Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 365. (Read 2761645 times)

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 13, 2014, 11:37:37 AM

We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity. We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin. For example. If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC. If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on. We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features. That will give them value.

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

I am not sure if there is any usurping going on. Using this logic, if we started trading BTC using NXT AE, then somehow this hurts NXT? I dont think that is what would happen. I think the value of NXT would be proportional to the sum of the values of all of the NXT AE assets plus the current value. So if nodecoins become worth something, then NXT becomes incrementally more valuable.

Also, you are not taking into account the fact that without NXT, there is no nodecoin. This also seems to be what BCNext wanted from what I can remember.

If people deposit $1 billion USD into NXT and we have that much USD assets floating around inside AE, would that suck all the value out of NXT?

If nodecoins became worth $1 USD each, would that suck all the value out of NXT?

James

Trying to catch up on thread but wanted to comment on Nodecoin. Why not make Nodecoin unlimited, is that possible in AE? That way if you want to use DAC, NxtCash (or any Nxt service) and you don't have nodecoin, you have to run the client and mine nodecoin. No one should have to purchase nodecoin from a miner.

Why nodecoin would be required to use Nxt services? That would kill Nxt, i believe.

No it wouldn't, how would encouraging users to run forging clients kill Nxt? These are optional features that have nothing to do with Nxt core. Nodecoin shouldn't be bought or sold, it should be mined easily by running a client, then you can actually use those nodecoins.

klee

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Quote from: klee on March 13, 2014, 11:32:00 AM

Is anything on NXT unit tested? EVER?

Dunno. Unit tests r not a panacea, more likely a modern trend between people who used to code for outsourcing. Good thing for u is that Jean-Luc decides how to test, not me.

Then why don't you write your code in assembly? Or binary?...

So Jean Luc, is the code Unit Tested?

igmaca

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nxt in max kaiser!! Shocked

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Vega on March 13, 2014, 11:36:06 AM

CfB, what's up with Lakshmi? It's still happening?

No. But James offered a better way.

L5Society

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If you raise the bid on nodecoins during a time of need, won't the hoarders just dump coins instead of new nodes being setting up? Should nodecoins expire after a certain amount of time, forcing holders to convert to nxt based on the relatively current need for nodecoins? Could this "expiration" be implemented as variable inflation, which spikes during times of need, diluting old coins which were mined during times when we didn't need them?

Letting miners mine during times that we don't really need them, and then letting them cashout during times of need is a bad idea.

If nodecoin offers the network value, we should support it, but make sure that the value of nodecoins is always aligned with what we receive from the miners. If the network grows naturally, and people run nodes to protect their nxt investments, then we won't need nodecoins anymore, and the value should go to zero, right?

People are way too heated in here, by the way. I don't know if its trolls or what. Makes me wish we had a forum built on nxt messaging with verified identities tied to nxt accounts. Yea, it would go against the values of a decentralized and anonymous currency, but I don't think we should let just anyone create a bitcointalk account and derail the valuable conversation with FUD.

GCInc.

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For public release on March 13th 2014

DGEX raises $470 000 USD in NXT crypto, pledges 500 000 NXT to developments

DGEX.com, the first and the only cryptocurrency exchange currently dedicated to the trade of the NXT crypto with Bitcoins, has raised 11 250 000 NXT of private investments in its recently closed Initial Virtual Offering.

During a 19-day period closing on March 10th, DGEX sold all of its allocated 108 900 virtual shares, accounting for 33% of its Virtual Share Capital and a corresponding share of future profits. Weekly dividend payments for shareholders commence on March 17th and The DGEX Private Virtual Shares begin trading publicly as one of the first peer-2-peer shares ever in the NXT Decentralized Asset Exchange when it becomes available in the NXT public cryptoledger during Spring 2014.

From the share proceeds DGEX is now pledging a total of 500 000 NXT (approx. $21 000 USD) to fund public and private developments related to the NXT network infrastructure and services. Projects can be viewed and entry applied at https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4385.0.html

Since its launch for the NXT cryptocurrency in November 2013, DGEX.com, operated by Graviton Capital, has processed trades for approximately 513 Million NXT (approx. 33000 BTC, $21M USD at the current rate of 0.000065 BTC / NXT) and serves 11.700 customer accounts worldwide.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: klee on March 13, 2014, 11:32:00 AM

Is anything on NXT unit tested? EVER?

Dunno. Unit tests r not a panacea, more likely a modern trend between people who used to code for outsourcing. Good thing for u is that Jean-Luc decides how to test, not me.

levinhostar

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Quote from: Passion_ltc on March 13, 2014, 08:07:45 AM

Guys, NXT is falling and you just talk about technical stuff, sure this is the basis but it's not all. I hope that the price won't be 0 when I return in April..

