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Topic: NuBits are operating as a fractional reserve. - page 3. (Read 6807 times)

full member
Activity: 207
Merit: 100
Do you even know what proof is? Cheesy the peg is maintained with US dollars. there are exchanges that have NBT/USD trading pairs and that's where the peg is originally maintained. The NBT/BTC traiding pairs are just some random internet people doing arbitrage.
Where are those exchanges?   Huh

https://nubits.com/exchanges
for example:
https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-usd
https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-eur



http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nubits/#markets

there's no volume in the nbt/usd market on ccedk. the only markets are nbt/btc. i don't think its even close to 0% reserve theres not enough btc on the market, but they certainly have taking losses from their btc holdings. the proof is the trade data...
legendary
Activity: 1138
Merit: 1001
OK in the beginning I thought this here is an interesting subject, but now I understand that its yet another thread where one community member of a coin bashes on the community of another coin. Really sad, because the general topic is really worth debating. So thanks for not having a good discussion here, I'll consider other sources to get my info.

The thread is a bit loud for my liking & is also using the NuBits flaw to pump BitUSD which I don't like.

The facts are true though.

Many BitShares supporters are quite familiar with pegged assets and the systems behind them, because we've had to study them to confidently invest in BitShares. So we could say nothing and watch alt-coiners most likelt lose their money or we can prsent the facts and try to warn them.

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/15/Is-Fractional-Reserve-Banking-a-Ponzi-Scheme/

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13355.0

I'm not completely up to date on the NuBits forum, but from what I understand Jordan Lee designed NuNet to have zero counterparty risk and zero reserves. They're trying to create a market for liquidity providers, lots of people that will end up providing their own money for liquidity operations. Again, I'm not completely up to date, so try checking out the forum and make up your own mind. Check Jordan's post here about reserves...

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/regarding-reserves-and-fractional-reserve/1126

It baffles me people don't understand the risk of zero reserves.

His argument for not having reserves is false...

Quote
Some seem to think that 100% reserves are desirable and equate to solvency, while others (including myself) wish to avoid the use of reserves altogether to avoid counterparty risk

BitShares is able to provide an average of circa 300% collateral for BitUSD without counterparty risk.
sr. member
Activity: 650
Merit: 318
I'm not completely up to date on the NuBits forum, but from what I understand Jordan Lee designed NuNet to have zero counterparty risk and zero reserves. They're trying to create a market for liquidity providers, lots of people that will end up providing their own money for liquidity operations. Again, I'm not completely up to date, so try checking out the forum and make up your own mind. Check Jordan's post here about reserves...

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/regarding-reserves-and-fractional-reserve/1126
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
Do you even know what proof is? Cheesy the peg is maintained with US dollars. there are exchanges that have NBT/USD trading pairs and that's where the peg is originally maintained. The NBT/BTC traiding pairs are just some random internet people doing arbitrage.
Where are those exchanges?   Huh

https://nubits.com/exchanges
for example:
https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-usd
https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-eur

hero member
Activity: 656
Merit: 500
Do you even know what proof is? Cheesy the peg is maintained with US dollars. there are exchanges that have NBT/USD trading pairs and that's where the peg is originally maintained. The NBT/BTC traiding pairs are just some random internet people doing arbitrage.
Where are those exchanges?   Huh
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
This is further proof that the collateral backing nubits has been sitting as bitcoin, and has thus been severely hit by the 33% fall where thousands of bitcoin was dumped on the "trusted" custodians.

NUBITS IS INSOLVENT, THEY OPENLY ADMIT THIS.

NUBITS = FRACTIONAL RESERVE

Do you even know what proof is? Cheesy the peg is maintained with US dollars. there are exchanges that have NBT/USD trading pairs and that's where the peg is originally maintained. The NBT/BTC traiding pairs are just some random internet people doing arbitrage.
sr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 250
OK in the beginning I thought this here is an interesting subject, but now I understand that its yet another thread where one community member of a coin bashes on the community of another coin. Really sad, because the general topic is really worth debating. So thanks for not having a good discussion here, I'll consider other sources to get my info.
full member
Activity: 189
Merit: 100
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.

Jordan specifically said their *goal* is 0% reserves, which means they are really backing it with NSR's ability to inflate to buy back NBT

The main trading pair is NBT/USD. They hold USD to maintain the peg. Bitcoin can go to zero, it doesn't change the amount of dollars available for maintaining the peg of 1 NBT per 1 USD.

Right now they do, but again Jordan said their plan is to have NO reserves at all.

Quote
There are some reserves right now. My point is that because reserves equate to counterparty risk and are not necessarily useful in backing NuBits, we are aiming for 0% reserves,  not 100%.

So the only mechanism there to support nubit price if it starts falling is to NBT to NSR burn (equivalent to inflating NSR to buy back NBT), which is in the process of being implemented.

I think you misunderstood what Jordan might have meant by having no reserves. It means that the "reserves" are actually in use by the custodians to maintain the peg. There are no reserves just sitting somewhere in a vault waiting for a bad day. The latter would be just stupid. Instead, this money is constantly being used to maintain the buy side walls. I think you should clarify for yourself what exactly is meant by reserves. If you find that out, enlighten me too, please.

This is further proof that the collateral backing nubits has been sitting as bitcoin, and has thus been severely hit by the 33% fall where thousands of bitcoin was dumped on the "trusted" custodians.

NuBits = Fractional reserve
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.

Jordan specifically said their *goal* is 0% reserves, which means they are really backing it with NSR's ability to inflate to buy back NBT

The main trading pair is NBT/USD. They hold USD to maintain the peg. Bitcoin can go to zero, it doesn't change the amount of dollars available for maintaining the peg of 1 NBT per 1 USD.

