NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1081.

landomata

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1000

Quote from: swartzfeger on February 05, 2014, 05:31:28 AM

how is your basket currency (a Nxt asset?) derived from multiple issuers?

We would need to see which Asset's are traded in sufficient volumes over X amount of time before we could add them to any currency basket.

After a few months we should have enough data to put together these basket current assets together.

We could even have an AE Index asset.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

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Newbie

Quote from: pandaisftw on February 05, 2014, 05:27:33 AM

I don't know if this has been answered or not, but have multi-transactions been implemented yet? For example, I can send to 50 different addresses in one transaction.

Otherwise, wouldn't distributing dividends to asset holders be extremely expensive for the dividend dispenser (assuming they have a large number of stakeholders)?

It's very easy to add multiple transactions.

mnightwaffle

hero member

Activity: 1039

Merit: 507

Quote from: Damelon on February 05, 2014, 05:22:53 AM

Also: nxtchg: i will genuinely be sad to see you go. It's a bad thing to receive a death threat and never warranted. Hoping you will reconsider but understand your reasoning. All the best, whatever you decide!

!!
I'm missing something here from previous posts but
WOW that's crazy Undecided

my fav exchange gone Sad

I'll donate a few bucks to ya
take care

swartzfeger

full member

Activity: 350

Merit: 100

I'm thinking out loud here -- the last dozen pages or so have infected my brain.

Basket currencies.

You're the leader of a newly formed country and -- voila! -- oil is discovered beneath the presidential palace. Exxon, Halliburton, Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz come in and drill oil rigs across your land (setting up loans you can never hope to repay and forever cursing your countrymen to servitude, but that comes later in the story).

You decide to peg your new currency to a basket of USD, GBP and an X portion of bbl of oil/USD (currently $100/bbl). Cheney tells you oil's going to the moon, so this should help boost your currency.

how is your basket currency (a Nxt asset?) derived from multiple issuers?

Someone holding BTC wants to buy this new currency (10 min confirmation) from someone selling in NXT (instant). How can this not be gamed with three fluctuating assets in a basket with a disparity in confirmation times?

Or does party A wise up, ditch his BTC in favor of NXT and do a NXT<-basket->NXT exchange?

What am I missing here?

And is a basket currency -- or an asset pieced together from multiple issuers -- doable? We're not only talking about Alice trading for an asset from Bob, but an asset that's assembled in realtime from three separate issuers. So the buyer/seller need synced, but the issuers do as well.

Am I overcomplicating this?

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 05, 2014, 05:18:02 AM

Yes, override Transaction.Type.isDuplicate() to check for such duplicate transactions, trying to cancel the same order, similar to the way it is already done for alias assignment transactions.

Let's decide what a criterion to use for choosing a duplicate. We remove:

1. A transaction with lower fee
2. A transaction with earlier timestamp
3. A transaction that is received later

bitcoinpaul

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quote from: pandaisftw on February 05, 2014, 05:27:33 AM

I don't know if this has been answered or not, but have multi-transactions been implemented yet? For example, I can send to 50 different addresses in one transaction.

Otherwise, wouldn't distributing dividends to asset holders be extremely expensive for the dividend dispenser (assuming they have a large number of stakeholders)?

Fee will be lowered.

pandaisftw

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

I don't know if this has been answered or not, but have multi-transactions been implemented yet? For example, I can send to 50 different addresses in one transaction.

Otherwise, wouldn't distributing dividends to asset holders be extremely expensive for the dividend dispenser (assuming they have a large number of stakeholders)?

Damelon

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1010

Quote from: Emule on February 05, 2014, 04:57:54 AM

Quote from: NxtChg on February 05, 2014, 04:14:42 AM

Quote

Might I suggest that you do not hold your breath as you wait for the apology?

I obviously can’t stay in a community where four words and a stupid smiley makes somebody wish you death and don’t even think about apologizing (don’t bother doing it now in case your consciousness suddenly wakes up, it’s too late).

And I am tired of being one guy on the other side of everybody else. A cohesive community is much more important than stupid arguments.

So that’s the end for me.

Please withdraw all your money from the exchange, it will be closed in a few days.

Thank you to those people who said kind words.

And thank you to the people who were always nice to me, you know who you are, I am going to miss you.

seems like the filth′i·ness of "bo bird", "opticalcarrier", did it again, 4 person i see leaving cos of his filthy mouthing and treathening he is a real asset to your community

Could you quit using other peoples problems to create the impression they are connected to you?

