NXT cross chain transaction 3M to 5M bounty - page 2.

msin

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Quote from: ChuckOne on March 05, 2014, 06:05:34 PM

Quote from: msin on March 05, 2014, 04:50:00 PM

Quote from: ChuckOne on March 05, 2014, 01:27:10 PM

We also need to discuss how automatic we want to have CCT.

If we want everything (including creating BTC transactions), we somehow need to create them without the users direct intervention. Storing some private keys in the NXT blockchain is not an option.

Yes, agreed, I would say make it fully automatic

That would be the most convenient option, I know. But how to create a blank transaction without the private key of the user AND without revealing the secret necessary to perform the corresponding transaction on the other blockchain.

We have time to discuss this until AT and AE are up and running.

Yeah, that's the 3Mil Nxt question right there. Wink

jl777

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https://github.com/Coinffeine/coinffeine/wiki/Exchange-algorithm

Highly relevant

ChuckOne

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Quote from: msin on March 05, 2014, 04:50:00 PM

Quote from: ChuckOne on March 05, 2014, 01:27:10 PM

We also need to discuss how automatic we want to have CCT.

If we want everything (including creating BTC transactions), we somehow need to create them without the users direct intervention. Storing some private keys in the NXT blockchain is not an option.

Yes, agreed, I would say make it fully automatic

That would be the most convenient option, I know. But how to create a blank transaction without the private key of the user AND without revealing the secret necessary to perform the corresponding transaction on the other blockchain.

We have time to discuss this until AT and AE are up and running.

msin

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Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: ChuckOne on March 05, 2014, 01:27:10 PM

We also need to discuss how automatic we want to have CCT.

If we want everything (including creating BTC transactions), we somehow need to create them without the users direct intervention. Storing some private keys in the NXT blockchain is not an option.

Yes, agreed, I would say make it fully automatic

ChuckOne

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We also need to discuss how automatic we want to have CCT.

If we want everything (including creating BTC transactions), we somehow need to create them without the users direct intervention. Storing some private keys in the NXT blockchain is not an option.

annable

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any other detail??

swartzfeger

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Quote from: ChuckOne on March 04, 2014, 07:28:44 PM

Quote from: swartzfeger on March 04, 2014, 06:49:15 PM

Is this relevant at all to the discussion?

CoinWitness: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/really-really-ultimate-blockchain-compression-coinwitness-277389

That is really interesting, especially for AT: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nxt-automated-transactions-at-progress-and-discussion-463731
I sent CIYAM Open a PM on that. Thank you very much for that.

For CCT, as it builds upon AT and AE, we need should not need to bother with that as the 'dirty' work is done a layer underneath of us.

Chuck, there are two more posts similar to that one that I think are also relevant -- I am hunting them down.

I'm glad you forwarded that to CIYAM, because that's definitely beyond my pay grade.

ChuckOne

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Quote from: swartzfeger on March 04, 2014, 06:49:15 PM

Is this relevant at all to the discussion?

CoinWitness: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/really-really-ultimate-blockchain-compression-coinwitness-277389

That is really interesting, especially for AT: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nxt-automated-transactions-at-progress-and-discussion-463731
I sent CIYAM Open a PM on that. Thank you very much for that.

For CCT, as it builds upon AT and AE, we need should not need to bother with that as the 'dirty' work is done a layer underneath of us.

ChuckOne

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Quote from: gs02xzz on March 04, 2014, 01:24:45 PM

Quote from: ChuckOne on March 04, 2014, 12:26:14 PM

I need to leave now for an hour or so. So, I will leave with more material to discuss:

Introductory:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5462784

More detailed:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading

The basic idea goes as follows (publish = submit to the network):

1) Alice and Bob exchange unready transactions.

-> If Alice publishes a transaction, Alice will reveal a secret that Bob needs to publish his transaction

3) Alice publishes her transaction.
4) Bob can publish as well now.

This sounds like an autonomous contract to me. Whence a contract is established, as long as the parties in the contract do what they are supposed to do the contract will be executed in the order. I guess AT can play a role in it.

Sounds reasonable to me. Fees for executing the contract (we will pay per op) needs to be evenly split between the parties in order to prevent one party loosing more than the other one.

swartzfeger

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Is this relevant at all to the discussion?

CoinWitness: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/really-really-ultimate-blockchain-compression-coinwitness-277389

gs02xzz

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Quote from: ChuckOne on March 04, 2014, 12:26:14 PM

I need to leave now for an hour or so. So, I will leave with more material to discuss:

Introductory:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5462784

More detailed:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading

The basic idea goes as follows (publish = submit to the network):

1) Alice and Bob exchange unready transactions.

-> If Alice publishes a transaction, Alice will reveal a secret that Bob needs to publish his transaction

3) Alice publishes her transaction.
4) Bob can publish as well now.

This sounds like an autonomous contract to me. Whence a contract is established, as long as the parties in the contract do what they are supposed to do the contract will be executed in the order. I guess AT can play a role in it.

msin

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Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: ChuckOne on March 04, 2014, 12:15:46 PM

Quote from: msin on March 04, 2014, 12:14:02 PM

Quote from: alxx77 on March 04, 2014, 11:20:09 AM

Quote from: 4747...888 on March 04, 2014, 09:24:36 AM

Quote from: jl777 on March 04, 2014, 12:11:27 AM

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.

Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

But wouldn't it be better for NXT that everythig goes through AE as hub...?

It might be better for Nxt holders, but this is about doing a first, xchain tx.

Maybe, we need to clarify something:

There is no such thing as a crosschain transaction. This is crosschain trading.

Yes, good to clarify that. Would this be a good time to explore Nxt parallel block chain for this application?

ChuckOne

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Activity: 364

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I need to leave now for an three hour or so. So, I will leave with more material to discuss:

Introductory:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5462784

More detailed:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading

The basic idea goes as follows (publish = submit to the network):

1) Alice and Bob exchange unready transactions.

-> If Alice publishes a transaction, Alice will reveal a secret that Bob needs to publish his transaction

3) Alice publishes her transaction.
4) Bob can publish as well now.

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82

Quote from: msin on March 04, 2014, 12:14:02 PM

Quote from: alxx77 on March 04, 2014, 11:20:09 AM

Quote from: 4747...888 on March 04, 2014, 09:24:36 AM

Quote from: jl777 on March 04, 2014, 12:11:27 AM

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.

Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

But wouldn't it be better for NXT that everythig goes through AE as hub...?

It might be better for Nxt holders, but this is about doing a first, xchain tx.

Maybe, we need to clarify something:

There is no such thing as a crosschain transaction. This is crosschain trading.

msin

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Quote from: alxx77 on March 04, 2014, 11:20:09 AM

Quote from: 4747...888 on March 04, 2014, 09:24:36 AM

Quote from: jl777 on March 04, 2014, 12:11:27 AM

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.

Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

But wouldn't it be better for NXT that everythig goes through AE as hub...?

It might be better for Nxt holders, but this is about doing a first, xchain tx.

ChuckOne

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

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Quote from: alxx77 on March 04, 2014, 11:20:09 AM

Quote from: 4747...888 on March 04, 2014, 09:24:36 AM

Quote from: jl777 on March 04, 2014, 12:11:27 AM

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.

Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

But wouldn't it be better for NXT that everythig goes through AE as hub...?

That might be true for the pricing issue. That is the data-structures and API calls for placing/cancelling orders could be re-used:

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_API#Asset_exchange_operations

One thing that needs more consideration is the asset one could trade in case of CCT.

We would need two different types of assets: onchain-assets and offchain-assets.

Furthermore, offchain-assets need to be bound to certain code in NXT that allows trading with the specified asset. I.e., if a node wants to create a bitcoin transaction, code for creating such transaction is necessary. So is for every additional cryptocurrency as transaction formats and API of the regarding networks can differ.

All AE API calls would need to act according to the specified asset type. Is there a flaw in my logic?

ChuckOne

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Quote from: 4747...888 on March 04, 2014, 09:24:36 AM

Quote from: jl777 on March 04, 2014, 12:11:27 AM

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.

Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

Alright, I would focus on this very use case first as 'NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain' might be very complex both in implementation and understanding. So would make this delicate feature very error-prone.

Let's if we can find a way to do the pair 'NXT <-> BTC' first. Generalization should be easy when considering BTC as a replaceable asset.

ChuckOne

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Quote from: l8orre on March 04, 2014, 02:10:47 AM

Hea guys - I'd like to be on board with this too. I am getting my client finished, and then there will be a dedicated thing for this.

Current status on the AE client is that I have moved the server requests to POST and also included the latest three new api calls. The one thing that is making trouble is using https and POST - this means that I can't use web-wallets yet. But it occurred to me that that is a rather special case, and for using the AE you rather wnat to run YOUR nxt on your local node, so this can wait.

I have also created a proper QAbstractTableModel for display in table widgets. This was tough, but I have one now, and I can just replicate it for all OB tables. Will be a bit of work, but not serious.

So - AE client will be available soon!

James - sorry that I haven't had time to run dogecoind yet - but I'll catch up..

best,
l8orre

Welcome.

Great. I see there is much support for CCT.

Post your ideas regarding CCT here.

alxx77

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Quote from: 4747...888 on March 04, 2014, 09:24:36 AM

Quote from: jl777 on March 04, 2014, 12:11:27 AM

Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that Mr 47...88 wants NXT to be able to trade crypto to crypto within NXT.

Atomic crosschain is by definition NXT blockchain <-> BTC blockchain (or other pair).
It is not NXT blockchain <-> NXT AE <-> BTC blockchain.
If the first is impossible, please give the proof.

But wouldn't it be better for NXT that everythig goes through AE as hub...?

Nxtblg

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Quote from: indiamikezulu2 on March 04, 2014, 12:25:13 AM

Hey, guys!! I have posted here 'cause it's the current thread:

Mt. Barker Computers and Electronics in Western Australia is now accepting Nxt 'over the counter' for purchases.

We are 'indiamikezulu' (indiamikezulu dot com dot au), a hobby business devoted really to across-the-board cryptocurrency development in Australia rather than any particular crypto -- but we recognised the excellence of Nxt early on, hold coin, and are developing it 'on the ground.'

Actually, MBCE (my business partner's day job) is probably the only place in Australia that accepts more than two cryptos -- we're taking four.

Mark Blair (04 399 58791)

Well, that was quick! I'm amazed at how many Aussies are jumping on board the cyber train. You guys put us stodgy Canucks to shame Grin

Topic: NXT cross chain transaction 3M to 5M bounty - page 2. (Read 6884 times)