Right now they do, but again Jordan said their plan is to have NO reserves at all.

Quote
There are some reserves right now. My point is that because reserves equate to counterparty risk and are not necessarily useful in backing NuBits, we are aiming for 0% reserves,  not 100%.

So the only mechanism there to support nubit price if it starts falling is to NBT to NSR burn (equivalent to inflating NSR to buy back NBT), which is in the process of being implemented.

I think you misunderstood what Jordan might have meant by having no reserves. It means that the "reserves" are actually in use by the custodians to maintain the peg. There are no reserves just sitting somewhere in a vault waiting for a bad day. The latter would be just stupid. Instead, this money is constantly being used to maintain the buy side walls. I think you should clarify for yourself what exactly is meant by reserves. If you find that out, enlighten me too, please.
sr. member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 253
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.

Jordan specifically said their *goal* is 0% reserves, which means they are really backing it with NSR's ability to inflate to buy back NBT

The main trading pair is NBT/USD. They hold USD to maintain the peg. Bitcoin can go to zero, it doesn't change the amount of dollars available for maintaining the peg of 1 NBT per 1 USD.

Right now they do, but again Jordan said their plan is to have NO reserves at all.

Quote
There are some reserves right now. My point is that because reserves equate to counterparty risk and are not necessarily useful in backing NuBits, we are aiming for 0% reserves,  not 100%.

So the only mechanism there to support nubit price if it starts falling is to NBT to NSR burn (equivalent to inflating NSR to buy back NBT), which is in the process of being implemented.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.

Any proof of this? From the internal discussion it's pretty clear that "trusted" nubot custodians are NOT hedging the BTC they got dumped on them.

Any proof of the opposite?
full member
Activity: 189
Merit: 100
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.

Any proof of this? From the internal discussion it's pretty clear that "trusted" nubot custodians are NOT hedging the BTC they got dumped on them.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.

Jordan specifically said their *goal* is 0% reserves, which means they are really backing it with NSR's ability to inflate to buy back NBT

The main trading pair is NBT/USD. They hold USD to maintain the peg. Bitcoin can go to zero, it doesn't change the amount of dollars available for maintaining the peg of 1 NBT per 1 USD.
sr. member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 253
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.

Jordan specifically said their *goal* is 0% reserves, which means they are really backing it with NSR's ability to inflate to buy back NBT
sr. member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 253
Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I read into both whitepapers it seems to me that both NuBits and BitUSD won't be able to keep up the pegging if and only if NuShares or BitShares respectively crash to zero value. I don't see how the BTS market rules are able to counteract this effect.

The idea is that by the time it gets to 0, all outstanding bitassets should have already been bought back and covered - you can't have the rug pulled out from under you except for truly catastrophic collapse where traders literally cannot react in time. With NSR you can have insolvency creep up on you without anyone noticing
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
This is exaggerated FUD that contains misinformation. Why on earth would the reserves to guarantee 1 USD peg to be held in bitcoin? That's just stupid. These reserves are mainly in USD and only a small amount is available in BTC.
sr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 250
Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I read into both whitepapers it seems to me that both NuBits and BitUSD won't be able to keep up the pegging if and only if NuShares or BitShares respectively crash to zero value. I don't see how the BTS market rules are able to counteract this effect.
full member
Activity: 189
Merit: 100
Shareholders of a dual currency with reserve have no incentive to actually use the reserve for its purpose. Since there is also no law that forces them to do it anyway, the reserve model is not applicable as long as the shareholders act as rational agents.

The backing has to be done within the system, and right now I don't see any project (neither NuBits nor BitUSD) which does this in a completely convincing manner. Although at least at NuBits those things are heavily discussed.

In total I agree with Omnivion, that it will be extremely interesting to see how these things turn out. However, I personally would like to see a dual currency succeeding, because they in fact fulfill a need.

BitUSD is fully backed within the system, you can see the status of the on-blockchain locked collateral here:

http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

You can see the orderbook for the collateral here:

http://www.btc38.com/trade.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

You can read how market pegged assets function here:

http://whatisbitusd.com/whitepaper/

Also 24H BTC/BitUSD volume on bter is now 80 bitcoin with a nice order book: https://bter.com/trade/btc_bitusd
sr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 250
Shareholders of a dual currency with reserve have no incentive to actually use the reserve for its purpose. Since there is also no law that forces them to do it anyway, the reserve model is not applicable as long as the shareholders act as rational agents.

The backing has to be done within the system, and right now I don't see any project (neither NuBits nor BitUSD) which does this in a completely convincing manner. Although at least at NuBits those things are heavily discussed.

In total I agree with Omnivion, that it will be extremely interesting to see how these things turn out. However, I personally would like to see a dual currency succeeding, because they in fact fulfill a need.
full member
Activity: 189
Merit: 100
Is this real news?
Btw i think its not. Because if they had millions of usd worth of btc dumped on them, then that means people bought nubits. which is good.
i think you are making FUD.

Yep, they had millions worth of BTC dumped on them. That means that when BTC went from 300 to 200, they held BTC and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in value.

If people try to get out of NuBits now, then they will suddenly find that there is not enough BTC to cover the bought NuBits at this lower price. Suddenly the buy wall will disappear and your NuBits will be worthless. The only way you can have a safe peg is if the collateral is locked on the blockchain where you can see it and evaluate the risk!

I'm absolutely making FUD, yes. But until there is cryptographic proof that NuBits' "trusted" custodians are solvent, then my FUD is true. NuBits is operating as a fractional reserve.
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