NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 2230.

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

I just checked, it appears to divy up te balance base on the number of active peers. For example, I have 6 hallmarked nodes with the same account's hallmark (but different IPs in each hallmark) and 1 of the nodes sees 3 other hallmarked peers in the active peers list. since thats 4 total nodes (itself and the 3 peers) I do see my account balance split 4 ways in the balance show on each peer.

My question is, do the VPSs need to be unlocked with any particular account, or do they just need to have a good blockchain and good peers?

gbeirn

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:43:05 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:37:56 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:35:47 AM

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:33:54 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

I think we are thinking along the same lines:

Edit: and since it is unrealistic to un-hallmark all nodes our only option is to hallmark as many as possible to spread out the number of targets which can be DDoS'd....and we wouldn't want too many hallmarked nodes to stand out above the others since they would be the first targets. So maybe we all agree to setup nodes with similar weights?

Yes, many 100 Weight nodes, or any other small number will do. Someone should manage the donation fund for that purpose specifically and verify that hallmarked nodes with paid out amounts are indeed running with the paid out Weight value.

There needs to be a fallback mechanism in the code to allow for nodes that do not receive a response from hallmarked nodes to then request data from lesser and lesser weighted nodes.

Actually, manually verifying would be tiresome, there needs to be a script coded, that checks all payees of the Special public node donation fund and then verifies if that IP is running and verify its hallmark. Should be all doable with the API requests. I think Weight value of 100 is too large. We need tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of such nodes, in the future when NXT price is higher that'd be too generous. People need to support the network anyway, so paying 10 NXTs to hallmark is enough, what do you think?

Yes something smaller is a good idea for future proofing.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:40:42 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:37:37 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:35:02 AM

a node hallmarked with 100 nxt and a node hallmarked with 100,000 nxt would have the same priority with peers.

CfB, please confirm if this is true?
If true, it shouldn't be that way, I think?
More weight = more trust from peers approach is better?

The problem with this is that heavily weighted nodes are bigger targets to attack and when they get attacked, they disrupt the network to greater extent because they are being used as the main nodes.

True, there shouldn't be linear progression, but still more Weight value should mean more trust.
Otherwise, a rich enough attacker could set up thousands of hallmarked nodes and disrupt the network.
So a sort of balance needs to be worked out here.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: bitcoinrocks on December 23, 2013, 07:47:27 PM

Quote

If I unlock my account on my system at 2:00 and someone breaks into my system at 3:00, can they retrieve my private key?

Can anyone help me here? I'm trying to figure out if my private key can be stolen after I unlock my account.

Yes, ur private key may be stolen by someone who gets access to memory of Java Virtual Machine.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:37:56 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:35:47 AM

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:33:54 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

I think we are thinking along the same lines:

Edit: and since it is unrealistic to un-hallmark all nodes our only option is to hallmark as many as possible to spread out the number of targets which can be DDoS'd....and we wouldn't want too many hallmarked nodes to stand out above the others since they would be the first targets. So maybe we all agree to setup nodes with similar weights?

Yes, many 100 Weight nodes, or any other small number will do. Someone should manage the donation fund for that purpose specifically and verify that hallmarked nodes with paid out amounts are indeed running with the paid out Weight value.

There needs to be a fallback mechanism in the code to allow for nodes that do not receive a response from hallmarked nodes to then request data from lesser and lesser weighted nodes.

Actually, manually verifying would be tiresome, there needs to be a script coded, that checks all payees of the Special public node donation fund and then verifies if that IP is running and verify its hallmark. Should be all doable with the API requests. I think Weight value of 100 is too large. We need tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of such nodes, in the future when NXT price is higher that'd be too generous. People need to support the network anyway, so paying 10 NXTs to hallmark is enough, what do you think?

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: Anon136 on December 24, 2013, 01:40:58 AM

what port do i need to unblock for the client?

