at the edges of the network to change bitcoins perceived utility, on purpose

there is a reason we hear cultish narratives blindly repeating, supporting, suggesting bitcoiners should abandon using bitcoin for small sat movements whilst allowing spammers, scammers, junkers and bloaters to continue using bitcoin and being told we should not stop the spammers/scammers annoying the network

segregation has 2 meaning: one code related and one socioeconomic related. the second one is this time a rich/poor divide rather than skin colour,
but welcome to wall street integrating and gentrifying the neighbourhood, all over again

I wasn't referring to the OGs, but the parrots on this forum who were repeating things they didn't have any idea of the result.
In the U.S politic they call them "low information voters".

The real OGs aren't in bitcointalk anymore since decade, except 2-3 grandpa.

By the way, I agree about the segregation

ancafe

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Quote from: Pandu Geddon on April 18, 2024, 10:48:55 PM

although quite a lot of countries have implemented Bitcoin as an investment asset. but they will not remove the inherent definition of Bitcoin as a digital currency. no matter whether they legalize the use of Bitcoin as a transaction tool or not. If trading is carried out on a P2P basis by service providers or services with their customers, Bitcoin's function as a digital currency that provides financial freedom to its users is actually running.

This definition will never disappear and will continue to be applied and many countries legalize bitcoin as an investment asset because they cannot possibly provide access to bitcoin as legal tender. It seems like we are thinking too far ahead and what the OP said will most likely not be realized in the near future because to legalize bitcoin as legal tender requires a lot of approval from the government in power and not to mention the regulations that regulate it

The problem is that not many people understand how to use it, even though if use is done P2P it will truly provide financial freedom. Basically, the definition of bitcoin as a digital currency will never change even if people try to explain it in any way because this definition was inherent when bitcoin was created.

Ben Barubal

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Quote from: we-btc on April 17, 2024, 08:26:41 AM

I ask this question because I wonder what Bitcoin will become now that the financial institutions and meme coin advocates have taken over.

If Bitcoin is not peer-to-peer electronic cash then how do you see it?

For me, bitcoin is still a digital cash payment that can still be converted to real money. Not only is it proven to be a long-term investment, but as another opportunity, it can also provide good help to many people who believe in it.

But the majority of those who believe in bitcoin are really good, and it's proven to be a long-term investment. Ultimately, institutional investors are accumulating it for the long term.
But for now it is not good to use it as a mode of payment instead much better to hold it.

Rabbitqt

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Quote from: we-btc on April 17, 2024, 08:26:41 AM

I ask this question because I wonder what Bitcoin will become now that the financial institutions and meme coin advocates have taken over.

If Bitcoin is not peer-to-peer electronic cash then how do you see it?

BTC hasn't been cash for years. We diverted from Satoshi's vision years ago... I guess these days people will call it a "store of value" but nothing which drops 80% in a bear cycle is considering a store of value....

franky1

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Quote from: LeGaulois on April 18, 2024, 11:52:22 AM

Quote from: avikz on April 17, 2024, 12:33:45 PM

Quote from: m2017 on April 17, 2024, 11:27:22 AM

So let me summarize nowadays and 10 years ago:

step1: Bitcoin is digital cash, freedoom, decentralization!!!

step 2: people praise corporations and institutions saying how it will be good for the bitcoin's price

step 3: corporations enter the market and centralize the ecosystem.

step 4: people praise how good it will be if the market is regulated by laws from governments

step 5: governments force laws against cryptos

step 6: finally bitcoin is digital gold and not digital cash

So, people on the step 1 were only interested by the money to feed their pocket. And they helped to have the system we have nowadays.
It can be called bitcoin or sugar, people do not care as long they make money with it.

people in steps 2-5 are the wall street types not the original OG liberals
these people screamed, begged and lobbied for those steps "for mainstream" and yet the intervention/integrations of those steps had caused alot of corporate sponsorship of centralised dev group and political push of corporations operating at the edges of the network to change bitcoins perceived utility, on purpose

there is a reason we hear cultish narratives blindly repeating, supporting, suggesting bitcoiners should abandon using bitcoin for small sat movements whilst allowing spammers, scammers, junkers and bloaters to continue using bitcoin and being told we should not stop the spammers/scammers annoying the network

segregation has 2 meaning: one code related and one socioeconomic related. the second one is this time a rich/poor divide rather than skin colour,
but welcome to wall street integrating and gentrifying the neighbourhood, all over again

Zoomic

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Quote from: we-btc on April 17, 2024, 08:26:41 AM

I ask this question because I wonder what Bitcoin will become now that the financial institutions and meme coin advocates have taken over.

If Bitcoin is not peer-to-peer electronic cash then how do you see it?