- Where is the SMF forum?
- Where is a good and professional homepage?
- Define an AE launch date, Mario will edit the date counter and make this public.
- Start a Reddit Marketing Campaign. The funds weren't allocate to someone of us. What is SalsaCZ doing? (I'm pretty sure MUCH in the background, but we need front actions)
- What are the plans of the 3 committees?
- What is about NXT.org?

You should do the following:

1.) Get NXT.org in your hands!
2.) Create a professional homepage there! (With: Get Started, Client Overview, Graphs from BTER/Cryptsy/Vircurex, the wiki, information about NXT (2 versions for normal guys, and for technical guys)..)
3.) Launch a SMF forum there with a few sections (General, Projects in development, Finished projects, Technical Discussion (Sub: Brainstorming), Promotion, META and 1 forum for each different languages)
4.) Integrate Wesleys Client (and the following program) into Jean-Luc's new NXT versions.
5.) Someone should code a program (for WIN, Mac OS, Linux) with the following functionality:
- Start it
- A small window appear and the NRS is starting in the background (the user can't see the terminal!)
-- You can see these things in the small window:
--- Overview of the blockchain (in percent, how far is it updated to the newest state. Nothing more! Just a number.)
--- Terminal log
--- A button to restart NRS
--- A button "Open Wallet" to open NRS (opens the browser and goes to localhost:7875)
--- A button "Open Tools" to open the admin tools
( Later you should add a save/open button to create/open a wallet.dat, in which is the password (encrypted) )

If you have this, even beginner can start NRS and handle it! They just have to start the program, click on the button and they are in the wallet. Nothing more.. (They even don't need to know that this is not a "wallet")

A few weeks/months ago I was planning to do all this against a payment. Nobody of the major stakeholders wanted to pay me. It's not a problem, but we need this ASAP!

#2

Vega

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CfB, what's up with Lakshmi? It's still happening?

Sebastien256

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Quote from: Touque on March 13, 2014, 11:32:09 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 11:27:47 AM

Quote from: Touque on March 13, 2014, 11:25:56 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:28:11 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:00:53 AM

Quote from: rickyjames on March 13, 2014, 07:23:20 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 11:27:47 AM

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

+1. Totally agree and I can tell why it is true.

The value of nodecoins solely come from the running the Nxt nodes (protecting the network) which actually has been run with Nxtcoins, for instance, running nodes have a change to win Nxtcoins as the rewards. Now on top of that the Nxtcoin rewards, nodecoins become the second rewards for that. It is a pure redundant thing to do so. If you want reward more for running Nxt nodes you can simple reward them more Nxtcoins as the transaction fees (in the future, with more business built on Nxt and more transactions running on the Nxt, the nodes/forgings will get much more reward fees event with the reduction of the transaction fee). Nxtcoins' value is from their protecting the Nxt network. The nodecoins' value is also from their protecting the Nxt network. To let nodecoins do so, you actually put nodecoins and Nxtcoins in the same position. The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have. Nodecoins will easily dilute Nxtcoins. We already have Nxtcoins to be used to protect the network and transactions and they are scarce. we don't need another coin to do the same work. We can create some other coins for creative business built on top of Nxt.

"The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have" . However, it is the Nxtcoins owners that set the price of nodecoin, not the inverse (because of NXT fee only). So I don't understand how nodecoin can dilute the value of NXT. Precise your thought please.

EDIT: IF the nodecoins' value is also ONLYcome from their protecting the Nxt network. My believe is that eventually, nodecoin value will simply go to zero when a lot of Nxt node will be in place.

If your prediction becomes true then Nxtcoins value will "simply go to zero" as well.

I don't think so, protecting nxt feature is valuable for the people running software on top of nxt.

I don't think so either. that is why nodecoins will be competing with Nxtcoins and dilute Nxcoins. This is like you hire A to do a job with a pay. Later you hire B to do the same job together with A but you don't pay B. In the beginning it may be cool with B because he needs some experience. But after a while he demands a pay for his work. You only have a certain amount of money. If you pay B, you have to pay A less.

the thing in red bold: i think it is a false hypothesis. nodecoin and NXT have different purpose, but they have in common to protect the network.

Unfortunately they are. You just said so.

I have edit the initial message with: If I remember well, I think James make nodecoin to make peer validation of the multigateway transaction. So nodecoin will have more value than just protecting Nxt network. Nodecoin protecting nxt network is just a plus I think.

And "Unfortunately they are" is not the case with NXT and nodecoin. Please make yourself an opnion by reading damelon blog from the beginning : http://www.nxtcoins.nl/50-2/
It is clear you are new here.

Note the blue text in my comment also.

Touque

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Quote from: Touque on March 13, 2014, 11:25:56 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:28:11 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:00:53 AM

Quote from: rickyjames on March 13, 2014, 07:23:20 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on March 13, 2014, 11:18:10 AM

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

+1. Totally agree and I can tell why it is true.