TCP port 7874 is the port for peer connections.

gbeirn

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:37:56 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:35:47 AM

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:33:54 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

I think we are thinking along the same lines:

Edit: and since it is unrealistic to un-hallmark all nodes our only option is to hallmark as many as possible to spread out the number of targets which can be DDoS'd....and we wouldn't want too many hallmarked nodes to stand out above the others since they would be the first targets. So maybe we all agree to setup nodes with similar weights?

Yes, many 100 Weight nodes, or any other small number will do. Someone should manage the donation fund for that purpose specifically and verify that hallmarked nodes with paid out amounts are indeed running with the paid out Weight value.

There needs to be a fallback mechanism in the code to allow for nodes that do not receive a response from hallmarked nodes to then request data from lesser and lesser weighted nodes.

Yes I agree, until we get the source code though we will have to make due the best we can. I think setting up many small hallmarked nodes will at least make it costlier for the DDoSing and buy the network time

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

what port do i need to unblock for the client?

*edit* not for loopback to access the gui but for incoming and outgoing connections to peers

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:37:37 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:35:02 AM

a node hallmarked with 100 nxt and a node hallmarked with 100,000 nxt would have the same priority with peers.

CfB, please confirm if this is true?
If true, it shouldn't be that way, I think?
More weight = more trust from peers approach is better?

The problem with this is that heavily weighted nodes are bigger targets to attack and when they get attacked, they disrupt the network to greater extent because they are being used as the main nodes.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: gbeirn on December 23, 2013, 07:29:56 PM

Just blocks.nxt

Both must be deleted, otherwise blockchain will be inconsistent.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:35:47 AM

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:33:54 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

I think we are thinking along the same lines:

Edit: and since it is unrealistic to un-hallmark all nodes our only option is to hallmark as many as possible to spread out the number of targets which can be DDoS'd....and we wouldn't want too many hallmarked nodes to stand out above the others since they would be the first targets. So maybe we all agree to setup nodes with similar weights?

Yes, many 100 Weight nodes, or any other small number will do. Someone should manage the donation fund for that purpose specifically and verify that hallmarked nodes with paid out amounts are indeed running with the paid out Weight value.

There needs to be a fallback mechanism in the code to allow for nodes that do not receive a response from hallmarked nodes to then request data from lesser and lesser weighted nodes.

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:35:02 AM

a node hallmarked with 100 nxt and a node hallmarked with 100,000 nxt would have the same priority with peers.

CfB, please confirm if this is true?
If true, it shouldn't be that way, I think?
More weight = more trust from peers approach is better?

gbeirn

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:35:02 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:26:07 AM

I just manually resynced all the nodes 20-30 mins ago.

Well, hallmarked ones got stuck at block 23547
bandwidth graph shows 5 mb/s ddos to them.

non hallmarked nodes sync well and are at block 23567 now.

so, yeah, we need thousands of small weight hallmarked nodes.
Unless CfB can offer other solutions.

Hallmarking might work if all nodes that were marked that had over a certain nxt balance. For instance, you could hallmark a node with 100 nxt, but a node hallmarked with 100 nxt and a node hallmarked with 100,000 nxt would have the same priority with peers. This would make running a zombie network more costly because each zombie node would be forced to have a 100 nxt hallmark.

edit:
nevermind, wrong post

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:33:54 AM

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

I think we are thinking along the same lines:

Edit: and since it is unrealistic to un-hallmark all nodes our only option is to hallmark as many as possible to spread out the number of targets which can be DDoS'd....and we wouldn't want too many hallmarked nodes to stand out above the others since they would be the first targets. So maybe we all agree to setup nodes with similar weights?

Yes, many 100 Weight nodes, or any other small number will do. Someone should manage the donation fund for that purpose specifically and verify that hallmarked nodes with paid out amounts are indeed running with the paid out Weight value.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:26:07 AM

I just manually resynced all the nodes 20-30 mins ago.

Well, hallmarked ones got stuck at block 23547
bandwidth graph shows 5 mb/s ddos to them.

non hallmarked nodes sync well and are at block 23567 now.

so, yeah, we need thousands of small weight hallmarked nodes.
Unless CfB can offer other solutions.