Even if FIAT and meme coins become more powerful than Bitcoin (which will likely not happen), it will not change the fact that Bitcoin is a digital currency. Currently, Bitcoin is the number one cryptocurrency yet altcoins are still seen as digital currencies. Bitcoin has all the features that qualifies it to be called a digital currency.

it is divisible
its supply is scarce
it is a store of value
it is a means of payment
A unit of account

Although many people still appreciate it more as an investment, it is still a currency and it is slowing gaining general acceptance. Therefore, you should erase all doubts from your mind, the purpose for which Bitcoin was created still is still very valid.

legiteum

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Quote from: MainIbem on April 19, 2024, 01:48:38 PM

Quote from: we-btc on April 17, 2024, 08:26:41 AM

I ask this question because I wonder what Bitcoin will become now that the financial institutions and meme coin advocates have taken over.

If Bitcoin is not peer-to-peer electronic cash then how do you see it?

I wonder where you go the idea that bitcoin is no longer a digital currency, If bitcoin is no longer a digital currency then what do you think it is?
Also I think your choice of topic is not accurate because I'm still trying to figure out if you're asking a question or saying it cause it's true. If your question is whether bitcoin is no longer a digital cash the answer is no, it can't be held physically like other fiat currency or gold, bitcoin is a digital currency created by Satoshi and would continue to be a digital currency whether the financial institutions or meme coin advocates have taken over like you claim, but I also doubt if that's possible cause it's the most superior cryptocurrency and can't be controlled by any government or institution.

I think what the OP meant is that it is not a mainstream digital currency that people would want to use to buy everyday things. It's not impossible to buy your lunch with Bitcoin, but almost nobody would want to do that since it's impractical.

All that, and also that Bitcoin is, defacto, almost never used that way today, and is instead an investment instrument like gold, stocks, or whatever.

You could also use shares of AAPL or slivers of gold as a trading mechanism too, but... why would you?

MainIbem

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Quote from: we-btc on April 17, 2024, 08:26:41 AM

I ask this question because I wonder what Bitcoin will become now that the financial institutions and meme coin advocates have taken over.

If Bitcoin is not peer-to-peer electronic cash then how do you see it?

I wonder where you go the idea that bitcoin is no longer a digital currency, If bitcoin is no longer a digital currency then what do you think it is?
Also I think your choice of topic is not accurate because I'm still trying to figure out if you're asking a question or saying it cause it's true. If your question is whether bitcoin is no longer a digital cash the answer is no, it can't be held physically like other fiat currency or gold, bitcoin is a digital currency created by Satoshi and would continue to be a digital currency whether the financial institutions or meme coin advocates have taken over like you claim, but I also doubt if that's possible cause it's the most superior cryptocurrency and can't be controlled by any government or institution.

Solosanz

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Bitcoin is no longer digital cash if you can't buy in fraction instead you need to buy the whole coin and Bitcoin become tangible asset i.e. real coin. Since there's no change in Bitcoin, Bitcoin is still a digital cash, as long as you spend it to buy something online, you're already use Bitcoin as a digital cash.

Even you haven't use Bitcoin as a currency, but there are some people use it.

Kelward

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Quote from: we-btc on April 17, 2024, 08:26:41 AM

I ask this question because I wonder what Bitcoin will become now that the financial institutions and meme coin advocates have taken over.

If Bitcoin is not peer-to-peer electronic cash then how do you see it?

Bitcoin remains a digital cash and a store of value, it's not dragging positions with financial institutions or memecoins, it's in a class of it's own and has proven it's reputation as a means of payments and as an investment asset. Some businesses and individuals accept it as an alternative currency for payments, the only thing that has not made it's acceptance to gain the popularity that it deserves is the slow adoption rate, but it's less than two decades old compered to fiat that has always been here. Although I can't deny that Bitcoin is used more as an investment asset, investors buys and sells it for profit, all the same, you can't compare memecoins to Bitcoin.

synchronym

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Generally it depends on the use of bitcoins if you can use bitcoins correctly then you can definitely be successful with bitcoin investment no matter what the market is. Many times it is seen that they invest without understanding well about Bitcoin or make a hasty decision. Due to hasty decision, they suffer a lot in investing in Bitcoin. For them, it may be better to invest in alt coins or different coins than Bitcoin. But I will always advise to invest in bitcoins from other coins because if we can check the bitcoin market and invest with patience and long term plan then surely we will get proper success through bitcoin investment. Many times it is seen that even big investors lose patience. Of course, patience is very important in our investment. We should not lose patience.

Ayers

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Quote from: Pandu Geddon on April 18, 2024, 10:48:55 PM

Quote from: ancafe on April 18, 2024, 10:41:43 PM

Quote from: oktana on April 18, 2024, 05:57:07 PM

What you should understand is that Bitcoin doesn’t care if there are other altcoins being used for other purpose or even being misused. No matter what, Bitcoin is always the same Bitcoin that Satoshi wrote in the whitepaper. Nothing can stop it from being the peer-to-peer electronic cash, not even if it were to be banned in many countries. You can’t stop being a human being. Right? It’s the same thing here.

That's true because even though many countries ban bitcoin it won't change the essence of peer-to-peer electronic currency. Bitcoin was not created to limit anything and Bitcoin is actually an alternative for all humans if they are able to see its function. Sometimes people see things from a different point of view and make assumptions that do not match the facts. But the problem is that we think too negatively so that the level of rationality of something that has been tested is simply ignored without real consideration.