The value of nodecoins solely come from the running the Nxt nodes (protecting the network) which actually has been run with Nxtcoins, for instance, running nodes have a change to win Nxtcoins as the rewards. Now on top of that the Nxtcoin rewards, nodecoins become the second rewards for that. It is a pure redundant thing to do so. If you want reward more for running Nxt nodes you can simple reward them more Nxtcoins as the transaction fees (in the future, with more business built on Nxt and more transactions running on the Nxt, the nodes/forgings will get much more reward fees event with the reduction of the transaction fee). Nxtcoins' value is from their protecting the Nxt network. The nodecoins' value is also from their protecting the Nxt network. To let nodecoins do so, you actually put nodecoins and Nxtcoins in the same position. The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have. Nodecoins will easily dilute Nxtcoins. We already have Nxtcoins to be used to protect the network and transactions and they are scarce. we don't need another coin to do the same work. We can create some other coins for creative business built on top of Nxt.

"The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have" . However, it is the Nxtcoins owners that set the price of nodecoin, not the inverse (because of NXT fee only). So I don't understand how nodecoin can dilute the value of NXT. Precise your thought please.

EDIT: IF the nodecoins' value is also ONLY come from their protecting the Nxt network. My believe is that eventually, nodecoin value will simply go to zero when a lot of Nxt node will be in place.

If your prediction becomes true then Nxtcoins value will "simply go to zero" as well.

I don't think so, protecting nxt feature is valuable for the people running software on top of nxt.

I don't think so either. that is why nodecoins will be competing with Nxtcoins and dilute Nxcoins. This is like you hire A to do a job with a pay. Later you hire B to do the same job together with A but you don't pay B. In the beginning it may be cool with B because he needs some experience. But after a while he demands a pay for his work. You only have a certain amount of money. If you pay B, you have to pay A less.

the thing in red bold: i think it is a false hypothesis. nodecoin and NXT have different purpose, but they have in common to protect the network.

Unfortunately they are. You just said so.

klee

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Quote from: klee on March 13, 2014, 11:14:11 AM

Will it be Unit Tested?

It's a new feature. Unit tests r not so good at testing of new features. So, I think not.

Is anything on NXT unit tested? EVER?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: antanst on March 13, 2014, 11:22:15 AM

Come on, unit tests are useful precisely when testing new features. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant.

One does not simply unit test a system with eventual consistency.

The same test ran 2 times will return different results if tested in real conditions. Testing in artificial conditions is quite useless coz require to conduct other types of tests.

Sebastien256

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Quote from: Touque on March 13, 2014, 11:25:56 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:28:11 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:00:53 AM

Quote from: rickyjames on March 13, 2014, 07:23:20 AM

Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:28:11 AM

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

+1. Totally agree and I can tell why it is true.

The value of nodecoins solely come from the running the Nxt nodes (protecting the network) which actually has been run with Nxtcoins, for instance, running nodes have a change to win Nxtcoins as the rewards. Now on top of that the Nxtcoin rewards, nodecoins become the second rewards for that. It is a pure redundant thing to do so. If you want reward more for running Nxt nodes you can simple reward them more Nxtcoins as the transaction fees (in the future, with more business built on Nxt and more transactions running on the Nxt, the nodes/forgings will get much more reward fees event with the reduction of the transaction fee). Nxtcoins' value is from their protecting the Nxt network. The nodecoins' value is also from their protecting the Nxt network. To let nodecoins do so, you actually put nodecoins and Nxtcoins in the same position. The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have. Nodecoins will easily dilute Nxtcoins. We already have Nxtcoins to be used to protect the network and transactions and they are scarce. we don't need another coin to do the same work. We can create some other coins for creative business built on top of Nxt.

"The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have" . However, it is the Nxtcoins owners that set the price of nodecoin, not the inverse (because of NXT fee only). So I don't understand how nodecoin can dilute the value of NXT. Precise your thought please.

EDIT: IF the nodecoins' value is also ONLY come from their protecting the Nxt network. My believe is that eventually, nodecoin value will simply go to zero when a lot of Nxt node will be in place.

If your prediction becomes true then Nxtcoins value will "simply go to zero" as well.

I don't think so, protecting nxt feature is valuable for the people running software on top of nxt.

I don't think so either. that is why nodecoins will be competing with Nxtcoins and dilute Nxcoins. This is like you hire A to do a job with a pay. Later you hire B to do the same job together with A but you don't pay B. In the beginning it may be cool with B because he needs some experience. But after a while he demands a pay for his work. You only have a certain amount of money. If you pay B, you have to pay A less.

the thing in red bold: i think it is a false hypothesis. nodecoin and NXT have different purpose, but they have in common to protect the network.

Touque

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Quote from: Sebastien256 on March 13, 2014, 10:00:53 AM

Quote from: rickyjames on March 13, 2014, 07:23:20 AM