Hallmarking might work if all nodes that were marked that had over a certain nxt balance. For instance, you could hallmark a node with 100 nxt, but a node hallmarked with 100 nxt and a node hallmarked with 100,000 nxt would have the same priority with peers. This would make running a zombie network more costly because each zombie node would be forced to have a 100 nxt hallmark.

gbeirn

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: laowai80 on December 24, 2013, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

I think we are thinking along the same lines:

Edit: and since it is unrealistic to un-hallmark all nodes our only option is to hallmark as many as possible to spread out the number of targets which can be DDoS'd....and we wouldn't want too many hallmarked nodes to stand out above the others since they would be the first targets. So maybe we all agree to setup nodes with similar weights?

laowai80

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: opticalcarrier on December 24, 2013, 01:28:50 AM

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

I think that no matter what you set the Weight too, the Weight will show what your account holds now. And if you add more to that account, the Weight will reflect that accordingly. So there is a need to set up a special 'node' account and fund it with 100 NXT only. Maybe someone can set up a donation fund just for that and verify that people indeed set up hallmarked nodes with the amount they received from the donation fund by looking up the IP in the peers list.

2Kool4Skewl

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:27:18 AM

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:12:22 AM

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:08:01 AM

Hmmm, well I certainly want to setup more nodes but only if they will be helpful to the network. The logic behind not hallmarking nodes makes sense. I can either setup many un-hallmarked or move some NXT around and setup a few hallmarked ones. I'm off to bed since I'm quite tired. I'll review the thread tomorrow and maybe we can figure out a good way to proceed.

Maybe we can setup some servers with good DDoS protection in the mean time until we can figure out what to do.

Do NOT setup nodes that are not hallmarked. These unhallmarked nodes hurt the network because they only request information from hallmarked nodes and these hallmarked nodes are the only nodes servicing the network.

The type of DDoS protection you are referring to doesn't do any good with this type of DDoS attack. This DDoS attack is an application level attack against HALLMARKED nodes.

OK, gotcha, sorry it's way past my bedtime. So it appears we needn't have differentiation between types of nodes, meaning either they should be majority hallmarked or none at all...Correct?

Yes. The current problem is that network requests are not being distributed to healthy nodes. They are being concentrated on hallmarked nodes only regardless of their workload or sync status.

opticalcarrier

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

you guys are confusing me with weight.... i have 6 hallmarked nodes, each on a separate IP. if i set the weight to 100 on all of them, then doesnt each hallmarked node appear to have 1/6 of my hallmarked accounts balance?

gbeirn

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 24, 2013, 01:12:22 AM

Quote from: gbeirn on December 24, 2013, 01:08:01 AM

Hmmm, well I certainly want to setup more nodes but only if they will be helpful to the network. The logic behind not hallmarking nodes makes sense. I can either setup many un-hallmarked or move some NXT around and setup a few hallmarked ones. I'm off to bed since I'm quite tired. I'll review the thread tomorrow and maybe we can figure out a good way to proceed.

Maybe we can setup some servers with good DDoS protection in the mean time until we can figure out what to do.

Do NOT setup nodes that are not hallmarked. These unhallmarked nodes hurt the network because they only request information from hallmarked nodes and these hallmarked nodes are the only nodes servicing the network.

The type of DDoS protection you are referring to doesn't do any good with this type of DDoS attack. This DDoS attack is an application level attack against HALLMARKED nodes.

OK, gotcha, sorry it's way past my bedtime. So it appears we needn't have differentiation between types of nodes, meaning either they should be majority hallmarked or none at all...Correct?

Edit: and since it is unrealistic to un-hallmark all nodes our only option is to hallmark as many as possible to spread out the number of targets which can be DDoS'd....and we wouldn't want too many hallmarked nodes to stand out above the others since they would be the first targets. So maybe we all agree to setup nodes with similar weights?

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 2230. (Read 2761638 times)