It's a despicable tactic.

Fight your own fights.

Also: nxtchg: i will genuinely be sad to see you go. It's a bad thing to receive a death threat and never warranted. Hoping you will reconsider but understand your reasoning. All the best, whatever you decide!

Jean-Luc

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 05, 2014, 04:37:35 AM

It's not that simple, coz validateAttachment() will return true for 2 different unconfirmed transactions that cancel the same order. After one of them is confirmed another transaction will never be confirmed. This makes it very cheap to DoS nodes - just send 1000000 transactions that cancel the same order. If we included all such transactions into blocks then DoSing would be very expensive.

Is there another way to counteract the DoS attack?

Yes, override Transaction.Type.isDuplicate() to check for such duplicate transactions, trying to cancel the same order, similar to the way it is already done for alias assignment transactions.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: jl777 on February 05, 2014, 05:12:19 AM

If you really have any amount of NXT, then you should want the value to go up. Why not help in whatever way you can? Hey, donate 1% to NXTcommunityfund! That will show everyone that you really are big blue whale

He is a big blue whale. But he sits with bitcoins, not nxts.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 05, 2014, 05:06:52 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 05, 2014, 04:37:35 AM

It's not that simple, coz validateAttachment() will return true for 2 different unconfirmed transactions that cancel the same order. After one of them is confirmed another transaction will never be confirmed. This makes it very cheap to DoS nodes - just send 1000000 transactions that cancel the same order. If we included all such transactions into blocks then DoSing would be very expensive.

Is there another way to counteract the DoS attack?

The second invalid transaction will be removed when its deadline expires. I don't like including invalid transactions in the blockchain just for the purpose of preventing a theoretical attack. By that logic we shouldn't bother validating transactions at all. And once we allow invalid transactions in the blockchain, we can't change our mind in the future easily. And a DoS attack can be conducted just by making a sufficiently large number of http requests of the types that are expensive to process anyway, whether they create transactions or not, so we need a better way of dealing with those.

Ok. Then I need 1-2 days to add validations.

jl777

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1134

Quote from: Emule on February 05, 2014, 04:57:54 AM

Quote from: NxtChg on February 05, 2014, 04:14:42 AM

Quote

Might I suggest that you do not hold your breath as you wait for the apology?

I obviously can’t stay in a community where four words and a stupid smiley makes somebody wish you death and don’t even think about apologizing (don’t bother doing it now in case your consciousness suddenly wakes up, it’s too late).

And I am tired of being one guy on the other side of everybody else. A cohesive community is much more important than stupid arguments.

So that’s the end for me.

Please withdraw all your money from the exchange, it will be closed in a few days.

Thank you to those people who said kind words.

And thank you to the people who were always nice to me, you know who you are, I am going to miss you.

seems like the filth′i·ness of "bo bird", "opticalcarrier", did it again, 4 person i see leaving cos of his filthy mouthing and treathening he is a real asset to your community

So after all the tech discussion, this is the thing you decide to post on?

I dont understand you, I read your posts over in emunie-land and you made a lot of good points. I dont think you are like the clock that is right twice a day.

If you really have any amount of NXT, then you should want the value to go up. Why not help in whatever way you can? Hey, donate 1% to NXTcommunityfund! That will show everyone that you really are big blue whale

James

Jean-Luc

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 05, 2014, 04:37:35 AM

It's not that simple, coz validateAttachment() will return true for 2 different unconfirmed transactions that cancel the same order. After one of them is confirmed another transaction will never be confirmed. This makes it very cheap to DoS nodes - just send 1000000 transactions that cancel the same order. If we included all such transactions into blocks then DoSing would be very expensive.

Is there another way to counteract the DoS attack?

The second invalid transaction will be removed when its deadline expires. I don't like including invalid transactions in the blockchain just for the purpose of preventing a theoretical attack. By that logic we shouldn't bother validating transactions at all. And once we allow invalid transactions in the blockchain, we can't change our mind in the future easily. And a DoS attack can be conducted just by making a sufficiently large number of http requests of the types that are expensive to process anyway, whether they create transactions or not, so we need a better way of dealing with those.

mikesbmw

sr. member

Activity: 338

Merit: 250

Quote from: EvilDave on February 04, 2014, 09:34:40 PM

Guys:
Been waiting for a good bumper sticker design, got bored and did one myself:

279mm x 76mm, when printed.
Would like feedback on it, might be good to have it in the hands of the guys at Berlin conference if it gets the green light

Leave your feedback on the marketing thread here on BTT:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412243.530
or on Nextcoin.org:
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3540.15.html

Going to bed now, really.