Bitcoin has gained ground all over the world and it not only functions as a currency, there are still some countries that see bitcoin as an investment asset to run with freedom. This shows that there is not a complete ban and although some countries are still opposed. So thinking rationally is an effort to create awareness regarding financial freedom in bitcoin.

although quite a lot of countries have implemented Bitcoin as an investment asset. but they will not remove the inherent definition of Bitcoin as a digital currency. no matter whether they legalize the use of Bitcoin as a transaction tool or not. If trading is carried out on a P2P basis by service providers or services with their customers, Bitcoin's function as a digital currency that provides financial freedom to its users is actually running.

Up to now, my country's government still calls bitcoin a digital currency, virtual currency, but they still prohibit people from using it as a payment method or currency. They just allow people to invest, treating it as a tradable commodity. Even though they still call it digital currency, we can't use it as its name suggests, so what does that mean?

I know that there are still some people who haven't given up on supporting bitcoin as a currency but I think that has failed. Not only because the government doesn't recognize it, but we also only use bitcoin as an investment instead of using it as currency. Not to mention problems like sudden increases in transaction fees and long confirmation times, bitcoin really cannot become a popular currency.

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Quote from: Cryptoprincess101 on April 18, 2024, 07:45:36 AM

Maybe you are actually the first person to let me know that financial institutions and meme coins advocates have taken over Bitcoin, I don't know how this sounds to you but just want to let you know that Bitcoin volatility is not a joke, and it is very ridiculous to say that meme coins and financial institutions have taken over like I don't still understand what you trying to say but maybe you didn't get your information from a reliable source.

Bitcoin still remains peer to peer medium of transactions without interference from a third party just like the motives for which it was created even though we are also using it as an investment platform but yet the sole objective is not defeated as it still remains the top modern day digital currency that is trying to find it's way to become the most preferred monetary system all over the globe as it's adoption continues to grow despite the low percentage.

It is basically a way to say that ETF situation has taken over the bitcoin market because they are buying in thousands, and retail investors are not buying that much, which means that it is a way of controlling the bitcoin market by those ETF companies that spends billions every week on bitcoin.

On the altcoin part of the world, the hype around meme projects are so high that people are acting as if we are talking about something that is making them insane amount of profit and they are acting as if this is normal. I personally believe that the mindset of "companies and meme projects took over" is not really impossible, it does make sense and a lot of people can see that, not going to agree, but they do trade a lot more compared to back in the day.

Pandu Geddon

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Quote from: ancafe on April 18, 2024, 10:41:43 PM

Quote from: oktana on April 18, 2024, 05:57:07 PM

What you should understand is that Bitcoin doesn’t care if there are other altcoins being used for other purpose or even being misused. No matter what, Bitcoin is always the same Bitcoin that Satoshi wrote in the whitepaper. Nothing can stop it from being the peer-to-peer electronic cash, not even if it were to be banned in many countries. You can’t stop being a human being. Right? It’s the same thing here.

That's true because even though many countries ban bitcoin it won't change the essence of peer-to-peer electronic currency. Bitcoin was not created to limit anything and Bitcoin is actually an alternative for all humans if they are able to see its function. Sometimes people see things from a different point of view and make assumptions that do not match the facts. But the problem is that we think too negatively so that the level of rationality of something that has been tested is simply ignored without real consideration.

Bitcoin has gained ground all over the world and it not only functions as a currency, there are still some countries that see bitcoin as an investment asset to run with freedom. This shows that there is not a complete ban and although some countries are still opposed. So thinking rationally is an effort to create awareness regarding financial freedom in bitcoin.

although quite a lot of countries have implemented Bitcoin as an investment asset. but they will not remove the inherent definition of Bitcoin as a digital currency. no matter whether they legalize the use of Bitcoin as a transaction tool or not. If trading is carried out on a P2P basis by service providers or services with their customers, Bitcoin's function as a digital currency that provides financial freedom to its users is actually running.

ancafe

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Quote from: oktana on April 18, 2024, 05:57:07 PM

What you should understand is that Bitcoin doesn’t care if there are other altcoins being used for other purpose or even being misused. No matter what, Bitcoin is always the same Bitcoin that Satoshi wrote in the whitepaper. Nothing can stop it from being the peer-to-peer electronic cash, not even if it were to be banned in many countries. You can’t stop being a human being. Right? It’s the same thing here.

That's true because even though many countries ban bitcoin it won't change the essence of peer-to-peer electronic currency. Bitcoin was not created to limit anything and Bitcoin is actually an alternative for all humans if they are able to see its function. Sometimes people see things from a different point of view and make assumptions that do not match the facts. But the problem is that we think too negatively so that the level of rationality of something that has been tested is simply ignored without real consideration.

Bitcoin has gained ground all over the world and it not only functions as a currency, there are still some countries that see bitcoin as an investment asset to run with freedom. This shows that there is not a complete ban and although some countries are still opposed. So thinking rationally is an effort to create awareness regarding financial freedom in bitcoin.

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