I don't get all the dark themes.
It makes it look, well, dark/evil/bad/star wars

Personally I would make the theme MUCH brighter. Give it a light airy look.
One of the USP's IS green / lightweight after all.

Emule

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: NxtChg on February 05, 2014, 04:14:42 AM

Quote

Might I suggest that you do not hold your breath as you wait for the apology?

I obviously can’t stay in a community where four words and a stupid smiley makes somebody wish you death and don’t even think about apologizing (don’t bother doing it now in case your consciousness suddenly wakes up, it’s too late).

And I am tired of being one guy on the other side of everybody else. A cohesive community is much more important than stupid arguments.

So that’s the end for me.

Please withdraw all your money from the exchange, it will be closed in a few days.

Thank you to those people who said kind words.

And thank you to the people who were always nice to me, you know who you are, I am going to miss you.

seems like the filth′i·ness of "bo bird", "opticalcarrier", did it again, 4 person i see leaving cos of his filthy mouthing and treathening he is a real asset to your community

jl777

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1134

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 05, 2014, 04:43:00 AM

Quote from: jl777 on February 05, 2014, 04:39:19 AM

Will the caller get error code?

Depends on client software.

As long as it is possible for client to get error message, then I say prevent Dos attack is much more important than not charging fee from silly call. It seems the person was expecting to pay a fee anyway.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 05, 2014, 04:41:44 AM

Hm, I got only 10% of what u said. And I bet I got it wrong.

It actually is rather tricky to explain (so my fault at not explaining clearly enough) - but it is actually a very elegant solution to a very tricky problem and in order to do NXTCash I think we are going to need something very similar to this.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: jl777 on February 05, 2014, 04:39:19 AM

Will the caller get error code?

Depends on client software.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: CIYAM on February 05, 2014, 04:36:46 AM

@CfB - the "secret" doesn't unlock the bitcoins "on its own" but instead needs to be accompanied by a check (so no arbitrary 3rd party could come along and "steal" the bitcoin).

Basically person B has to provide a signed (but incomplete) tx to person A in order for A to be able to get the coin from B. Understand B won't do that until A has also provided him with the same (for the other chain) incomplete (but signed) tx (with the *same* SHA256 value being the "key point").

In order for A to get B's coin A will *have* to "publish" the "secret" (unless A also has B's private key) which then allows B to get the coin from A (due to the same secret being used for both scripts).

Understand that A cannot get *back* the coin (other than via the signed "nLockTime" refund) nor can anyone other than B *get* the coin as the coin is locked to a multisig address (with a clever script).

BTW - provided that A's refund timeout is a lot greater than B's there should be no "race condition" issue either.

Hm, I got only 10% of what u said. And I bet I got it wrong.

Well, look at it closer when will be implementing this in practice.

jl777

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1134

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 05, 2014, 04:37:35 AM

Quote from: Jean-Luc on February 05, 2014, 04:32:36 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 05, 2014, 04:04:04 AM

Btw, what do u think of the approach when dumb actions, like an attempt to cancel a non-existent bid order, r processed without sanity checks? The fee is paid, transaction is added to the block but the state is not changed.

I don't like the idea, at least in this case it is very simple to enforce such a check, in Transaction.Type.ColoredCoins.ASK_ORDER_CANCELLATION just add:

boolean validateAttachment(Transaction transaction) {
   Attachment.ColoredCoinsAskOrderCancellation attachment = (Attachment.ColoredCoinsAskOrderCancellation)transaction.attachment;
   if (Order.Ask.getAskOrder(attachment.getOrderId()) == null) {
   return false;
   }
   return Genesis.CREATOR_ID.equals(transaction.recipientId) && transaction.amount == 0;
}

It's not that simple, coz validateAttachment() will return true for 2 different unconfirmed transactions that cancel the same order. After one of them is confirmed another transaction will be removed from unconfirmed transactions list. This makes it very cheap to DoS nodes - just send 1000000 transactions that cancel the same order. If we included all such transactions into blocks then DoSing would be very expensive.

Is there another way to counteract the DoS attack?

If it prevents Dos attack then I think that is ok to be mean about charging for silly transactions. Will the caller get error code?

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1081. (Read 2761632 times)